Posted by josey (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 11:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

marty Seibert lets power go to her head as far as im concerned.

Posted by hitormiss (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 11:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

josey,
Personal attacks against citizens who are not public officials should never be allowed, especially when they are giving their time to the community.
In my wife’s word’s, your comment was just plain tacky.

Posted by steve_o (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 11:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

she's with the chick campaign also.

Posted by hitormiss (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 11:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

steve_o, and your point is?

Posted by steve_o (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at midnight (Suggest removal)

no point to be made, just a heads up on affiliation.

noun:
The state of being associated: alliance, association, combination, conjunction, connection, cooperation, partnership.

Posted by steve_o (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What say you hitormiss. I think you missed!

Posted by steve_o (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"ON THE SIDE, LTD" is this an actual brick and mortar place?
just wondering.

Posted by steve_o (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"In my wife’s word’s, your comment was just plain tacky" have not heard much of her since then! hang on, gotta change ip address.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:38 a.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is exactly why the public should resist the creation of all these various boards and commissions that are either appointed by politicians or appointed by themselves. How can the people exercise any voice when control is handed over to those so eager for power?

How many of you realize that the word Soviet in Soviet Socialist Republic stood for the use of various boards and commissions to form public policy? Is this how we want to live? The many beholden to the few who see themselves only as capable?

Support your Mama and kick these charlatans out of your local government. If you don't matters will get progressively worse. Before you know it there will be Smart Growth driving property prices in town up sky high, tax rates will rocket up, conservation zones will be established, and a few people around town will profit enormously while the rest suffer. Don't think so? Isn't that what has been happening for the last twenty years? Can't you see it?

Preservation my butt! That site was a railroad yard during the period of time when Natchez was a real town. It really was noisy then, with trains banging around all the time! And next to it was a meat packing plant with all the attendant smells. But, there were lots of jobs and people lived all around both the yard and the meat packing plant. What are these preservationists preserving? Why, they are preserving something that never was!

Again, Holy Mary Mother of Christ!

Posted by scarlettohara (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm writing in EnKiKur for Mayor!!!;-)

I agree 500% with what you say. I wanted to say exactly what you did, but couldn't find the right words.

I LOVE Natchez, and we DO need to protect what makes it special. However, a small elitist minority seems to think it is up to them to decide what exactly that is.

Posted by ntzmom (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I like David Gammill, and I do feel bad for him because this is probably going to not only set the opening way off track but it;s gonna hit his pocket book rather hard too.
BUT.....
the new building, in my humble opinion, should not have even been allowed to build there in the first place. The new place is directly next to a residential neighborhood. The place is going to be mere feet away away from a bed and breakfast.
People that stay at the bed and breakfast usually want to relax and are more than likely not going to be happy when people get a few drinks in them and things get kinda noisey.

Posted by scarlettohara (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, Ntzmom, BUT that residential neighborhood also is right smack in the middle of commercial properties. That area has always been residential/commercial. It's the heart of Natchez.

People who stay in a B&B in that location might not be looking for peace and relaxation. If I stay at a B&B or hotel right in the middle of downtown, I'm looking for something to do (i.e. Fat Mama's). There are plenty of "quiet" B&Bs around like The Briars, Weymouth Hall, Glenfield, etc. if someone is looking for the "quiet, peaceful" feeling.

I like the Gammills too, and don't have any beef with the "opposing group". I do see their side of it. But again, they chose to live where they do...right in the thick of downtown Natchez.

Posted by natchez1 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If the building has changed from the original plans - then there is a problem.
Vents are normally omitted from renderings. When the convention center was built the plans omitted all the huge AC units on the roof, the various vents and other less attractive details. This is normal (perhaps wrong) The convention center drawings also included huge trees, fancy landscaping etc. The Architect at the planning meeting told me that there was not even enough money in the budget to plant grass, and it was years before any sort of landscaping was done.

I am amazed that anyone on the preservation committee could read a drawing well enough to know it was 8 feet out of position, if that is the case shouldn't that have been caught when the footings were inspected? The Gammil's have been forced to fight at every stage of this project. I am not sure why. People complained that there would be music - the Depot had a band right next door for years with no problems. There were restaurants at the Depot for years and probably much more potential for noise with other businesses. This has been a major investment, in a commercial section of town, I still am not sure why the neighbors have fought it.

Posted by fatherof4 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

They shouldn't have taken his old building from him to start with, and none of this would be a problem.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Could it possibly be, natchez1, that Natchez and its unelected boards and commissions are making all these rules and don't have a person intelligent enough to do timely inspections? Or a method for doing these inspections?

I wonder who inspected the work on the convention center hotel. Was it Captain Bluebeard, or Marty Seibert?

Obviously, if you are going to have anally construed building specifications each stage of construction should be inspected and cleared or rejected at that point where the least expense would be involved in corrections, or the owner could decide to just say "to hell with it" and move his project to Sibley or some other deserving city.

I wonder what is more effective in Natchez, to post your pedigree or credit line next to your building permit?

I am reminded of a story by Sinclair Lewis about a woman who was a member of the DAR and was hosting a speech by a Republican general during World War I. Of this woman Lewis said she spent half her time bragging about how her ancestors had built the country and given it liberty, and the other half of her time denying that liberty to all those socially beneath her.

Posted by NtzMom55 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 2:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What in the world is the preservation commission preserving at Fat Mama's? If someone wants to stay at a really quiet B&B, they need to look where one is isolated from 'active living'. If the preservation commission wants to be such a stickler for preserving things the way they were, they need to go to the Garden District and eliminate all electric poles, lines and vehicles plus have all exerior lighting on the homes in the Garden District converted to gas or candle light. Preservation commission....GET A LIFE.

