Posted by natchez1 (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 12:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree that we need to see how the money is going to be spent, in the past the promotion budget was misdirected to build expensive buildings that while nice do not bring people to Natchez. "Build it they will come" only works in the movies - or with money spent on promotion.

Natchez in the last 10 years has not been able to promote anything well. We drove tourists away with a bus tax and now we could drive more away if we raise taxes too high on just the overnight guests. $2.00 per room per night is too high. An extra dollar plus a few pennies on food was a better proposal, and I see no reason why some should not help fund our major industry. If Rentech gets built taxes will be used to fund site work, tax breaks, etc. This will be done because many people think tourism only helps blue haired old ladies, and old Natchez money. This is not the case. Natchez has less than 18,000 people yet we have 11 downtown restaurants and dozens more around town. These restaurants depend on tourist traffic; without the tourist industry Natchez could only support a few fast food franchises and maybe one nicer restaurant. Downtown also depends on support from outside. Many locals have not shopped downtown in years. Old Natchezians won't stray off Main or the 500 block of Franklin Street.

Yes we need to promote Natchez - Yes we need to advertise - yes we need better signage to direct people into Natchez.

The fear is simple - we have the same people in charge of the CVB. The cost of staff for the CVB has increased dramatically yet the tourist numbers have plummeted. Costs need to be trimmed and then money needs to be spent on promotion. When the promotion starts to revive tourist numbers then start to increase the staff numbers again.

We have to increase the promotion budget - we need a use tax and to trim costs. We will soon have a great restored downtown, new hotels in and around downtown, a new casino, and new management for the downtown convention center. If we work together and invest together Natchez could rebound. If we mess it up Natchez may be doomed.

Natchez' population is continuing to fall, people are still leaving, and many businesses are hanging on hoping for better times.
New people and new money have come, seen the potential and have invested. Lets hope their investments flourish.

Posted by texasranger (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 3:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

They need to add another tax that is a unexplainable tax, so they can steal more money, my grandson is that smart.

Posted by texasranger (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 4:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Why is it that since the late forties and 1950 when IP Co. opened in Natchez has their been a steady decline in industry.??? If the officals,tourism whatcadiggers,straw bosses,old money folks, and smart planners can,t improve in 50 years and just go downhill turning away business after business. Why would any idiot think they would suddenly wake up today and change their ways???
The officals and business planners have planned and directed Natchez for the last 50 years to the point of ending up on the bottom. The reason for that is because that,s the way that circle of people want it. They wouldn,t have it any other way...Think about it and do the math in years.

Posted by texasranger (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 4:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I,m not going to change after 50 odd years. Most folks never change, they just quit doing some things for a little while anyway,mostly to try keep the taxpayers at bay and quiet.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 5:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

why would you vote for a new tax when they "miss-directed" the old?

Posted by dangyankee (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 5:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In the case of the hotel tax, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Natchez consumers want to know what they're getting for "someone else's" money? That's actually kind of refreshing.

That said, I agree not only with this editorial, but also with natchez1, above: I do, after all, come from the "show me" state, and have asked before to be shown a few specifics with regard to what the nearly half a million dollars ($400,000, wasn't it?) projected to be raised by the new tax(es) would buy. As the editorial puts it, "how many feet of asphalt?" My gut hunch, at the risk of sounding like one of the "nattering nabobs of negativity," is that the first thing the money would buy would be higher salaries for those in charge of spending it. If so, even that might be just fine, IF those folks could make a case that they deserve a pay raise on account of all the wondrous things they are about to do for this city. Key phrase, here? "Make a case." Show me.

If you want an "outsider's" viewpoint, and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't, it strikes me that one reason all of Natchez is so reluctant to buying into tourism as a bread-and-butter "industry" here is that it truly does seem to benefit most only one class--the "owners"--and, at an even more basic level, the "history" that tourism-promoters promote is the history of only a fraction of us: Not many of us are descended from the antebellum "aristocracy," after all, yet that seems--from an outsider's point of view--to be the only history that is celebrated here.

That's sad. Two of the most interesting places I've visited in my time here have been the photo exhibit (put together by the late Thomas Gandy, I think) attached to the First Presbyterian Church, and, of all places, the Under-the-Hill Saloon, where the tables are made from hatches of old steamboats, or so I was told by a waitress there a few years ago. That was history that resonated with me, a simple working-class guy from a Missouri farm, in ways that the plantation houses' "glory" never will. My suspicion is that a lot of people in Natchez feel the same way, and THAT is why I suspect a large part of the local population will never truly get behind tourism, or promotion thereof: In many ways, it seems to have nothing to do with them.

