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Mayor wants compromise in Fat Mamas dispute
Published Wednesday, July 9, 2008
NATCHEZ — Fat Mama’s and the Natchez Planning Commission butted heads over the almost complete restaurant project Tuesday morning.
At the Natchez Board of Aldermen meeting, Fat Mama’s representatives were seeking a certificate of occupancy OK from the board.
Representatives from the planning commission were on hand to express concerns over the certificate.
They said they had asked Fat Mama’s representatives to do three things in their project.
First, Fat Mamas’ had cut two curb cut outs on the Washington Street side of their property to allow access.
However, a portion of that property was supposed to be green space, as per previous requests.
By allowing customers to gain entrance from the Washington Street side, they would be traveling through the green space, which is currently asphalt, to reach parking spaces.
The planning commission has requested that Fat Mama’s place two trees in front of each curb cut, a total of four trees.
This would inhibit access, City Planner John Lewis said.
Also, the planning commission requested that all the asphalt between the parking spaces next to the building and Washington Street be torn up to be converted to green space.
Finally, Lewis said the parking spaces on the Washington Street side all have the concrete buffers so cars can only pull up so far.
However, the last two parking spaces closest to the residential property next door have no buffers, Lewis said.
This again would allow access to the building that is intrusive and unnecessary.
Lewis said the planning commission has requested those spaces be closed off with a chain.
Lewis told the board of aldermen the commission was leery of granting a certificate of occupancy, for fear that Fat Mama’s would abandon the three requests because they would have everything they need to move forward with business operations.
Mayor Jake Middleton said a compromise needed to be struck.
“Everybody’s got to give and take a little to get this project going,” he said.
A motion was made for the board of aldermen to grant the certificate of occupancy to Fat Mama’s under the condition that a compromise is made between the planning commission and the business.
The compromise will be discussed during a 9:30 meeting today in the conference room at City Hall.
The motion was approved by the board.
In other business:
4 The Mayor’s Youth Council asked for the board’s blessing to have their Community Day on the bluff Aug. 9.
4Middleton gave a proclamation in honor of Johnny Franklin’s 32 years of service at the Natchez Fire Department.
4 Darrell White, director of the Natchez Association for the Preservation of African American Culture museum, asked for the city’s help in watering the 200 crepe myrtles planted along St. Catherine Street.
“I think we can probably get together and work on a plan for that,” Middleton said.
4City Attorney Everett Sanders made a motion to give Middleton approval to sign a joint resolution between the Adams County Board of Supervisors and the Adams County Sheriff’s Office to reauthorize the metro narcotics unit.
The motion was approved by the board.
4 City Clerk Donnie Holloway asked the board for authorization to get bids to borrow $1.3 million for a tax anticipation loan.
Holloway said this is something the city has done for the past four years.
4 Police Chief Mike Mullins said he will now make it mandatory for his parole officers to get out of their cars and patrol on foot for 10 minutes every hour. Shutting the engine off for this amount of time by the patrol officers will save the department $3,000 a month.
Comments
Posted by oldsaw (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 12:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't understand this trade off. What about following the law? This has gone on a long time. Maybe if I get a traffic ticket, the Mayor can help me find a trade off.
Posted by NtzMom55 (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 12:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Fat Mama's should have rooted in Vidalia. I guess Natchez will require that each of the four trees not have less than 7 branches and no more than eight and that the green space has to be a specific shade of green. Good grief!
Posted by jammin1 (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 12:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
[4 Police Chief Mike Mullins said he will now make it mandatory for his parole officers to get out of their cars and patrol on foot for 10 minutes every hour. Shutting the engine off for this amount of time by the patrol officers will save the department $3,000 a month.]
Snicker snicker.... parole officers???
Posted by Sarge (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 12:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think Fat Mama's is being unnessasarily picked on by the Board of Aldermen and now the new Mayor! This is ridiculous,,,,,Fat Mama's has been in business all these years and only wanted to improve their business by making a larger place for people to go eat a delicious meal,,,,,and this is the thanks they get!!!!
A curb here,,,,,a curb there,,,,,green spaces being griped about,,,,,Plant a tree here or over there!!! Just plain juvenile crap to keep them from opening!!!
