Posted by concernedrn (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 5:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As a concerned RN, I want to be first and foremost to say that the pay cut was excruciating, especially since we don't have good base salaries as it is. For the more experienced, losing PERS a year or less before it is their time to retire is enough to push anyone over the edge. PERS is the only benefit left for employees; In 5 years, we've had one raise and it was 3%, now they have taken 5%. Why does administration wonder why employees are leaving? Does anyone expect us to continue a good work ethic with such poor pay and poor morale? We found out from people on the street and the newspaper that we were to receive a paycut. No one at the hospital had the guts to allow us knowledge of impending doom. They told the few people who were informed of the meeting of the pay cuts, and the others found out in the newspaper. The hospital won't have to worry about closing due to funds, because after all this settles, there won't be anyone left to work.

Posted by fire39212 (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 7:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As bad as it all is....There are two choices for the workers either stay or go.....

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I bet few, if any, other businesses do 136 million dollars worth of business in a year.

Don't the city employees also participated in PERS? Why not call for PERS to be ended for everyone participating in it?

And didn't half that money in PERS come from employee contributions? And isn't a large part of that money in PERS held in Treasury notes and various bonds, so places like Natchez can build walking trails with plaques that say things like "This is an old building" and "This is another old building, a little different from the other one" and "This is yet another old building"?

To attack the retirement system as the cause of NRMC's slow death is not really honest, at least not in the way it is being done in this article. Why does the Democrat have this tendency to attack working people, who pay the taxes to support all the wild and silly schemes the Democrat pushes at every opportunity from its pages? I've noticed that in a few other articles over the years.

The numbers in this article may not even be right since they are approximations. The public has no way of knowing if the hospital contributes a full twelve percent of the alleged 600,000.00 biweekly payroll or not, because the Democrat hasn't printed the hospital's financial report or told the people where they can look at it, just like the Democrat never does articles on the city's or the school district's CAFR. No, the Democrat only writes articles asking the people who work to give up more of their money in taxes, pay cuts, and retirement cuts.

Do Democrat employees have any kind of retirement plan? If you do, how about giving up yours as an example of true community service, since the Democrat seems to be some sort of quasi government entity. Who wrote this article? was it Walter Brown or a member of the hospital board, or one of the supervisors?

Posted by dedicatednurse (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 8:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What else is the hospital going to take from us? Let's see...I already have to work through my 2 fifteen minute breaks almost everyday I work. Some days I don't even get a lunch except to hurry and eat at my desk while still answering the phone and dealing with call lights, etc. This is an outrage to take the only thing left NRMC had to offer that was worth working like a dog with understaffed areas and all while taking a pay cut. Just because management could not manage money. Who is going to staff the hospital when everyone leaves? I hope there are some prospective students graduating in May that can work in specialty areas and other high risk areas right out of school.

Posted by dedicatednurse (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yeah, Natchez Democrat. Why don't you stop offering any benefits and see how many loyal people stay working for you. The article was a low blow to the hospital employees. Well, I'll never buy a subscription to your paper, that's for sure. You know I probably couldn't afford it since my pay was cut and now when I retire you don't want me to have my retirement that is due to me.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The ideal situation dedicatednurse, from the local traditional point of view, would be for all of you lower level employees who do the work to do it for free, and to take a second job to feed yourselves and keep a roof over your head. Or maybe the Democrat would let you sleep in the kitchen, or one of the storerooms, and eat the leftovers from the patient's meals.

Posted by triscuit (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with EnKiKur. As much as I think the Democrat serves a valuable purpose in the community for calling attention to atrocities that would otherwise be swept under the carpet, they didn't convince me that the payments to PERS constitute a "hemmorhage." Twelve percent is not an unreasonable employer match to a retirement plan.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, triscuit, if that twelve percent were to be freed up from the retirement plan it would be sucked up into someone else's pocket faster than a FEMA check at Isle of Capri.

Posted by sandyman7 (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 8:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

That peice in the ND is just a normal thinking of a normal republican's mind set, whether the writer is or not , That is to take benefits away from workers so the top fat cats can still get there huge salaries...The problem with the hospital isn't the workers salaries, its the mis management of the hospital its self!!The management has turned Regional into a " CHARITY " hospital....That is why it is so far in debt...Until they turn that around , it is doomed for destruction....

Posted by snatchez (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

does the hospital also pay social security on top of the retirement system. I have a 401K that matches up to 5% and i was told that was a good retirement. If the hospital pays social security and pers that might be high. Who pays for the hospitalization? Does the county contribute to the PERS or social security? I think someone should tell us that.