Posted by fire39212 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 2:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Durn sounds like Marty Seibert is the woman in your post EnKiKur...lol...

Wonder what they would say if Mama's would just move across the bridge...Bet, They wouldn't have all these problems then.....

I am sure vidalia would welcome them...

Posted by FamilyofGod (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Why doesn't the Hysterical Society demand that the two gambling boats offer a "Riverboat Gambler" motif instead of "Las Vegas Tacky"?

If there is ONE thing clashing with the rest of Natchez this is it, and it has single handedly eliminated the distinctiveness that used to be provided Natchez by Natchez Under-the-Hill.

That term, "Natchez Under-the-Hill", brings back some memories, doesn't it? That's all that's left, memories.

Guess it is easier to pick on a tamale house that is not greasing blue blooded pockets.

Posted by observer (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur, your remarks are both irreverent, ill informed and offensive. Had you lived in that neighborhood you would know how long-suffering the folks there were in tolerating the noisey business at the Depot - way before Fat Mama's was allowed to break the law. You show no consideration for indivudual citizens. That old neighborhood was in place long before this commercial venture was moved there. You and Scarlett deserve to have a smelly, smokey, loud business constructed right outside your bedroom window. Your tune might change and you might be begging good citizen volunteers like Ms Seibert and the Preservation Commission to come to your aid!

There is no excuse for what the mayor and aldermen did in this case. They destroyed one business, & a whole neighborhood, to benefit another, ignored the will of a large group of citizens, and ignored the law in the process. No wonder the mayor and some of his cronies were defeated. All of those bozos need to go.

In the meantime, please stop calling on Jesus and Mary to lobby for your point of view and intervene for you. I'm sure they have better things to do.

Posted by JDR (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

this is why down town is in the shape its in now. theres a reason they go around asking businesses to relocate to the downtown area and this crap right here is the reason no one relocates there. fat mamas should say screw downtown and move out to john r. junkin or the bypass.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

observer, I grew up at 504 South Canal. I know that area like the back of my hand.

I know what was there, and lived with all the smells and noise that spoke of a rich vibrant life. I would never beg individuals like Marty Seibert, who should be minding her own business, or doing some charitable work if she wants to do good, for anything, even a morsel of food if I were starving, nor would she likely deign to bless me with such, given her actions in this matter.

If my comments are offensive, then wear that shoe. When I did live in the neighborhood no one complained about the trains, or the meat packing plant, or the numerous juke joints, or the heavy traffic. Real people live with those things.

It is only selfish elitists who attempt to create perfect environments for themselves out of public space, and who wall themselves off into gated communities out of fear and disgust of who they were in the past and might, but for the grace of God, be in the future.

The Preservation Commission preserves nothing, it is trying to create a new fake town that is a compromise of it's own distorted vision of how people should live, what they should do, and what they should see as they go about their daily lives.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, forgive them now and in the hour of their sin, for they know not what they do.

Posted by SimpleSimon (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 4:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have to say I am with the preservation society... I mean they got rid of all the smelly old smoke stacks around here now they only have to get rid of all the bars and non elitest resteraunts. After that all houses down town have to remodel to be civil war era houses in paint and style, cobble stone the streets, and no traffic is allowed unless by horse and buggy. Think of the jobs they will have created. Vidalia will have all the old business's... but there will be plenty of jobs selling praulines in hoop dresses on the street corner during the busy three months of the year.

Please note the sarcasm dripping: This is exactly why nobody wants to move anything into downtown Natchez. If you took offense to what I wrote dont bother writing to tell me about it... I dont care anymore than they cared when they waited till everything was just about put in place to come back and tell him to rip this out and change that. Dont they realize how much money this costs to do that? Or do they even care? There is a good reason why noone wants to go "downtown" anymore. What is there?

Posted by SimpleSimon (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 4:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As a side note does anyone remember who it was that redesigned canal street so that a cop cant even tell if you are drunk with all the weaving from one lane to another just to go down one street. Call this a tourist town? Yeah and what if they dont realize they are in a turn here only lane until its too late... lol

Ahhh well who needs em anyway... there will be thousands flocking here soon to gamble their little souls away on the new gambling boats. ummm i mean barges with buildings on them.

Posted by SayItRight (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 4:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Typical power play with the usual egotistical, demeaning and controlling attitude and the worst possible timing for the target that sours the idea of preservation in the minds of most rather than promoting it.

You can't help but think some people get personal satisfaction at causing the most trouble possible for others. Sort of pathetic really.

Posted by shedevil (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 5 a.m. (Suggest removal)

hats off to enkikur...im glad to see somebody standing up against these village idiots.downtown is a business area..if these people want to live in the downtown area then they should know that they will have to get along with the noise and lighting from a business.i hope these new politicians start doing away with some of these foolish boards so natchez can move forward once again.I wonder why marty hasnt had a problem with the ugly cheap built convention hotel

Posted by adamstanton (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 6:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

well as I can seee not much has changed there as usual, still a squabble more or less about nothing,,, certainly not about anything thats going to change the region, give people more jobs, bring in much money per capita, well I can see not much has changed there

Posted by grrbrts (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 6:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There needs to a very clear and understanding means (list)of guidelines. e.g. If I want a stamp, I go to the United States Post Office. If I want a Social Security Card, I go to the Social Security Administration Office. etc.

Posted by gwhiii (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

this is a joke..........This is why Natchez is growing so slow.........It will always be ghost town..............

pick ...........pick.........pick.........I guess they have no other way to spend there time

Posted by ford30 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

well people wonder why new business aren't coming into the area.. i think this story tells exactly why.. downtown natchez is exactly that downtown.. its made for business's and resturants..