No wonder people go to Vidalia to open their businesses! At least they aren't hassled to death about every little tiny thing!!!
Good grief!!! Grow up and leave them alone!!!
Posted by james (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 1:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
COME ON OVER FAT MAMA'S VIDALIA WILL LOVE YOU! WE HAVE A GREAT RIVER FRONT SPOT READY! COME ON OVER !
Posted by james (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 5:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
WHOA (Sarge) YOU WERE JUST OVERTHERE UNNESSASARILYPICKING ON THE MAYORS & CHEIFS RAISE ? WHATS THAT ABOUT SARGE?
Posted by flylo (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 6:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Where Fat Mama's will soon open use to be a dirty train yard. Dang can't the city give them their permits and let them carry on with business. After all there will be sells tax on the items sold there which will go to the city funds.
Posted by Teach4Peace (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 6:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
NOT this mayor??!!!
Posted by crawgator (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 7:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Vidalia! Vidalia! Vidalia! Come on over! Give us your tired, your weary, your buisness........
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This all started because Ron & Mimi didn't want Fat Mama's next to their B&B. They got their local preservation croonies on board and ultimately they lost their fight. Now they are showing signs of being realy sore losers! Lets get this project finished already and stop quibiling over 4 stupid trees.
Posted by John (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 8:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It's not about trees, it's about following the rules. Time and again FMs owners/builders have ignored the rules, even the ones they agreed to. Yes, send them to V. Let them violate the rules over there.
Posted by olderthandirt (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This business has had problems with the 'powers that be' from the get go.I hate the Gammills have had to endure all of this mess.Wasn't there a problem with one of the many planning commission members...they have had a revolving door! And since when can the city atty. 'make a motion'? Isn't that a job for the alderman? Personally, I'm more than ready for the new location to OPEN! It will be easier to get in and out and enjoy the delicious tamales. A personal note to the Gammill family: I hate the city you love and have always called 'home' is giving you such grief.
Posted by annuity (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What next? Regulate the size and makeup of the Tamales?
Posted by olderthandirt (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 8:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This has nothing to do about Fat Mama's.Just wondering why Jake has not removed his campaign sign next to Dairy Queen.Surely he or members of his family have seen it.Time to remove it...and not by city crews!
Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Vidalia would be a good place for Fat Mamas to avoid zoning and planning. In Vidalia, there are churches with a liquor store on one side and a pawn shop on the other. You can go to buy booze, go to church, then buy some hot jewelry all in the same block! I do think Vidalia is beating the pants off Ntz in growth and development, but they cut too many corners in the process.
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
One thing about it , Fat Mama's is getting plenty of free publicity in "The Democrat" for its troubles . I like Fat Mama's . Let's give um lots of business,ya'll . Thank you , Democrat .
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I like Fat Mama's.
BUT the changes sound reasonable. If the requests have been on the table all along in good faith Mama's should have said no or yes before this stage.
If Ron and Mimi were concerned about their property being behind a fast food establishment, it is their right to protest.
Even if the spot was once a railroad yard, that does not prohibit the city deciding that the present development should be more green and manage traffic properly. Once upon a time you could own people in Natchez so historical squalor as a reason for bad planning is just dumb.
If there was a real problem with Big Government here someone would be saying that the mix of fatty tamales and knock-you-naked alcohol is bad for the public and should not be allowed. Nobody is saying that, even though in many areas of Mississippi Fat mama's would be a sin den.
As it is Fat mama's decided to sell in Natchez not because they are so wonderful but because the location was desirable to them. If they want to be in this town as a friendly they can deal with our elected leaders.
Or they can go to flat little Vidalia where there is less of a pretense about style. It is this very pretense of style here than makes Mama choose to be here for the extra bucks.
Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If the city wants green space, then the city should plant and maintain the trees, but the city cannot keep the trees they already have maintained as it is. I just had a city tree fall on my fence and crush the fence, the city is not maintaining it's green space that it already has. Trees and ditches - the city public works is not keeping an eye on things and keeping the trees trimmed and the drainages open thinking ahead and being ready for heavy rainfall. A little prevention and care is worth a lot of cure and unncecessary cleanup of fallen trees and branches and plugged drainages that could lead to flooded houses in case of flash flood.