Posted by county123 (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 8:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PERS is NOT the only thing causing NRMC's problems. Look straight at the administration and poor decision making over the years.

Anyone been reading the Neshoba Democrat? The Neshoba County Hospital is county owned and managed by Quorum just like NRMC. Their Quorum CEO & CFO left recently also.

That hospital was suffering a major loss each year but they too claim to have made a profit last year, just as NRMC had been reported.

Quorum has not produced or allowed an audit on their books to back up this revenue. The audit is three months over due... What are they hiding there in Neshoba County and why did their CEO & CFO leave if things are going so well?

Will they be the next Quorum run hospital to file bankruptcy now that NRMC has opened the door with the passage of the law in Mississippi?

Quorum's pattern seems to only look for short term, not long term solutions, oh and to get their paycheck no matter what, even if the hospital employees have to take a pay cut to pay them.

And what about the employees? As I understand it under the bankruptcy law, the creditors will eventually get paid what's due to them, they will just have to wait longer to get it. Has anyone heard anything about the employees getting their 5% back anytime? Do they get what's owed to them?

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sandyman, we don't even know if it is true that uncollected bills are a very large part of the problem, that is just what the Democrat printed without any substantiation to date.

We also don't know how much of that uncollected balance is overbilling, as hospitals are very given to do. And we don't know how much has gone into that hospital from paying patients who were overbilled.

All we have seen is a few random numbers and the conclusion that the only people who should be held accountable for the 2.5, 7, or 25 million dollars (whichever it is, the number seems to change a lot) are the patients and employees. Management has no accountability whatsover.

Also, the hospital was created as a public hospital to care for people who couldn't get care elsewhere, so everyone needs to get off that charity bandwagon. The fact is that this newspaper and its readers by and large promote all sorts of programs that involve involuntary charity. A hospital is one area where even I agree a little charity may be in order.

Posted by gemccull (Gary McCullars) on April 3, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Interesting take on the hospital woes, ND.

Let's see, $113MM billed for services and collected about than $52MM ( http://www.natchezdemocrat.com/news/2008... )

It just seems to me that some aggressive collection for services rendered would be one possible solution to the hospital woes.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think a Ferriday City Hall style audit is in order. Statewide of Quorum, that is.

Posted by Rhino (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think it's important to mention that PERS is mandatory for full time employees. We have to contribute to the PERS retirement. While PERS is a very good retirment program and the last good benefit we have left, I don't think it's fair to take something away that the hospital made us contribute to in the first place.
I think the fairest thing to do is to leave the ones who are in PERS alone and all new employees join a 401k. Maybe even the ones who are not vested, which is 4 years in PERS, should be made to join a 401K as well. This is the way Forest General in McComb handled things when they got out of PERS. The most experienced employees who have been here the longest are staying for one reason and that's PERS. You take that away and you loose the best of the lot.

And always thanks for your wonderful support Natchez Democrat. For once can you please try to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

After International Paper closed down, many ex-employees looked back on the time when they were allowed to vote on "whether or not" to accept a cut in pay being offered by a company intrested in purchasing the mill. Hindsight is 20/20, as the old saying goes, and if they had it to do over, I'm sure that many of those employees would change their vote. Just think of it this way, something is better than nothing, but it seems that some just have to learn that the hard way. If you still have a job, imho, you should stop complaining and grumbling, and appreciate what you have, before you end up unemployed and unable to pay your bills. It makes good sense to thank God regularly that you have a job.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Rhino, do PERS contributors also pay social security? I've heard they don't, and I wonder.

Because if you don't pay social security, if you switch to a 401k the hospital will have to make a contribution to social security as well as a contribution to the 401k. Where will the savings be? Wouldn't the social security contribution actually be more than 12%?

Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 10:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have told you people from the start that someone cooked the books at this hospital. It is a shame, crying shame at what has transpired here and what the employees are having to go through. This is almost like when armstrong was about to close and people were worried they might not get their retirement after many years of hard work and most didn't. I can promise everybody that the Democrat will not report what is going on here but only what they are told by a crooked board or some lawyers who are trying to cover for them. Maybe someone needs to contact the Clarion Ledger or the D.A office in Jackson to look into this for the rest of the story. Only, Only! in Natchez can someone cook the books for 25 million and we have a paper that puts fluff and disrespect to the employees out like this while the top dogs are whisked away. My friends I have said before this hospital isn't in this shape because of parents with runny nose kids with tummy aches didn't pay their bill. I feel for the people who are working FOR LESS in more or less a wasteland of mismanagement and corruption. Some business's can operate for a short while with low moral, NOT A HOSPITAL! What happens when lawsuits start hitting them for malpractice or because the wrong medication is given to a patient or Democrat employee by a overworked low morale nurse. This is a TRAGEDY! If the Democrat doesn't get more involved in helping out the people in Natchez by doing some investigative reporting and putting some light on the goverment here, the mismanagement of the hospital board, and the good ole boy back room deals that have crippled Natchez, all the democrat will be reporting is more business closures and more for the record reports. I just can't believe there is not more outrage from the Democrat! There is not much left to go around!

Posted by county123 (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's another Quorum run hospital in the midsts of financial crisis, this one is in Sturgis, Michigan.
Read more below:

http://sturgisjournal.com/articles/2008/...

There's also a reference to previous court filings against Quorum for misrepresenting financial conditions:

http://securities.stanford.edu/1008/QHGI...

Is there more to this pattern than we are witnessing here in Adams County?

Posted by triscuit (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, I hope the "PERS is a hemmorhage" idea wasn't fed to a Natchez Democrat staffer by a board member with an agenda. It's a popular idea in our society to increase profits by lowering salaries and cutting benefits, but truly if a company or agency is ailing that much, they have bigger problems and these measures will only provide temporary relief.

Posted by NoWireHangers (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think the Attorney General's office needs to investigate to see if there was any money creatively funneled out of NRMC within the last 10 years. I am an employee at NRMC and heard many rumors about two sets of books, creative financing by a member of the board and the hospital CEO who both restored their homes with NRMC money, needless overtime paid(in the past) to nurse managers who CHOSE to work overtime to earn alot of money instead of hiring nurses to fill in the shifts and help with the short-shifting; now nurse managers are supposedly paid a quarterly bonus for keeping the overtime down; can you imagine what it does to morale to know that you are working short-shifted and with less staff than you need to provide the best care you can to your patients and your nurse manager is receiving a bonus off your hard work? An easy way to siphon money out is to have construction projects. Needs to be looked at very closely. Who got the contracts and where did the money go? I think the hospital attorney, Walter Brown, needs to go as well. He has his finger in too many pies in this town. Someone, maybe the Democrat(?), needs to get to the core of this story and find out what really has happened to NRMC and where the money really went.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I looked it up, and PERS contributors do not pay social security, so using the precise numbers provided by the Democrat and an application of Natchez Economics wherein one advertising tax dollar is promised to return a 900% increase per year, I make the following conclusions.

Do away with PERS for the hospital and that saves 1.8 million per year.

Now the hospital must pay a 7.65% social security (forget that it is really the hospital customers who pay the hospital contribution of PERS, and who would pay the hospital Social Security contribution), and the hospital would be paying 1.2 million a year in SS contributions, for a savings of 665,000.00 a year (forget again it is the customers who pay these contributions) at the expense of the hospital employess (who are guilty of great greed, while managment is a helpless victim of greed).

But, then one must also calculate the difference in pay retirees will have to spend in the local economy, and Natchez Economics has told us, in these very pages, that every dollar spent locally multiplies by 3 to 7 times (somehow), so might there not be a net total loss to the Socialist Republic of Natchez if this plan is carried out? It requires much more investigation, and a new board and committee and a couple of subcommittees, and Walter Brown can represent the board; clearly though, further investigation is required.

I agree there is a story related to PERS, and in my mind it is this. Why is there a state law that mandates that a total of 19.1% of the money spent on wages and salaries for public employees in Mississippi must be directed into capital markets and Treasury notes overseen by a plethora of advisors who are also brokers? That would make a really good story for someone with connections to Capitol Hill up in Jackson- how about an explanation of this phenomenon?

Posted by Rhino (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur: Yes we do pay Social Security also in addition to our PERS.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hmm, I looked at the PERS site and it seems to say it takes the place of social security...are you sure? Maybe they are doulble dipping on you. How much do they make you contribute to PERS?

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

is a defined benefit plan. It provides a retirement benefit for public employees after attainment of a certain age and/or completion of a required number of years of service. This system combines the benefits of the Social Security Program with a supplementary state annuity program to give employees a state retirement program. Under this defined benefit plan, the benefit you receive at retirement is based upon a benefit formula.