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ARGH!! The blue-hair brigade and downtown clowns have struck again. This time they brought in the big water pistol toting self-righteous do-gooders from the Hysterical Society to beat up on a man that actually WANTS to have a business downtown.

It is no wonder NOBODY wants to build in downtown Natchez. Ii you have a fleet of lawyers, like the casinos, then they will leave you alone, but if you are a small business man , Like Mr. Gammill, whom I have never met, Then they just keep on wielding there little rubber sword to beat you with.

I am in construction and the renderings do not shown big vents and certain non-asthetical features, BUT the plans that were brought to the permit office would have EVERY detail on them and if it has been approved and permitted as it is being BUILT , .............

THEN TELL THE HYSTERICAL SOCIETY AND THE PRESERVATION FOOLS TO GO SUCK AN EGG!!!ALL ROTTEN EGGS!!!!!!

Enkikur Simple Simon and Sayitright, I am with yall.

Posted by observer (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry, folks. New businesses are coming into the town every day. Oh - you haven't noticed? These are the ones that respect the law and obey the guidelines and are not given any trouble. Just look around. Of course, we could go back to all the "trains, meat packing plants and juke joints" reminisced about.

Posted by SayItRight (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Can you just picture someone up in a tree watching the construction with binoculars and waiting for the perfect moment to go tattletale? LOL.

Posted by justthefactsman (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If I owned Fat Mama's with all this drama going on, i would take my business elsewhere. I would leave Natchez and that unfinished building that is sitting on Canal St. and move to another town. This small town crap is rediculous, whining about a vent sticking out of a roof when you have horses peeing and pooping on the sidewalk right down the street from this site. 99% of the people in this town probably don't give a rip about a vent sticking up in the air. You have to have proper ventilation in a restaurant. Fat Mama's is one of Natchez, Ms best known attractions. The Hoop Skirt Mafia and the social who-dee snooties are controling this city. And the general public wonders why the city is in such a bind financially. Ford30 said it right. You people wonder why new businesses are staying away from Natchez, well.....................................

Posted by SayItRight (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Horse poop on the street is historically accurate. It adds to the ambience.

Maybe the NPC should ask the owners to design the perfect diapers for their horses. They would have to be only certain colors of course, and would have to be made from a material that was available at the time. Then after they get approved and a million of them produced the NPC could come back and say, "We don't like those diapuhs anymore. Those self-stick tapes were not on the photos you submitted." Ha ha. Too much coffee this morning.....

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Observer, give it up.....the walls are closing in on the Hoopskirt mafia and the blue-haired brigade. The days are numbered for all the "commissions and society's" ....you are the last generation of the hysterical society...so enjoy yourself...to the BITTER END.

Posted by LdyBreez (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Has anyone ever been to downtown Atlanta? Eaten at Aunt Pitty Pats and then taken a carriage ride back to their 7 story hotel? The contrast is breath taking! A preservation commision is there to preserve what is already there while allowing a city to grow! Atlanta is a perfect example. They were not left with much after the civil war, but they have allowed the city to grow while perserving what was left.

The preservation commission and other influences have acted in (caugh) "The best intrest of Natchez" and held this town back from what it could have been.

Posted by rantnrave (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yall make it sound that Natchez is the only place with such laws... Look at Madison, Mississippi, it has much stricter laws than Natchez and it is going like gang busters - Look at Oxford, it planning dept. can;t keep up with the number of condos being built.

If those two towns are any indication, preservation laws don't hurt a town they in fact attract people who care about where they live and what it looks like. And believe it or not, those people have money.

Or maybe we can be like Fayette, Bude, Hazlehurst - yeah they are prospering towns everybody hears about.

If you build in downtown Natchez, you should abide by the law -- period. It's not as if laws were made up - they have been on the books for years.

Posted by rantnrave (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ldy Breez,

I have lived and worked in Atlanta. Those fans on the roof on Fat Mama's would have been a violation to in the downtown preservation district there. They would have been required to have been screened and they certainly would not have been allowed to add them without approval.

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rant and rave......the above comments are meant for you too....you are part of the last generation....enjoy.

Posted by SayItRight (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Madison is not Natchez. Madison is what it is now because of flight of wealthier folks from Jackson and the surrounding areas. Oxford is a booming college town. Neither is like Natchez.

Natchez is a mix of people, culture and socioeconomics. It needs everything it can get with a reasonable interpretation and adherence to rules. Time to work out the differences without trying to break a businessman. There will be room on both sides for give & take.

Posted by rantnrave (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If you have nothing intelligent to say than attack people -- right redus. I am 39 and God willing have a long way to go.

Posted by rantnrave (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks for the comments Say It. I agree -- some give and take is needed. I want Fat Mama's downtown.

Posted by SayItRight (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And, Natchez will only be like Fayette if everyone gives up on it. Which could happen if the people who would open businesses decide instead to go somewhere else - where they can make a living and prosper without the added layers of gatekeepers trying to always stand in their way.

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sarcasm about the cows...it is a metaphor for all the fat cows of Natchez...I did not want it to go over your heads....

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rant, Madison and Atlanta both have someting to offer in their general vacinity that Natchez does not have, JOBS. All the old money in the world will not keep Natchez alive if the average person can not make a living. Natchez has survived on its reputation far too long and now the cows are coming home to roost.....so just enjoy your little garden parties and society functions...do just like Nero and fiddle while the town burns around you.