It's ridiculous that public works acts like cutting trees is too much for them to do. Those boys just want to ride grass cutting tractors and that's it. If public works cannot maintain the city's landscape problems of trimming and cutting trees and bushes, cutting grass, planting flowers, digging ditches, moving dirt and plants, etc - then they all should be fired and let's get a crew that can do all the landscaping that Natchez needs. This is supposed to be a town full of flowering trees and beautiful plants and gardens, that would require a public works crew capable of proper maintanance.
The planning people are placing too many requirements of private business it seems.
But I would think Fat Mama's would be glad to go ahead and place the curb bumpers as a courtesy to neighbors though. That would be well worth it to shup those griping neighbors. But I'm glad Fat Mama's can go ahead and open up. We need more family business like Fat Mama's.
Way to go Mike Mullins to get those officers out walking.
We all should be raising hell about the lack of mosquito spraying. We need mosquito control in action. West Nile, carried and infectious to humans is a serious issue. I hear that the person that Natchez has invested money in, has trained, etc refuses to do the work. This person should be fired immediately and replaced with a competed insecticide applictor fully trained person that will get the job done and LIKE IT. I also hear that the insecticide is expensive, SO WHAT! It will cost us more to get sick and miss work than to go ahead and spend the money for the insecticide and keep the mosquito population down. Also the city planners, inspectors, etc should make sure that all idle standing water is drained and that the mosquitos have no breeding waters. This is a serious public health issue.
Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Looks to me like the Mayor is doing his job trying to quiet down the gripers (Ron and Mimi)and get Fat Mama's going.
Way to go Jake
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 10:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Goodbye Ron & Mimi...let the door hit you where the Lord split you....
I believe that the new City p[lanner is just another Neighborhood Nazi brought on by the powers of Natchez that will help keep it nothing more than a tourist town.
I hope Fat Mama's will open soon and I hope they will become more popular than the old blue blood homes around them.
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think the MEN who work for the public works do a good job with the resources given. Remember we are still a small town with a budget and resources to match. I have to say John Butler is a very valuable city employee who cares about the way he and his crew's work is viewed.
Posted by him2her (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And people wonder why Vidalia is growing and Natchez is not ---- duh, those green spaces and trees don't pay the bills.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Is Fat Mamma's a fast food restraunt? Does it have a drive-through? Just wondering...
I agree the city crews do pretty good with what they have. Most of them try, but part of the problem is they don't know what they need to do. I have heard we have a city arborist but what do they do?
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Fat Mama's is quality food that is served fast. It is tex-mex, or at least it was at the former location. I really enjoyed the food at the old location and hope the quality will still be as good or better than it was at the old location.
Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Those MEN don't do the work MEN are supposed to be able to. BOYS ride riding mowers like go carts, which is what our crews do. MEN can cut trees and haul limbs. MEN can plant flowers and gardens. MEN can do more than cut grass. MEN think ahead and make plans to save time and money. BOYS just do what they are told and pull a check and go to the house. MEN don't wait till the damage is done and then try to make excuses for their negligence.
Those BOYS should be able to climb up and trim trees and save the city all that money instead of having to contract out to have it done. We have the gear, we have cherry picker crane buckets which makes it a snap to prune out dangerous dead and overhanding limbs. We have chain saws and dump trucks, tractors and all sorts of gear. Put it to good use or sell it and fire the whole crew.
We got plenty of trees that are in need of pruning as it is. We really don't need to plant more. In the past the city has gone to great expense to beautify Natchez (good intentions) yet did not do it right and actually just caused unnecessary expense for their stupidity (lack of training). If you plant trees too close, and do not prune them correctly you are asking for trouble. Also wild trees that go untended cause problems too. Public works should keep an eye out for trees that are likely to drop limbs and trim them ahead of time to prevent problems and SAVE MONEY.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeah, I know what they serve. Someone had said something about them being a "fast-food" place, and I just don't think of them in that light. To me a fast-food is one that you go through a drive-through and take home. I'll be glad to get some tamales when they re-open!
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 10:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Krogers,
I have suggetsed that the ND take a crew of 2 or 3 and follow all the city workers around and do a series on the "Men-at-work" for Natchez and Adams County. They would need to do it secretly to get the desired results.They replied cordially and said NO. This would open the eyes of many on what they are getting for their tax dollars.