Posted by Rhino (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We are eligible for SS even after we get our 25 years and start recieving our PERS. Got paid today and on my stub my SS was $93.67 and my PERS was $121.23. PERS is figuered by a certain percentage of what you earn but I can't remember the exact number right now.

Posted by gemccull (Gary McCullars) on April 3, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rhino, you gross about $1,500 on a bi-weekly payroll. Social Security at the level would be about the $93.57.

So you are contributing about 8% or $121 to PERS and the hospital is doing a 50% match?? Is that how the 12% figure is derived according to the paper??

Posted by citybudget (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The employee's portion of PERS is 7.25% and yes we do pay FICA and Medicare.

Posted by signmypaycheck (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 2:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This editorial is ridiculous! In the first place, anyone interested in what is happening at NRMC will do their homework and look at who is running the hospital, Quorum, and next who controls Quorum, the Board. If you will check out the info on the web, you will find numerous suits against Quorum for Medicaid fraud and "numbers on paper" not matching up. Just read a little....they paid the government $77.5 million dollars for Medicaid fraud in just one claim. There are others...and I everytime I have ever applied for a job, I am asked for references. Did no one check out these people!? The employees have known for YEARS what the problem is. Quorum! When these people make the salaries that they do, do you think THEY take a pay cut? How much of a difference do you think this makes in their lives! We have good hospital workers that now, thanks to the PAYCUT, are barely making minimum wages. A huge management company that has bankrupted so many hospitals walks away from yet another wrecked hospital, and all you can think of is the retirement plan has caused the problem.......?! Wake up!

Posted by fire39212 (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 3:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well here are a few interesting things i found out yesterday..

The hospital paid 670,000.00 to have the parking lot paved for the Dr.'s Pavilion....They also rent the unocuppied floor that they have...

Things that make you go HMMM!!!

Posted by triscuit (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I keep coming back to this article, every time I think about it I'm just amazed that the Democrat would draw this conclusion. I am blown away. What the hospital, or any employer, is saying when they make this payment to PERS is that the individual employee is worth their salary plus 12 percent. Now if my employer suddenly decides I'm not worth the 12 percent, what is that but just another paycut? This is a BENEFIT belonging too the employee, promised at the time of engagement, not a "deep, dark financial wound" or a "cash hemmorhage." It is not what is "killing" the hospital. If PERS suddenly went bankrupt and couldn't pay retirees what they promised, then there'd be something to complain about. But to examine the payroll/benefits piece of the pie (especially the portion thereof that affects all employees equally) for where things went wrong at the hospital and how to fix them is ludicrous. If the hospital wanted to get "out from under the PERS blanket" they'd still have to "pony up" that 12% back to the employee to invest it as they will. It'd be the only fair thing to do.

Posted by stateofnatchez (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 5:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Triscuit,

Do you think anyone that contributes to this board puts full faith in everything the "Democratic Editorial Board" has to say?

You're dealing with small town journalist, not economist, "opinion" here.

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 7:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This is total ignorance. They are 5 million in debt over the past 2 years ...that is not because of PERS. This is so stupid. I would walk away if I was working there right now. You can get a job elsewhere in the medical field. It may not be Natchez, but it would pay better.

Look at what the Doctors are making and adjust there contracts to help cover the 1.8 mill...Do not take away the retirement that these people have been working so hard for.

I can not believe Kevin Cooper and his folks would even attempt to help convince the employees and people of Natchez that the retirement system is at fault for the hospitals demise. Are you smoking crack up there again Kevin? Yall must be...or at least something just as good.

Quit being the arm of the hospital Mr. Cooper and try reporting the whole story. I bet if you get your head out of the b---- you will see that the contracts extended to doctors are killing the hospital, not the working peoples retirements....

WAKE UP NATCHEZ!!!!!!! They are blowing smoke.....from the drugs they must be smoking...

Posted by concernedrn (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 11:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

1st of all, enkikur......
we do pay social security and PERS; it is on my check every two weeks. Don't try to tell me that I don't have both, b/c I see it with my two eyes every time I get paid. Whether or not PERS says that they take it is not the point.

Also, Peace007: I have a problem with you saying that "at least we still have a job". I feel for the employees of IP that they lost their jobs, but they didn't have degrees, for the most part, and had nothing else to do here. I have a 4 year degree in nursing and I very well plan on leaving here, and getting a better job where they do pay me for my work. This is going to be the case for a lot of nurses, b/c we are NOT going to sit around and get continually screwed for our hard work while all this is going on. I guess its true by what someone said before....let these students coming out of school take all the positions.....they just don't know what they are getting into...kind of like myself.