Posted by priya (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

what is wrong with trains and meat packing plants. With all the AC and central air and your windows closed up. are you really going to hear anything outside your bed room window. I agree all them one way streets are crazy. Get rid of all them bars and businesses that make a little noise and all natchez will have is 2 casino boats. During the day in natchez who do you see on the streets probably mostly tourists. everyone else is stuck inside their AC homes. If everyone keeps worrying about the noise from businesses why are they living near them. Maybe i think there is to much noise and air polution from highway going through natchez and vidalia why dont we stop them large trucks from using it all they do is wreck anyway and make to much noise. Oh wait a minite the trains left so now all we have is semi- trucks to transport things. But they make to much noise well why do we have paved roads want it to look southern small town we should make natchez have dirt road and no side walks than when we forget to change the horse's diaper we can still bury the feces and even the diaper thats just like all the baby diapers that parents dont have time to throw in the garbage and they leave in parking lots. Wait them diapers can be a new job for our law abiding citizens. EnKiKur for mayor!!!!!!!!

Posted by Idefinitelymight (Tom Scarborough) on May 9, 2008 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Look folks--the construction was halted because Fat Mamas deviated from the plans that were previously submitted to and approved by the Preservation Commission AND the Planning Department. Moving the entire footprint of the building eight feet closer to a neighboring property is not an insignificant matter. Laying asphalt and concrete over space that the agreed upon plan specifies is to remain green is not a trivial alteration, Making curb cuts and creating driveways onto Washington Street when the plan specifically disallowed that is pretty clearly a major deviation since it involves traffic flow in and out of the property.

However you may feel about the value of the Preservation Commission, the fact of the matter is the work was halted because what was being constructed did not conform to the plans that the owners and the Planning Commission agreed upon. The owners made changes without going through the processes that all of us must go through when we submit plans to the city. If I am not mistaken it was the Planning Department--not the Preservation Commission--that issued the stop work order. Those who live in the Historic District must go through two boards to get approval (PC and Planning), but regardless of where in Natchez you live, all must adhere to the guidelines and regulations established by the Planning Department for new construction and renovation. This is the case in virtually every city in the nation.

This is not an issue of a few elites trying to halt progress, though many of you choose to view it as such. If your neighbor was going to build a house next door to your property, and then moved it eight feet closer to your back fence than specified by the original plans, without going through the proper channels to get approval (let alone not informing you directly of their intentions), how do you think you would feel? The Millers are not being unreasonable in expecting that Fat Mamas respect their rights as neighboring property owners. To this point, Fat Mamas has not done so. The Preservation Commission and the Planning Department have both indicated that they are willing to work with the owners of Fat Mamas to facilitate bringing them into compliance so that they may resume construction as quickly as possible. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Posted by Syoung (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

i just hope they don't play that awful music at the new place. That Margaritaville/Jimmy Buffett music is TERRIBLE! It's always playing and we usually leave early due to the music. We've asked them to change it and they say they have to leave it on that station. Play some new hits!! or 80's hits!! anything but Margaritaville! AH!!!

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Redman, its seems like you are always on the wrong side of progress. We have laws and regulations in the city so we can have a functioning society. Fat Mamas had a plan to build this restraunt. They presented their plan and later it was changed. Somebody has to take responsibility for this. You really sound like you have an issue with personal responsibility. If Fat Mamas would of kept to the original design it would of been no problem.

Posted by drawpaintsing (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sayitright, Natchez will never be like Fayette. I don't mean to be sour, but we are slowly moving foward. We don't have as many resources as Natchez does. Even when we get a little better, we still won't be like Natchez. Both cities (citizens) need to get together, and elect the right and fair officials. But I was told that Fat Mamas' site plan was approved by the city before construction, and then they got a letter from the city to stop the construction. Why? I don't know. That's all I know about that.

Posted by noneya (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, I hate to say "I told you so", but I TOLD YOU SO! This is EXACTLY how the gentleman was treated by those folks when he tore down that old gas station that was at the corner of Main and the now MLK St.! If the preservationist knew that drawings often did not show vents on the drawings, why the heck didn't THEY speak up THEN, BEFORE the vents went up? Don't worry, Mr. Gammil...they will nip at you every step of the way...the best is yet to come. Betcha' they'll even tell you what plants you must have and where to plant them. NOW DO YOU FOLKS SEE WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT? (hate to yell, but sometimes its necessary...sorry).
EnKiKur, RIGHT ON!!!

Posted by roberth33 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Excellent point mike8427.

Nothing wrong with abiding by the rules.

Man the blue haired ladies must have been napping in their underground lair to have missed the building violations occuring...

Posted by SayItRight (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

syoung - I can stand the music but I hope the gnats outside don't move with them.

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sayitright - Do you think Fayette has any building codes/regulation enforcement? They build whatever they want wherever they want it. Do you want Natchez to do the same and be like Fayette? Laws and regulations are in place to seperate us from the chaos in Fayette. If you don't like law and order move to Fayette.

Posted by xenon314 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The funny thing about all this is that I have lived downtown most all my life, still have property downtown, have made changes and additions to my property...and not once have I had a problem.

Why? Because I followed the process and I followed the rules. I did my homework up front and made my presentations to the appropriate boards and followed their suggestions. It is a very simple process, and not an unpleasant one if you go in with an open mind. Some of these people on the boards have good experience and good ideas.

Am I one of the "blue haired mafia"? No. Am I one of the elite? Noooo. Just a guy who works the process as listed by law, and follows the rules. Pretty novel concept, isn't it?

We are a nation governed by rule of law. Follow the rules!

Posted by drawpaintsing (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LOL, Mike!

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Very Well said Xenon

I think we have some people with very liberal upbringings that want to destroy this very well preserved city, and I am not going to sit back and let it happen. There is a young generation coming up too that wants to preserve the city, and our culture. Natchez has been around longer than almost all cities in the area, and its going to survive!

Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No Xenon you are not one of them, But, the rules were made with a backward small town, small minded agenda that allowed for a select few to have things just they wanted. This is a prime example of ignorance. Well if the place is 8 feet off, and they want the rules followed, just tear the place down and start over. People are not working and contractors are loosing money because of some vents and some concrete, what a joke. If I was a new mayor I would clean this department from top to bottom. And try putting up a xenon or neon light up on your business.

Posted by annuity (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Horse poop in the streets and Bull Poop from the HS Gestapo

Posted by viaduck (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

1. For those critical of any rule or regulation I assume you are also opposed to the Mississippi Department of Health checking the kitchen operation at Fat Mama's like they do at every restaurant in Mississippi. Or do you like tamales with the flavor of cats? It seems to have worked arount the corner.

2. The next time you are in front of the order box at McDonalds, Wendys, Dairy Queen,etc. and hearing in a loud, scratchy voice, "TAKE YOUR ORDER PLEASE", look to your right about 30 feet and imagine hearing that as you sit on your back porch or cook in your kitchen. Every 4-5 minutes, "TAKE YOUR ORDER PLEASE". The only major request the Planning Commission originally made was to deny the request for a drive-through, otherwise Fat Mama's would have been up and running a year ago.

3. When the owners of the Pig Out Inn built a second restaurant in Ridegland, between Jackson and Madison, they planned to open on September 1st, but rules and regulations pushed their opening date back to March 1 of the following year. Their comment, "we'll never question the rules and regulations in Natchez compared to Ridgeland.

4. 14 years building a thriving bed and breakfast the success of which depends primarily on word of mouth and repeat business. Who's property rights are we talking about.

5. I really thought neanderthals were extinct.

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

NatchezEnema - Contractors are loosing money b/c they didn't follow approved Drawings. Period!

Posted by adamstanton (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In all actuallity the time is passed for this city to catch up with the past and certainly with the present and the future is out of the question. these are just facts. When Natchez was founded basically you had foot and horse travel but large mass transportation was done by Boat since you had to make use of the infrastructure that was laid in place by God himself. But since that time the country has changed Interstate highways no longer run through places like Natchez and they aren't going to change that, and it obviously wasn't important to do so or they could have dipped I 20 down or I 10 up as they did in the case of New Orleans or Baton Rouge,so without the interstate personal mass transpoortation won't be coming by Natchez. Then you have Amtrak which leaves New Orleans on the river and goes thru Jackson and then back to Memphis along the river totally bypassing Natchez so ie no train travelers through Natchez. So we can beat a dead horse all we won't but those two infrastructures will not be changed and the businesses they service along the way won't be in Natchez and so there you have it. If gas gets high enough we all go back to horses and boats using steam Natchez will once again be possibly a glory town of economic boom. Not saying anything is wrong with being a small town but in the day of jobs leaving our shores for another country, transportation expense at an all time high, china and the rest of the world wanting a standard of living more like the one we have become used to having it is going to be very tough to sell Natchez as more than blast of the past to a passing person headed for things more on the beaten path.

Posted by triscuit (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks viaduck. Although I think the "cat" comments were out of line, comments 2 and 3 are VERY interesting if true, and comments 4 and 5 are right on the money.

Also, I had heard construction was shut down because of the eight feet, and although I think that's a horrendous error (or intentional deviation?) to make, I wonder that construction got so far before it was discovered. Was there NO inspection?

Posted by Idefinitelymight (Tom Scarborough) on May 9, 2008 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I attended the meeting last night. The atmosphere was non-confrontational and cooperative. Though I'm certain the owners of Fat Mamas would have preferred not to have to make the changes requested by the Preservation Commission AND the Planning Commission, they accepted the requests of the PC without complaint or histrionics.

So many who post in these forums are scathing in their denunciations of the "Hysterical Society." The irony is that you are the ones who are spewing the vast torrent of hysterical effluvia that flood this forum. You seem to be waging some kind of class struggle that does not exist except in your imaginations. Preservationism and the promotion of tourism did not cause the loss of jobs in Natchez, nor are they obstructing new ones from coming. The reality that many of you misguided class warriors don't want to confront is that macro economics far beyond anything we have control over here in Natchez are what is responsible for the state of our local economy. Sorry to slap you with the big, smelly mackerel of truth.

Posted by triscuit (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Too funny Tom Scarborough! And right on the money as well! Hysterical effluvia and big, smelly mackerel of truth!

Posted by itsawounderfullife (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WHAT is going to happen next!!!! I hope ONE day the Gammils will get their new Fat Mammas built. Bet sometimes they wish they would have just left Nat. alone and come over to the River Front.

observer name some of the businesses that you KNOW are comeing to Nat. I am just curious.

Posted by kpage (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I liked EnKi's comment about the DAR woman spouting pride in her forefathers. The way I see it, you can follow the building guidelines and every rule placed before you if you erect a business in downtown Natchez, but the truth remains the elitist society cares less to see the "regular" people prosper. As long as they can separate themselves from us and create rules to keep us out of their eye shot and nose hairs, the "regular Joe" will have to choose another town in which to prosper. To me, smokestacks and boistrous activity smells like money to me. To them, it's a nasty inconvenience...they already have their money and will see to it rules keep us in our place.

Come to Vidalia...we'd love for Fat Mama's to locate to our fair and MOVING AHEAD town, where we like green, not blue.

Posted by Gimmeabreak (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Syoung, how dare you say that Jimmy Buffett is terrible? Lol :)Margaritaville is the national anthem of us Parrotheads. Sorry, this has nothing to do with the subject but I had to defend my man Jimmy. Anyway, I am a former Natchez resident who loves her hometown. I hope all this mess resolves and we can all enjoy those wonderful tamales and margaritas to the music of Mr. Buffett sooner rather than later.
PS-Congratulations Jake Middleton, a great man!