I suggested the same thing to the Clarion Ledger and they said no too. I have seen the guys walking around and doing nothing while they are supposed to be working. They are at the local store or donut shop or in the shade....It makes me want to scream. But needless to say, the people at the papers do not want to...
WAKE UP!!!!!!!
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is all so silly compared to the real problems we have such as teenagers carrying guns and shooting each other.
ND: Did you mean "patrol" officers instead of "parole" officers in the last section of this story?
Posted by speakeasy (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Amazing comments! This situation is NOT about trees. It's about families who have invested in their neighborhood, relied on the legal ordinances to protect their investment and property values. This situation occurred because your city government chose to forgo the ordinances and rule in favor of "friends and allies" from the local courts all the way to Jackson. They, admittedly, regret their mistakes. When a few of the city council members were asked to take a look at what the surrounding homeowners would be facing one of the "officials" said "looks to me like you should just sell". Sell now? After the property values are diminished? Now, I want to know who on that city council is going to be man (woman) enough to stand up and say we made a lot of mistakes in the past and we are now going to relinquish the power to overrule the commissions who are best suited to make the determinations regarding development in the downtown district. At yesterday's meeting a new council member asked how the council could avoid these horrible situations in the future? What happened here, why? Jake responded by saying something about change in planning dept. heads. Well, Jake you had the ordinances in front of you with clear and defining guidelines. And if you didn't have time, didn't care to bother yourself with the task why didn't you let the commissions assigned to the task make the determination without political intervention? There are no viable excuses for this mess. Only Natchez politics as usual! Let's hope for change.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Speakeasy- Was the property commercially zoned when you purchased your home? If so then you should have expected that at some point some commercial development would occur, it's a great location. I do agree that Fat Mama's should comply with the codes but as the mayor has said, come to a mutually agreeable compromise and get this project completed. I have been to Fat Mama's on numerous occasions and have never been witness to loud or obnoxious behavior, it is not a fast food establishment, it's a great tourist destination. Get over it, it's done!
Posted by noneya (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Do you all remember my telling you of the gentleman that tried to build at the old gas station at the beginning of Main St. and was even told not only WHERE to plant greenery but WHAT to plant? Same ole, same ole.
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well put happy. The only commercial building the "home owners" in the area would be happy with there is another antique shop with perhaps a museum dedicated to the history of the hoop skirt next door.
I second the motion..Get over it!
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 12:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Preach on!!! I have to agree with that motion. Get over it folks.
Posted by MayJay (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Petty...I hope you people read this and realize how your pettiness is prohibiting the growth of your cute little city.
Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I know this is a bit off subject from the article above, but it does relate to the trees and maintenance of green zones, city public right of ways, and drainage areas.
I have to give credit when credit is due
I called the mayor's office, my alderman, and Eric (supervisor at the Public Works). Eric's a great guy and responded immediately about the trees, the drainage, etc that need care. They will cut the old cottonwood that will soon fall and would otherwise collapse a large culvert, kill the high grass that harbors snakes, and get that large tree limb off my fence. I am not asking the city to repair my fence, I'll take care of that. I should have spoken up earlier about that dead limb hanging out earlier as a good citizen is supposed to do.
My hat is off in appreciation to Mayor Middleton and all his underlings.
Speak up Natchez and bring to public works' attention things that need care, or else ...............
I have a feeling Jake will be a good Mayor, as he does seem to be a CAN DO sort of guy, along with Supervisor Eric in Public Works. Thanks guys for taking care of our drainage so our neighborhood won't flood in the event of a heavy storm.
Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Now back on subject,
the bed and breakfasts should realize that restaurants and other entertainment and service industry are directly related to their success and should try to help one another especially if they are direct neighbors.
Get over it and compromise.
Let's take care of what we have now, before we start spending on new stuff, in regards to landscape.
It would be so nice if the public works could do landscape/real horticulture and plants some significant gardens around town.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow Krogers. Look at your posts.
I hope you believe in evolution because it certainly looks like you evolved between those posts. He,he!