Posted by dangyankee (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 11:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sitting here on the outside, I really can see both sides of this issue. Mr. Cooper is right about the retirement plan in that it is not just a huge chunk of the hospital's budget, but an ever-growing chunk, and the sad thing is, doubtlessly a lot of that money is not going to fund workers' retirements, but instead into administrators' bottomless pockets. That's how bureaucracies like PERS and insurance companies and governments work.

But virtually everyone else, above, is right, too, in his or her conviction that NRMC workers were promised that retirement plan, have diligently paid into it over the years, and should not have it taken from them.

Reminds you of Social Security, doesn't it?

Probably there should be some kind of compromise: Employees who are vested in the plan should be allowed to stay vested in it, with their own and the hospital's contributions continuing for the "duration", that is, until the employee retires or the hospital goes under; discontinue it for non-vested and new employees (if the hospital can attract any). Mr. Cooper said employees should be "weaned off" the system--presumably he means "weaned off," not cut off "cold turkey," and if so, I think he is right.

Similarly, we probably all should be "weaned off" our retirement plans and social security and all other "something-for-relatively-nothing" plans, benefits, etc., that offer a disproportionately large payback in comparison to what we contribute. We must quit relying on "somebody else" to pay our way--when it comes to retirement, for instance, we should be saving our own money, not paying in a small percentage of our income and depending on other people, other workers, to fund our "golden years," or whatever.

People here--not just in the South, but in the country as a whole--are big on talking "self reliance," but often are fairly "small" in living that ideal.

To use a bad word, here, think "socialism." Insurance plans, retirement plans, all these kinds of things, are "socialist" in the truest sense of that word, or, rather, manifestations of the "socialist ideal."

Posted by commutingnurse (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 11:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dahling,
What idiotic remarks. If you ARE an NRMC employee, you would know the nurse managers and KNOW that they work their butts off. Each of the 5 of them are over mulitple units. They make STRAIGHT TIME not OVERTIME. If they are working extra shifts, it is because they could not get them filled. Someone had to have called in sick and no one else would fill it. They do not sign up for extra shifts on their own schedules. They are posted on every NURSING unit and in the Supervisors office. Go Look! Not hiring nurses? Again you are an idiot. They have families and desire to spend time with them. Short shifting??? You don't have a clue. Quarterly bonuses? I wish they would open up the books for everyone to see what a liar you are, too. How could you say such things when you absolutely have NO PROOF OR REASON. You are obviously in a NON-NURSING position. The nurses would tell you their managers get in the trenches, too. Some more than others, but ALL of them I am sure work much harder than you. Go back to Green Acres, Park Avenue or whereever you sip your herbal tea. You are an idiot! NRMC does not need liars that spread such crap!!! It is people like you that kick others when they are down. Shame on you for attempting to cause confusion!!!!! I am sure there are some that would believe, but no one seemed to respond to your comments, except me.

Posted by MsKitty39120 (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 11:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have 3 nurses in my family and this is not there fault so why should they take a cut in pay and some walk out and then they have alot more work to do . let the big shots running the show take the cuts get rid of the in house Docs and let my doc ck on me when i am in the hospital if i wanted Tillman i would have him as my doc.. i think thats wrong... but &&&&& in the pockets at our health and dont know 2 hotts about my history. thats causeing the prouble..i like to see my own doc that waht they get for trying to be big shots....

Posted by commutingnurse (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 11:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I got my first check today that had the 5% paycut. It really didn't make much difference on my check. (But I'm not at the bottom salaries that are almost minimum wage). In fact, I think it bumped me into a different tax bracket or something because my check was actually a little better. The medicare taxes I paid was a few lines above my PERS takeout in my list of deductions. PERS matters most to the people that are closest to retirement. Some of the newer employees probably wouldn't mind 401k's if their base salaries were comparable to others in this region. NRMC is lower, ALOT lower. I need to quit reading this site. I don't know what is worse: the partial pot shot editorials or the crazy uninformed comments of the majority of the people on this site. Again, I really wish someone would open up the books and let it ALL hang out. I don't understand why the public doesn't have access to all of this information if it is supposedly county funded.

Some of the comments do have some merit, but not many.

Posted by dangyankee (anonymous) on April 3, 2008 at 11:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Concernedrn, you'd better ratchet up your "concern" level a little, because, guess what? What's happening at NRMC is happening all over the country, and what happened to workers at IP is happening all over the country, too. Know what that means? Fewer and fewer people can afford health care. That means reduced PAYING demand (nonpaying demand, people who can't or won't pay, will always be there, and in fact, steadily increasing in number), which means fewer and fewer people like you will be needed, and so you will be out on the streets, too.