Point is, it looks to me like, if you want to get the "general populace" of Natchez to get fully behind anything tourism-related, first you need to show them (us)how it matters to them, and you have to do it in a real way--spare us the "more dollars in the community benefits us all" platitudes. While it may be true in some cosmic sense, "more dollars in the community" rarely translates into more dollars in a wage-earner's pocket.

Posted by dangyankee (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 5:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

(Here is the rest of what I had to say. Did you know there is a 3000-character limit to comments here? So I talk too much.)

What I've never gotten here is any sense that "rank-and-file" Natchezians have any particular pride in this genuinely historic place. That's kind of sad, too, because even I, a farm kid from the frozen "north," had heard of Natchez, had read at least its name in history books. Trust me, the same cannot be said of Maryville, Missouri! Outsider's point of view? If y'all can find a way to build real pride in this place, this community, the community will succeed and, ultimately, prosper.

Posted by colescreek (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 6:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

A tourist comes to town. She goes to a restaurant, has a meal. Looks at the brochures and decides to stay the night and go see some of the sites the next day. Which means a couple more meals, maybe a movie, some shopping downtown or at the mall. She has a flat tire and has to buy a new one. She fills her car up with gas. She looks at the brochures again and picks up a newspaper to find out who is open and what else there is to do. Next day she tours some of the houses. Takes a carriage ride. Shops some more. Buys some shoes and a new dress to go to the Little Theatre. Has drinks at a nightclub that night. And another meal. And stays another night. Etc., etc., etc.
So this one tourist is helping this many people have a job. Not just the owners of these businesses. The people who work there. And then there are the people who these first people spend their money with. Electric companies, air conditioning, a car or truck, groceries, auto repair, a baby sitter so she can have a job, etc.,etc., etc.
My point being, if you cut off the head of this snake that so many people seem to hate, and the rest of the body dies, thats a lot of people out of work. Which will affect EVERYBODY in town, regardless of where you work.
So, from this point of view, more tourists means more money which means more jobs which means more money, etc., etc., etc. So, lets adertise. How? Right now, that seems to be the big question. No one wants their money wasted. We need to feel like we are getting something for it, not just another high paid executive.
Tell us the plan, CVB, or whoever is going to be responsible for spending this money. Tell us how many billboards and where they are. Which magazines? How do you lure conventions to Natchez?
I agree with natchez1 and dangyankee. Give us the plan and we will help you get the money. Show us how you are going to spend this money and how its going to help us. None of us wants to ante up so some bigshot can get a new boat. We don't want a billboard in Siberia or an ad in Jack and Jill kids magazine. We have all been burnt by unkept promises. Open up, and lets get this show on the road.

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 7:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The article title was I thought going to point out that Natchez needs to repair its foundation, before it moves too far forward. If we are to start getting this town moving in the right direction, lets first get the foundation ready.
1. Repair Roads - about 50% of the roads in town need resurfacing
2. City/County Govt - These 2 need to be combined. All would benefit and money would be saved
3. School revitalization - We are still following a federal court order (Organized by Phillip West) which has devistated our school system, and segregated the population
4. Industrial backbone - Natchez doesn't need a large industrial park, but it needs a few strong employers.

Colescreek explained it very well, we all feed of the tourism. Its would be stupid not to take full advantage of this income.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

a concerted effort needs to be started, NOW, to address the high rate of births to unwed girls. we are GREATLY underestimating this problem. schools won't get any better until we do.

but that ain't gonna happen here.

Posted by triscuit (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mike, we are not still under the desegregation order.

http://www.natchezdemocrat.com/news/2003...

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No New Taxes...try less taxes on this and every other industry in town, and see how much faster that really works. ...Except that the politicians and bureaucrats in charge always seem to think that they are smarter than us when it comes to spending.

Posted by csguidry (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ok agreed we do need to know what the money is being used for. They should try putting all tax money in an intrest baring account to help the money grow and only use that money trageted for it's intended purpose.This way it would allow for a surplus and if they did this with all money then there would be no need to raise taxes every time we need to repair something or have a project to fund.