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 4:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mayjay,
Many of us on this blog have been trying to open the eyes of the powers at be in Natchez to the fact that they are hurting themselves more every year. They have no idea...they can't see the forest for all the trees. They think that being a tourist town will do the trick. All it is doing is keeping them at the bottom of the pile.
They think that they can have awful public schools and have economic development...they can't understand why companies do not want to be there when every manager they hire will ask for more money to send there kids to private school to get an education.
They think that a few hoopskirts and 2 weeks out of the year will bring economic prosperity to average Joe...when the truth is nobody in Natchez has made a fortune selling pralines at the entrances of the old houses..
Enough, I could go on, but just maybe Mayor Middleton will wake up and see the future and try to CHANGE IT before it is too late.
Posted by eagleX2 (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Is this "compromise" sort of like a plea bargain in a criminal case? I think not, because in most criminal cases the law has been broken, some victim's rights have been violated, and you can never completely reverse the wrong. Sometimes the prosecution is willing to accept a guilty plea on a lesser charge because they may be lacking some crucial bit of evidence to make the case an open & shut one with the jury. In this case, it's very evident that Fat Mama's has viewed themselves as being above the laws or guidelines set forth by the City of Natchez. Is that like you haven't committed a crime if you don't agree with the law you broke? I know and like the owners of Fat Mama's, their neighbors, most of the Preservation Commission, the Millers, and the Mayor. I am pro business and pro historical preservation, but I've got to tell you, a compromise at this point in time will leave a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of people, including mine. These people vote and eat tamales. All of these blatant violations by Fat Mama's can be reversed! A compromise will not be "pro business" in the long run if businesses can run roughshod over the City of Natchez laws and guidelines. Take ride through Vidalia. Is that the visual example of a "pro business" atmosphere you would like to see in Natchez? I think we have come a long way in Natchez in the last 40 years. Let's not start letting things get out of hand for the sake of being too "pro business"!
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 6:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
eagle2,
Don't worry, Natchez will never be accused of being pro-business....lol...never have, never will.
Posted by james (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 7:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
(eagleX2) maybe you should get out an look at the other sides of Natchez ? I travel in & out of Natchez a least 4 times a week and Vidalia looks great!
Posted by quietstorm (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 7:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
much ado about something that does not line up with the "powers that be" and what they want. business as usual.
Posted by gator (anonymous) on July 9, 2008 at 11:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This is the very reason Natchez is in a state of decline , business wise . Our so called leaders allow these preservation commissions
and other greens too much power . They have a choke hold and full nelson on anything that remotely looks like progress . Something needs to change quickly . Downtown Natchez is a very anti business environment . They make it so hard for business to function . Keep on with this and everything will go to Vidalia . They are very friendly to businesses wanting to locate there .
Posted by iluvntz2 (anonymous) on July 11, 2008 at 12:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So a lot of you are saying that it has been a long time, we like the food, we like the margaritas so just forget the rules and let them do whatever they want. Gee, that's a good attitude. Then the example that we are setting and advocating is "rules don't mean anything, everyone should do whatever they want if they are willing to fight long enough".
Some say that the city, etc. have given them enough headaches, on the flip side; they have given the city plenty of headaches too.
The planning comm. tries to stick to the plan and they get over ruled. I think it is really sad that our new mayor got involved and undercut the authority of another dept. It is never a good thing when the boss embarasses someone in a meeting or in the press.
This is not to say that I agree with the plan, but if Fat Mama's knew that they were supposed to do these things, then they should have just done them and then applied for the certificate. Maybe they think they are above the rules? Maybe they think they have friends that will make it go away? Maybe they are right?
And on the subject of public works, what about the barrels that have been in the middle of several streets for a month now? Could we please finish the job and get the barrels out of the way?
Posted by Redchief (anonymous) on July 13, 2008 at 9:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Locate a Natchez business in Vidalia!? What!?
Copeland is a little weasel that talks out both sides of his mouth - believe nothing he says.
As for Vidalia itself- it looks like a dirty little town placed on cinder blocks that could pull up roots and move at any time.
Can't say enough bad things about Vidalia's administration and some of its workers, especially H. L. Irwin.
Stay in Natchez and play by the rules.
And I'm sorry- Fat Mamas new building looks like a barn for animals! It is not in keeping with any of the surrounding architecture .
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