Posted by kpage (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Gimme...I love J.Buffett. He can make you feel sooo much better when flies from horse poop and arrogant nose flips become too much. Just gimmeabreak and gimmeamargarita with a side of Jimmy Buffett to make me smile!

Posted by ilovenatchez (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:17 a.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by shedevil (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Congrats on your victory Jake....I just hope you shed your clown suit & help us move natchez forward.I hope you address these foolish acts like whats happening to fat mammas....i dont think natchez has the tax base to be so picky on building codes...we need the tax dollars and jobs...not martys bs

Posted by ilovenatchez (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:26 a.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by noneya (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

((ilovenatchez))$20,000 is not a terribly lot of money to be paid to move a lucritive business and have to spend 6 times that amount (or more) to buy another location and rebuild!

Posted by itsawounderfullife (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

kpage wouldnt it be nice to have them come to Vidalia!!

ilovenatchez its hard for me to believe that the Gammills intentionally broke the rules of the Planning Commission, specially after all the "controversy surrounding a new location".

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Shedevil
1. Why the hate at Jake? He is a huge leap forward over PW.
2. Fat Mamas Contractor is the one causing the heartache, the plans were submitted and approved. The contractor changed the design. The building commission did their job, contractor didn't.

Every city has building codes, it has nothing to do with tax base.

Posted by shedevil (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

youre rite noneya....$20,000.00 is just chicken feed as to what the move is costing fat mammas.....seems to me the park service gave them the shaft

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

A town largely dependent on tourism just can't afford NOT to have decisions like these being made, painful as they may seem. Do you think places like Charleston or Savannah don't have regulations in place about sidewalk color or what you're allowed to paint your walls? They do. And people flock there, partly because they've created a distinct, cohesive vision in their community. There will always be people who hate those rules - and that's understandable. But in the end, it makes a huge difference. Otherwise you're Ferriday with some pretty houses and a casino.

This is the kind of small-minded thinking that will doom Natchez to complete irrelevance.

Posted by itsawounderfullife (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

O my ilovenatchez!!! NPS is getting off pretty
cheap if you ask me.

Posted by ilovenatchez (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:52 a.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by kpage (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I love Natchez, too, itsawonderfullife! The Park Service "had affection beaming out of one eye, with calculation shining out of the other". (Charles Dickens) (At least is goes something like that...Dickens is a genius...we could use him and Ben Franklin right about now) Again, I'll say I love Natchez so much and am proud that I was born there and lived there a number of years. I want things to look right, as well, for the tourists. I realize the initial plans and the actual building are different. Maybe the Preservation people can help them find a way to correct the problem without tearing down what they've already built.
Obviously tearing down and rebuilding is nothing difficult for ilovenatchez...maybe he should fund it.

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Fat Mamas only paid $200 rent? They were making a fortune there too. If Fat Mamas only paid $200 for rent and were given $20,000 they are probably extremely happy with this move.

Posted by natchez1 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Many thoughts,
1. The neighbors hated this project from the start and are still fighting, so any transgression is pounced on.
2. The Park Service had always informed the Gammill's of the plans for the building and that was understood. The $20,000 is probably because of breaking the lease.
3. If the building is in the wrong spot then the contractor and the city inspector is at fault. The footings have to be inspected by the city - errors should be noted then as it is not too late to change them.
4. The roof vents should have been included in the plans - It is a restaurant so they have to have vents, as this building was opposed by so many they should have been extra careful.
5. The Fat Mama's site cost $200,000 the building will cost at least another $300,000, every delay costs even more.
6. The site was all paved before - why the sudden need for green space? - again the neighbors trying to limit the success of the building.
7. I don't think there was anything illegal with allowing the building to go ahead. The neighbors claimed that and took them to court and lost. The court case was settled before ground was broken.

Posted by humorme (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hurry up so I can get loaded on margaritas and throw up in the wenzel house garden

Posted by natchez1 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mike - The problem is with the old location the overheads were low and they could make a profit during slow times. Now they have a half million dollar investment they will have to increase business dramatically to have the same profit margin. This is a big risk for them. They will have to pay Thousands each month just to pay the mortgage, the over heads will increase dramatically as the building is much bigger and with more customers (hopefully) you will need more staff (yet more expense). I don't think they are over their heads but the "new" Fat Mama's will be a very different place than the last one.

I wish them luck, and I hope their neighbors to learn to accept them. Under the Hill has sadly become a private kingdom and business run off, I would hate to see Canal Street fade away too.

Posted by josey (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I may be "tacky" to quote your wife Mr Seibert but im honest. I now realize why I dislike your comments everytime I read them.
The Gammill's have been thru so much thru all of this and all the want to do is run their business and help Natchez. Natchez1 I like the way you broke down your thoughts, you covered alot of thisgs addressed here and I appreciate that.

Posted by roberth33 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Too bad their builder was too incompetent to know how to read a design in order to place the building where it belonged. Brilliant.

The building is probably unsound and should be condemned. Not to worry, Phillip will tear it down for the sake of public safety.

Posted by priya (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think margaritas with my surplus check sounds good wonders if the business will be up and running when my check comes in the mail....

Posted by rocketman (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

priya: you could always just pack a lunch and thermos and take it with you on your trip to France with EnKiKur and kpage. To heck with French cuisine!

Posted by rocketman (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If the neighbors don't like it, maybe they should move.

Posted by kpage (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Now that's a winner, priya. We'll skip the Roadtrip and ask humorme to join us in throwing back a few margs. I'll just try not to puke. Their tamales rule, not to mention those green tasty treats! Gringo Pie is my excuse not to cook.