I suppose this is what happens when a society becomes too selfish, when the individuals who comprise that society think always "me first" (or "me me me") or "I want I want I want."

Probably I should be more careful what I say. Almost 20 years ago I was working in a pediatric clinic. One day I was in the office, listening to a couple of our pediatricians discuss retirement. They were both relatively young, 35 and 41, and also relatively underpaid, as doctors go, neither earning much more than 70K--about half what they could have made elsewhere. I listened for a bit, then said, "I have my retirement plan right here," and pulled a pack of cigarettes from my pocket. "I'll never have enough money to retire, so I'll die young."

In retrospect, I'm not sure that was such a bad plan.

One other thing: Medical knowledge is expanding exponentially at precisely the time in our country's history that the average citizen's--average student's--ability to grasp knowledge is shrinking. According to one study from several years ago, two thirds of high school students cannot read proficiently, and after reading countless resumes, etc., I believe that. Many doctors, and almost all nurses, can fully grasp only a tiny sliver of all medical information. It is virtually impossible for them to treat a "whole patient," yet, that is what we, patients and potential patients, need.

Weird, huh?

Posted by concernedrn (anonymous) on April 4, 2008 at 2:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

dangyankee.........
I got news for you son.....my concern is ratcheted...I will not be on the streets b/c some peon doesn't want to pay their hospital bill...I will always have work wherever I go....Seems like you think you know more than you do....my knowledge is not shrinking...I can read....and I can grasp more than a tiny sliver...that's why I consider my career important...oh yeah, I guess that's "me me me"...but guess what...I will have a roof over my head, I will have food on my table, and I will have my kids in schools that are appropriate....and if it takes living off the government like most of the low life's in this town who have no desire to ever get ahead...then so be it!! I went to school to take care of people and make a living for my family, and your going to sit there and criticize me for being greedy and selfish, then I'm just greedy and selfish..so be it!!! I don't care...I have to take care of myself and know that my responsibilities are met before I can worry about anyone else.
Commuting nurse...guess what, you might have not had a lot taken out, but I DID....more than $100, which totals $2400/year....you can just sit there and appreciate being in your "new tax bracket", but I'm getting the heck out of dodge!! Have fun!

Posted by triscuit (anonymous) on April 4, 2008 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

stateofnatchez, I don't really have expectations of anyone who contributes to this board. We're all just human beings with varying degrees of comprehension and communication abilities. I DID expect more from the Democrat. This editorial really did seem like something fed to them that they spit back out. I'm reassured by today's editorial about the hospital, ideas in it seem a bit more reasoned through than in the PERS piece.

Posted by commutingnurse (anonymous) on April 4, 2008 at 7:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

concerned rn,
the only concern you sound like you have is about yourself. Go ahead and get "out of dodge" if that is what it takes for you. I was "speculating" about my check. I didn't put the figures to it and add it up. could have been some of my deductions, they flucuate depending on what I have held out. I ALWAYS pay extra in taxes, maybe my changes didn't get keyed into the computer right and they didn't hold out at the single rate like I always do. My base pay was cut, too. I do not make light of you losing money from your check or no one elses. Have fun? Will you?
I'm not disrupting my family by moving away. My family is still here, so yes, I will have fun. If you are implying working in an environment that is short handed, done it before and I don't mind hard work! Then again, I don't owe YOU an explanation. DO I?
AND I removed my own comment because I don't make "light" of anyone losing money and don't want people to misconstrue my words and think that i'm rubbing crap in their face. NOT TRUE

Posted by dangyankee (anonymous) on April 4, 2008 at 9:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Concernedrn, since my mother is NOT an RN and is not from here, it is unlikely that you are my mother; ergo, I am not your "son." Just for the record.

Also for the record, I was not attacking you, personally--I was playing on the "concern" part of your handle here. Thing is, we ALL need to ratchet up our concern a little. I never criticized you, personally, as "greedy and selfish"--I criticized all of us as that. And we are. Maybe it's a human thing, maybe it is because we live in the wealthiest nation in the world (for the time being), and have grown up believing that "more" is not only always ours to be had, but that we are "entitled" to more, more, more. Well, we're not.

