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The cliff is not completely fiscal. We are at a social cliff as well. People could easily vote for politicians who will exercise more fiscal responsibility and economic common sense. Alas, they do not. We can gripe all we want about the 30+ year politicians who spend, spend, spend but they didn’t take and keep their offices by force, people voted them in and continue to do so. Remember, we have a representative government. This is what people voted for.

The real question is why. The answer is in who largely controls the flow of information. Who educates our children in public grade schools and colleges all over the country? Who makes the television shows and movies they watch? Who are the news journalists and “shapers of opinion”? Leftists. Altruists. Activists. They have had a hold on these institutions for just about 50 years. As a result we have multiple generations who have been indoctrinated into a collectivist mindset. I don’t want to get into a whole bunch of socio-political philosophy but ultimately altruism is the root of collectivism which when applied politically is socialism. As long as our children are taught that the greatest thing they can do is surrender themselves to the collective we are doomed. They are taught that this is noble. It is not.

“Redistribution of wealth” is a common theme in politics today. It has been said that to claim the right to take wealth that one has earned and redistribute it to others is to claim the right to treat humans as chattel. Obama’s “spread it around” and “fair share” comments show his strong support for such. That is a form of forced altruism. It is seen as a moral duty to give yourself to others and has become enshrined in our laws and tax codes. Even if that were a moral position, which it is not, there isn’t enough money in existence to do that in perpetuity. We see that in this “fiscal cliff” deal.

The “fiscal cliff” show in Washington is merely theater. Nothing proposed by either party will fix anything. Doug is right, we are over the cliff and right now we are scrambling like Wile E. Coyote hanging in mid-air trying to get back to the safety of firm ground. You know what happens next.

HOLE ON JUST A MINUTE DOUG, CHILLL OUT. YOU SEEMS TO VERY UPSETED LIKE THOSE REPUBLICANS, ARE YOU A REPUBLICAN ? WE’RE NOT OVER THE CLIFF, AND I DOUBT IF WE GO OVER. BUT I CAN TELL YOU THIS MUCH, THOSE RICH/REPUBLICAN ARE GOING TO GET UP OFF THAT MONEY UP ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. THERE TAKING FROM THE POOR DAYS ARE OVER. EVERYTHING IS HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN AND THERE’S NOTHING YOU OR ANYONE ELSE CAN DO ABOUT IT. MY BEST ADVISE TO YOU WOULD BE; SET BACK AND ENJOY THE RIDE.

Thank you for stating that you wish to forcibly take other people’s money from them. You are no better than the trash who break into people’s homes. Matter of fact, you are worse. At least they have the nads to do it themselves.

The rich/Republicans are nothing but chattel to you, aren’t they, the fruits of their labor to extorted for your benefit? Congratulations, you got what you wanted. To own slaves.

You live in a “monster socialist state”?

The day has come that working and struggling people have had enough and finally things are turning around for the betterment of quality of life toward this nations people!! Finally these big corporations and millionaires people are going have to pay their shares of taxes as the rest of us as it should have been!! Republicans have got to change in a lot of ways as they found out this last election and they better call their members in congress to working with Obama to get our country back on track of a great economy before the 31st. We don’t want to be as Mexico and other countries for as classes-the rich and the dirt poor for we have got to have a strong middle class to get our nation with a great economy as history has proved to us!! Doug, fish must not be biting huh”??!!

Get a grip on reality, Crak. Yes, we do have a national income tax, and yes, the wealthy do pay more. You could have surely offered to pay extra for invading the wrong country for the wrong reason, but somehow I bet that you did not. Maybe you bought U.S. savings bonds instead, but I bet that you did not because the return on investment was too small. Climb down from your high hobby horse, forget your recitations from Ayn Rand and get to work.

Yassuh, Massuh. I sho do dat, suh! I works reeeeaaal hard! I be yo nummer one buck. You see!

Seriously, though, if you can’t differentiate between general taxation and redistribution of wealth then this conversation is a non-starter. And no, I would not touch US Savings Bonds.

This is about claiming the wealth of others as your own and using the force of government to take it from them, not taxes to build roads, schools, national defense, etc. In this country, an uneducated single mother earning $25K and on full benefits actually has a better standard of living and higher overall income than an educated single mother who earns $60K. The real kicker is that the latter pays for the former and does not get to enjoy the same standard of living. That, sir, is morally repugnant. It is tantamount to slavery as the latter if forced against her will by law to surrender the fruits of her labor to be used to benefit another.

You don’t like Ayn Rand? How about Thomas Jefferson, then?

“To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of
his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or
whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to
violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to
everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by
it.”

Or maybe James Madison?

“[T]he government of the United States is a definite government,
confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments,
whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative
duty of the government.”

John Adams, maybe?

“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as
sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and
public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou
shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of
Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it
can be civilized or made free.”

Liberty is liberty, no matter who preaches it.

Your illustration refering to two single mothers leaves out so many variables, that it’s essentially worthless. Your quote attributed to TJ is nowhere in his writings. Your quote attributed to JM is taken out of context. Your quote attributed to JA was actually an attempt to argue AGAINST popular sovereignty. Your nonsense about educators and the media is laughable. Your notion that because you can’t force your will on others or deny others’ freedom is somehow, theft of your liberty is selfish and dumb. One thing you were right about though, was the idea that there is a redistribution of wealth. It’s just going in the opposite direction; middle to top.