Posted by kpage (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rocketman...are you a margarita partaker? I can't wait till they open...especially after this brouhaha! (We might have to keep humorme out of the Wensel House garden!!!!)

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rocketman, should I move into your neighborhood and ask you to leave?

Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

no no--now don't be reasonable.

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Natchez1- I agree with your assessment of the Fat Mamas business. Rent, overhead, profit are all big factors in any small business. But you say those things like the other small business' don't go thru the same things. We all follow the rules of business and the laws of construction. Why should Fat Mama's get get around this?

One of the problems Fat Mamas had was it was too small. They needed this expansion and it so happened the fed needed the land. It was a win win situation for Fat Mamas until this problems came up with the building. Now they are paying the price for breaking the rules. Once again why should they not have to follow the rules?

Posted by bullseye (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

some people just dont know how to mind there own business.the city fought the gammils since day one. they will try at every turn to foil the grand opening

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tom Scarborough, to say that no class distinction exists in Natchez is laughable. When is the last time there was a pilgrimage king and queen from Cloverdale or Broadmoor? It never has happened has it? How is that for a smelly mackerel of truth? This isn't known just locally, but fairly widely across the globe, which is why Borat targeted Natchez for that skit in his movie, that he so successfully pulled off in Atlanta. It could have happened just as well in Natchez. Natchez Society has that type of sophistication that uses the word nigra instead of the other n-word to showcase its sophistication and tolerance.

As to the details of setback lines, what was and was not approved, why inspections were not timely, how authority over private property was gained and whether or not it is even lawful are all questions that bear looking into. It is just too bad private persons don't have the lawyer and judge buying power of municipalities, because I bet there is a lot in this stoppage that could be challenged.

And I find it very difficult to believe that objections are being made now when the expense to the owners is greatest is accidental. This smells like a rotting carcass of fishy politics to me. How nice to have your buddies on the Preservation Commission and the Planning Board.

Go ahead, Natchez, and build a plastic town based on a false history, and in time you will have your wish and have it to yourselves, because ordinary people don't want to live with your kind anyway. Get some more grants and move all the poor people in Natchez out to some projects on MLK out of sight and put a gate across the road. Take their lots and build condos for people from California and New York, and have parties where you can congratulate yourselves on your sense of lawfulness and order and prosperity. You people are unbelievable.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Fat Mama's chose to locate in downtown Natchez and they submitted a plan they did not stick to. Now it will cost them some more to re-work. Where's the mystery and where's the conspiracy? I don't like rules like that so I live way out in the county.

If you want to take advantage of the atmosphere and opportunities that the city has created you have to go by their rules. It doesn't matter if the old Natchez, with livestock being slaughtered and the stench of deisel and coal is not what they are preserving. They are preserving economic infrastructure that is here because that is what is marketed.

Of all the dumb things to get bent out of shape about this one is up there.

Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur--You really should try not to be such a racist. It is not very lady-like

Posted by shedevil (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

mike...no there is no hate toward Jake...I think Jake is a great guy....I just hope he steps forward with his promises.

Posted by drawpaintsing (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Shedevil, you may not want to hear from me, but you are not a devil after all.

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur, your liberal ideas really are baffling to me. You mention California and NY, but its funny. When that out of town crowd move here they always have the hardest time, b/c we make rules and regulations in the city to protect against nuts moving here and trying to ruin our small town.
This Fat Mamas thing has been blown out of proportion so badly by you and others. The contractor knew the rules and broke them - END OF STORY. Let them do what they have to do to fix this problem and quit your whinning about Natchez social groups how you aren't the popular one in Natchez!

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It isn't a dumb thing to get bent out of shape on Yeahuhuh. Who controls property? If part of that control is given up for any reason, shouldn't the entity control is given up to be elected? Who can vote Marty Seibert or the Millers out of office? They don't hold any office. They aren't accountable to anyone but themselves. Marty Seibert "ordered" the asphalt removed? Where did she get this authority. This is a very bad thing and has had serious consequences for many people living in other cities, even people who thought they were close enough to the inside to be safe. What I am speaking of is power wielded by unelected ngos in partnership with government boards.

I really don't care beyond seeing the Gammils needlessly harmed. We don't even know they violated anything. Laws in this area tend to be very subjective. It is not a small thing to take from people what they have worked hard to earn. Maybe it is just time for the Millers to realize they don't have the right to rule Natchez and always put their wishes above the wishes and rights of others. They may live in a rarefied air of dinner parties where tamales are not frequently served, and they may find the smell of tamales distasteful, but many do not.

Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur, do you think while you type or just let your fingers wander around the key board. i cannot conceive that you good really be that naieve.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

natchezsouthside, I am a white male. Mike, what is liberal about protecting property rights from intrusion?

The article says nothing about any contractors breaking rules. It says nothing about any setbacks being violated. What the article does mention is Seiberts distaste of color, sound, and sight.

You are a typically confused Natchez resident Mike, who doesn't know the difference in liberal and conservative and speaks with no more foresight than to plead, as you were taught, to follow rules and regulations, no matter how unreasonable they may be, and how unfairly they may be enforced.

You are part of the problem, too many of you who are willing to go along with "do as we say and there will be no problem". Some prefer to live on their knees, others to die on their feet.

Which are you?

Posted by xenon314 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 2:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Now I’ve heard it all – Bullseye, you are obviously a latecomer to the Fat Mama’s saga – for you to claim that the city fought the Gammill’s from day one is one of the more laughable comments I’ve seen yet on these posts. EnKiKur – if I had “buddies on the Preservation Commission and the Planning Board”, that building never would have been started.