However right now the economy is a huge mess and is not looking so hot. People are hurting financaially and are loosing homes vehicles and jobs to boot. Prices are at an all time high and the cost of gasoline is on the rise. How in the world will passing taxes help? you can pass all kinds of taxes but the bottom line is that people cannot spend what they do not have. I feel many will not be taking vacations at all. used to they would pass the charges from one credit card to another and this would free up some space for new purchases but those days are gone. With tighter lending rules and credit card restrictions this will not be happening this year. I am affraid people are going to have to learn to economize and find simpler forms of entertainment and closer to home at least until this economy improves and I look for that to be a few years yet.

So I am affraid this tax is just not going to work as well as they think. They are basing the tax on... if they come we will have... but that is just the issue IF THEY COME....Everyone needs to think about this before passing any kind of tax. I would suggest lowering them as well as prices because we are about to be in for a ruff ride economically.

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you triscuit, I stand corrected

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A point was made that the court order lead by phillip west further segregated Natchez and destroyed the schools. I agree whole-heartedly. I think it was the worst mistake ever made in the name of desegregation. The schools system before was segregated by choice, not by law. It was because the people lived on one side of town or the other. This happens in other town and cities all over America, but phillip thought that becasue he was a lawyer(on paper only what iI have seen0 that he was smarter than the rest of us and he lead the effort to integrate all the schools to his liking.

Well,phillip, Do you like the schools now? No school in Natchez is rated on the top tier anymore and it looks like they have been going further down more and more every year.

PS, I did not capitalize his name on purpose. That is my way of showing that I have no respect for that ------------

Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 5:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tourists, tourists, tourists. what is a tourist. What everybody needs to do is put your self in their shoes, or think when you go to the beach ie Floida,Mexico, or any where else what draws you there. Before one dollar is given to these blood suckers downtown, be it tax or anything else they need to go to a printshop and have a questionaire printed out and put in every ,hotel room, resturant, visitors center or anywhere tourists may go that asks, Where are you from, why are you here ,how long will you stay, where were you before here and how long did you stay there, where are you going , when will you leave and how long will you stay there, what do you like about Natchez, what do you dislike, will you be back. These people think you can throw money at the quote " tourist industry" and it will work. This town has dropped millions on the tourist industry with lack luster results. Walt Disney went to a swamp "population about 20", down in Florida and opened a small theme park, it's called Orlando today. Vision, Information, looking out of the box is what is needed downtown.The tourist that came here 20, 30, or 50 years ago are no way like the tourists of today. That Gone With The Wind breed is gone and never comming back. As I have said in other posts what is different today for tourists that was not here back then? NOTHING! Same old song and dance. Sit down and eat fried squash every night for the next 2 weeks and see how fast you are ready for a change on the menu. Natchez NEEDS to change the menu or better yet what draws people here. These old homes just won't cut it anymore . If you doubt me. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS!

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Have said that in every venue possible for a long time, only to get slapped at by the publisher of this very paper when I explained to him that the attitude that he carries has been around for a long and tired time. I tried to get him to wake up and smell what was being shoveled. Natchez is old and tired. the educational system sucks, and the leadership around Natchez mirrors the educational system.

I left and only care at all because I have 1 family member left there. Otherwise, I could drive down and visit the cemetary where my family members are buried and never see the city limits....and never miss them either.

Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tourism should be iceing on the cake, these people try to make it out to be the cake. Don't get me wrong, there is a place for it it's just the market has changed. 20 years ago you did not have the gulf coast, there were not but about 2 or 3 reasons to even come to Mississippi. Vicksburg military park and the old homes in Natchez, or to deer hunt . The market has changed, there are many more draws elsewhere in the state now, and the south for that matter. I read in these posts these old ladies have not fought new industry. What a joke! Just think, we were the first, the first! to legalize gamming in the state. Casino owners from Vegas to Atlantic city were in line to open up here but noooooo, everybody would starve from it they said, we don't want even one it will hurt tourism , we don't want it. Now we, it looks like, are going to 3 casinos and think that is something 15 + years later, we could have had it then,talk about a tourist filling up a 15 galon gas tank, how many time a week do think those shuttle busses for the casino that hold 75 + gallons fill up a day much more a week, we shoot ourselves in the foot to many times around here.