Again for the record, you are doing, if I can believe you (and I have no reason not to), exactly the right thing: You've gotten an education in a field that, for now, offers virtually limitless opportunities. Clearly you gave much thought to your career choice before embarking on it, and I congratulate you for that. That's not being "greedy and selfish"--that is simply trying to take care of your own future, and that of your children.

Tell me--isn't it true that even RNs "specialize" now? A couple of RN students told me they had to select specialties, and I know from my own experience that nurses do: Our pediatric nurses didn't want to work in adult units, for instance, and nobody in our pediatric clinic wanted nurses coming in who had no pediatric experience. How many specialties and subspecialties are there, do you suppose? A specialty is only a "sliver" of the sum of all medical (or nursing) knowledge. So, yes, I stand by my statement, above--and even that was not a "put down" of you or anyone else.

Reading comprehension is not one of your specialties, is it?

Actually, I probably know MORE than I think I do--because I don't think I "know" a whole lot of anything. What I've said in my postings here is a fraction of what I "suspect" or "sense," the fraction that I am sure about.

By the way, Ms. Concernedrn: You say you will always have a job, but you also state that you'll happily take a government handout. There seems to be a contradiction, there. (I'll bet I can guess where you got your degree.)

Posted by dangyankee (anonymous) on April 4, 2008 at 11:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

P.S. Go ahead and "get the heck out of dodge" (the car? the game? the city in Kansas?). Nobody will miss you, trust me. My guess is, though, that you have a degree from a school on the brink of non-accreditation, and that you have an attitude that, um, sucks. Good luck getting hired anywhere else. I mean that--good luck to you. I hope you do well.

Posted by concernedrn (anonymous) on April 7, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Dang yankee:
nurses do specialize at some point, but when you first come out of school, you have the freedom to pick which specialty that you would like, then see what type of requirements they have. Some pediatric nurses were general med surg nurses for say a year or more before they were able to specialize. Sometimes the floor will hire you without any experience and will train you from there. It all just depends on where you go. Now in the case of Natchez Regional, they will, have, and especially now, hire unqualified people for even the critical care areas, which to me is scary. I don't think we are ready as new nurses coming out into the world to try and conquer critical care. Once a nurse has worked in one or more areas, yes, I believe them to have more than a sliver of education/experience!
I believe that my reading comprehension is just fine. I don't see how you as a yankee, can come down here and have all the time in the world to sit here and badger me about my life, educational background, and career, etc. What do you do? Not that I care, but come on, if your so educated enough to judge me, then what do you do? No disrespect here, but most jobs don't allow you enough time to post comments about nurses in a failing hospital. And if you do this in your free time, then boy, you have a life! Please, let the nurses alone in our search for a greater good. Don't try to question my education. You don't know me and rather, never will, so let it alone. You surely don't act like you suspect or sense anything. You type as you know exactly what you say....anyway. Yes, I will always have a job, but if I continue to stay at Natchez Regional and allow them to keep taking my pay, yes, I would have to take a government handout, b/c I would definitely quailfy for all benefits. We are paid pennies...so even now we should be on medicaid, welfare, TANF, or whatever they give.
And where, if you must suspect or sense that I got my degree....It would shock the pants off of you.....
Let's just hope that you won't ever need any health care, b/c when you sit here and talk about not having a good degree...we are the same people that take care of you, so you might want to think about what you say before you say it!

Posted by iamnobody (anonymous) on April 10, 2008 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ok to those who are not in the medical areas of work and those who are,,those of us who do work in this area chose it because of either one of two things,,wanting to do this type of work, or the money,,i am an lpn i have worked in the natchez area in the past,,in fact my family still lives there..i told a following group of lpn students that if they are in this for the money they will eventually hate what they do and stop nursing..as far as regional hiring,,i applied there last year, had a inital interview and was never, yes never called back, after i was told that "i will get intouch with you in a few weeks and let you know",,however over at the other hospital i was interviewed, and offered a job that same day, did not take it because i was not interested in working split shifts(been there and done that already)..

i personally do not care for regional at this moment in time, my most recent experience in the er would make any nurses skin crawl not to mention the er's doc (who is contracted out) assessment of a mva victim.

my feelings are directly a result of a few, i know alot of people who still work for regional and they are good people, they deserve stability not to mention the pay and recognition that should go along with the title we have worked hard for and earned.

maybe the state atty should look into the possibility of legal actions against quorum kind of like those agains the ceos of enron,

ok and if the contract with quorum had been terminated,,how can they still have a ceo in place....

hummmmmmmm..how much more money is going to sprout legs and walk away??

anyway, i was raised in natchez, i have worked in natchez, left and came back, and nothing the the landscape had changed

so now i live and work south of natchez,
but as i was told time and time again ,,nobody cares,,

well i am someone who cares, i do care about my profession, my job and my family,,so
I AM NOBODY AND I DO CARE!!!!!!