Posted by dangyankee (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 9:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A lot of folks have made some very interesting, and valid, points in this discussion. About the only one I would take any kind of issue with is the notion that desegregating Natchez schools (in 1989!!) was what killed education: That process started a long time ago, probably in the 1960s, but the first time I was aware of it was when, as a high school freshman, I read that "college English textbooks have been rewritten to an 8th-grade level." The point was hammered home a few years later, when I attended a "major university" that had what amounted to "remedial reading" programs for its students. Somebody at some point decided that everybody had the "right" to go to college, so they started watering down the standards for admission.

Walter Williams, who writes a column for the "Natchez Sun," said once that schools of education in universities attract mostly those students whose SAT scores are in the bottom 1/3: The opposite of the "best and brightest." So what we have had for at least two generations of teachers are the "dumbest" (relatively speaking) students graduating from watered-down educational programs. Is it any wonder that today's high-school kids cannot read proficiently (study from a few years back claimed that 67% of high school seniors could not. I don't know if I believe that).

About 8 years ago I had to tabulate questionnaire responses from middle-school teachers in the Kansas City school district. Generally they wrote like 4th-graders. And that was who was teaching our kids. My best guess is that if I gave a similar questionnaire to teachers in the Natchez school district, or virtually anywhere else in the country, I would get similar responses. Natchez is not alone in this problem.

So, no, desegretion didn't kill the Natchez school system, or so I suspect, anyway--we've all, in every part of this country, been on that particular slippery slope for at least 40 years.

More in a minute (I think I'm running up on my 3000-character limit).

Posted by dangyankee (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Aaaccck!!! I typoed the heck out of "desegregation" in my penultimate paragraph, above. Sorry.

Posted by dangyankee (anonymous) on February 22, 2008 at 10:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Most of us here have probably taken "aptitude tests" at some point in our lives, right? "Tests" that are not pass/fail, but rather designed to help us see what careers or jobs, etc., we might best be suited for. Me, I'm terrible in math, so rocket science was out. I could type well and am fairly good with language, plus like to work with no one standing over my head all the time, so I wound up in medical transcription. It's not making me rich, but it's a living.

Communities, towns and cities, might need to take an aptitude test once in a while, try to figure out where lie their strengths, weaknesses, etc. What are Natchez's strengths? What separates it, makes it stand apart, from any other small town in Mississippi (or Alabama or Texas or Missouri or North Dakota)? Well, duh . . . Natchez has its history. I find myself in agreement with those jackbooted blue-haired ladies of the garden club or hysterical society in thinking that maybe Natchez should take preserve, and take pride in, that history (not the "antebellum" stuff alone), polish it and make it shine and make it mean something to other people, people from faraway places like, say, Des Moines or Missoula or that town in Nevada that just got crumpled by an earthquake, or Monroe or Vicksburg or Jackson or . . . . We, or YOU, rather--I'm not part of "we" on account of I don't come from here--need to take stock of yourselves, assess your strengths, acknowledge your weaknesses, and find a way to make all that work for you.

Of course, that would require communication among all parts of the community, black/white/rich/notsorich/etc. Unfortunately, people here don't seem even to see each other at all, or, when they do, it is as enemies.

Posted by Mucasplug (anonymous) on February 23, 2008 at 7:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Tax Butch Brown. He built that Abatross and Natchez has been stuck with it ever since. NO NEW TAXES!

Posted by texasranger (anonymous) on February 23, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I guess everyone has forgotten the industrial park Natchez bought on Palestine road and then resold to the same person. It was a tract of land full of gullys and sinkhole that would have taken millions to fill in and make it anywhere usuable for any industry. Then the county resold it to the same person they bought it from for mere pennies on the dollar. TOURISM and the mechanics,farmers,carpenters,factory workers, when they were factories never have or never will have anything in common with the political structure or the old homes and people who own and run and profit from them and the downtown businesses. We always have and always will get the shaft here..period..

Posted by texasranger (anonymous) on February 23, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The drunks wandering out of Dimples handle their money just about the way the tax money is handled in Natchez.
They can,t even keep a swimming pool open

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on February 23, 2008 at 12:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Amen Texas. The city of Natchez has wasted enough on the tired old plan of Tourism as its major industry. I hope soem of the people in charge are reading the post in teh paper the last few weeks.....WAKE UP NATCHEZ!!!!!!!!

Posted by shedevil (anonymous) on February 23, 2008 at 8:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

why do we need to spend money to advertise natchez.i thought that is what we were paying the owners of the new hotel to do