Posted by iamnobody (anonymous) on April 10, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JUST SEARCHED THE WEB, QUORUM IS SHOWING A POSTING FOR A CFO FOR REGIONAL,,ONCE AGAIN THE ND REPORTED THAT THE CONTRACT WAS TERMINATED,,,HEY ADAMS COUNTY SUPERVISORS,,,CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS ONE?? GO THE WEB SITE QHR.COM, IN THE SEARCH BAR TYPE NATCHEZ REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER,,AND YOU WILL GET THE POSTING,,,,LOVE WHAT THE COMPANY SHOWS FOR REGIONALS INFORMATION,,, FROM THEIR WEBSITE:

The service area is 90,000; 95 beds are operational with an adjusted ADC of 64. There are 50 physicians on staff; 2006 budget of $113.4 million gross revenues; A/R days = 54 (net); Bad debt = 12%

ONLY 95 BEDS OPERATIONAL??WTF HAPPENED

IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO TAKE MY WORD FOR IT GO LOOK FOR YOURSELVES

Posted by dangyankee (anonymous) on April 12, 2008 at 12:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Let's just hope that you won't ever need any health care, b/c when you sit here and talk about not having a good degree...we are the same people that take care of you, so you might want to think about what you say before you say it!"

Trust me, concernedrn, after working 18 years in hospitals and a few more as a medical transcriptionist, observing first-hand, second-hand and third-hand what goes on in hospitals, and particularly with the "caring" nurses and "intelligent" doctors, etc., I pray to God every day that, sometime after all my dependents are gone, he sends a rattlesnake or heart attack my way, sometime when I am nowhere NEAR anyone who might try to "save" me, so that I might die in peace, not having to experience any of our current health care system's ministrations.

As to your questions about how I have time to post in here, do the math. There are 168 hours in a week. I work 40 (sometimes more) of them. That leaves 128 hours. If I slept 8 hours a day (56 hours in a week), which I don't, that still leaves, what, 72 hours? I also spend an average of 2 hours a day walking/caring for 16 animals--subtract 14 from 72, you still have 58 hours. Then there is my "avocation," photography, which takes, maybe, 2 hours a day--subtract 14 from 58, still leaves 44 hours. Shoot, I could fit in another full-time job, couldn't I? "Badgering" you takes no time at all, really.

I suspect the reason you're so defensive is that, deep down, you KNOW you're not doing a whole heck of a lot, for your patients or anyone else. You're just toeing the proverbial party line, which, for nurses, is that "we're overworked and underappreciated, and soooooo busy all the time, even when we're 'resting' at our nurses' stations and ignoring call lights, etc."

By the way, I'm only a "dang" yankee, rather than a "damned" yankee, because, while I come from north of here, my home state has a star on the precious Confederate flag. What difference does it make, anyway? What I say makes sense or it doesn't, no matter where I hail from.

Posted by concernedrn (anonymous) on April 17, 2008 at 1:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't toe any party line. I KNOW that I AM doing a heck of alot for my patients. How the hell would you know? Besides, this is has gotten way off kelter from the original story and from now on I will not waste my time answering to idiots like you. I don't need anyone's judgement on my shoulders. Medical transcriptionist....is that all you've got! If all you have left to do is badger me, then lord help you!

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on May 15, 2008 at 12:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I didn't read this again until just now, so here I am a little late in responding to you concernedrn. You are wrong in your statement about IP employees not having degrees or 4 years of schooling. Some of the IP employees hired in after completing college and accepted positions in production and worked hard in a laborous position, because they didn't have very much other employment choices that allowed them to stay in Natchez. Some employees, after working in production, were accepted into the maintenance program which required them to take classes which lasted about 4 years, as part of their on the job training. After they completed those 4 years of classes, they received a journeyman in maintenance. Some IP employees also attended classes at CoLin and received an AD. IP had a very good tuition reimbursement program. Even the employees that already had gone through a 4 year apprenticeship program had to go through IP's maintenance apprenticeship program for 4 more years. So, I just wanted you to know that some of those IP employees had more years of schooling than you would have gone through to receive an RN. And, when IP closed many of those IP employees were making more an hour than you are now.

In other words gurl, life is like a box of chocolates...you never know what you're gonna get.