The truth is, the mayor and board of aldermen rammed this project down our neighborhood’s throat under the guise of “economic development”. Please see an excerpt from one of my posts from back in September ’07:

“My house has been in my family since before Fat Mama's was a gleam in the Gammill's eye, since Miss Tish was selling, ironically, hot tamales out of her little shack in front of her house on Orleans Street. We in the neighborhood have transformed the area over the span of twenty or so years…transformed it from a bunch of low-rent shacks and dilapidated antebellum homes to a showcase. South Wall Street is beginning to rival Washington Street for its beautiful crape myrtles and gardens. How did we do this? Through our hard-earned money and sweat equity. Slowly, slowly, the area has moved towards more and more residential.

All I can do is shake my head at how y'all have misunderstood the situation, and my frustration. This is not about "majority rules"...if it were, then we, as the majority, would have won! This was about our elected officials (especially, ESPECIALLY Joyce Arcenaux, our alderwoman) ignoring the majority of the area in favor of one business, who had so many alternate choices for a location that it is hard to calculate.”

So now, y’all think that the city is conspiring AGAINST Fat Mama’s, when the city is who forced this project to come to pass? This is just too much. And now, because the Gammill’s didn’t follow the rule of law and did not abide by the deal they AGREED to, we are supposed to give them a free pass???

As if!

Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 2:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Do you even know the Millers???????? have you a clue what you are talking about?????????????????????

Posted by viaduck (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"TAKE YOUR ORDER PLEASE"

Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

you want fries with that?

Posted by viaduck (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"TAKE TOUR ORDER PLEASE"

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well see, xenon, that is where we differ. You see the changes in that area as desirable, and I don't.

What of those low-renters and dilapidated shack owners? Are they less because they had less? Is your way better because you have more?

I'm pretty clear that is not the city, but the city influenced by the Preservation Commission and that is another area where I disagree with you. I don't think that should be allowed at all.

It sounds to me like Joyce Arcenaux did what she was supposed to do. We don't have majority rule xenon, at least we are not supposed to. The Gammils have as much right as you do, I don't see how the use of your property is infringed upon at all. Your dislike of something is not the same as an infringement.

Posted by Idefinitelymight (Tom Scarborough) on May 9, 2008 at 2:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Enkikur--I did not say that there are no class distinctions in Natchez. Everyone knows that American society is riven along the fault lines of caste and class, even though we pay lip service to the illusion of egalitarianism. The points I tried to make were these:

1. Preservationism and the promotion of tourism did not cause the disappearance of the manufacturing base that once underpinned the economy of the Miss-Lou.

2. Despite popular opinion to the contrary, preservationism and tourism are not obstructing industries and businesses from being established here.

3. There is no class conspiracy among the "elites," "hoopskirt mafia," "blue hairs" (choose your favorite pejorative term here) to deprive the "average Joe" (to use a term cited in an above post) of good paying jobs. Almost everyone in Natchez regardless of social position would be delighted to see the return of companies that offered the kinds of well-paying jobs that would expand our tax base, improve our schools and infrastructure, and put money in cash register tills. No one benefits from an anemic economy. But we can't do much about the decisions of large corporations to consolidate, downsize, and outsource--how are the "Hysterical Society" folks to blame for that? What can we do? We can start with our schools--how many of you have your kids in private academies? I've got news for you--the Toyotas and Nissans aren't going to consider a place like Natchez that has a de facto system of segregated schools. If you are serious about making Natchez more attractive to outside investment, insist that our public schools shape up by enrolling your kids in them. I realize that to suggest such a thing is heresy of the first order, but it has real teeth.

As for Borat, he tried his schtick in Natchez and he did not get the response he expected, so he went elsewhere. I think that speaks well of the people in our town.

I have read a number of your posts, Enkikur--you are obviously thoughtful and intelligent. I do appreciate that you prefer well-reasoned discourse to slings and arrows.

Posted by noneya (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur, there seems to be a vast number of people here willing to jump off a bridge because "someone in authority" told them to because it was the law! I tend to agree with your principal that a person's property is their own. Anyone trying to deny that there isn't a division between the elist and the poor here in Natchez (or anywhere as far as that is concerned) is a fool! And I see what you are referring to and I in no way tend to think you as being "racist"...just the opposite, in fact. You think for yourself (outside the box for sure) and are not resigned to having others think for you. Keep enlightening people of what this country USED to be and should be again. Thank you! Marty E. for mayor!

Posted by drawpaintsing (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 2:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Man, you all are debating your "hot tamales" off today.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You know Tom, the "Hysterical Society" is a metaphor for which there is a bit of truth. Preservation and tourism promotion probably are not obstructing industry and are not, as you say, responsible for economic changes that took industry away from Natchez.

It is true, though, that since the 70's the focus of Natchez leadership has been away from industry and in favor of tourism. It is true that the whole shape of who lives where in Natchez has changed, with the most desirable locations going to those with more money. This trend is growing elsewhere as well, and it is growing through the mechanism of non governmental groups, larger in funding, scope and ambition than the ones active in Natchez. These groups can only succeed by going around normal operations of due process through the use of un-voted on regulation. These groups are dangerous to individual rights.

There need be no class conspiracy for the effect of class conspiracy to be created. Birds of a feather do flock together.

Borat did get to Natchez, and to the dinner party didn't he? How was he able to do that? He knew what he was working with, knew that Natchez would be so eager for whatever it thought it was getting it would not realize what he is and what he does. The fact that he got as far as he did is very telling. And just who was it he suckered along that far? As I recall, it was only the appearance of the black prostitute that awakened the alert guardians of Natchez propriety.

It is just this, Tom. This story sounds like an attack against Fat Mama's and not a real complaint. Those things do happen and they should not.

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Enkirkur - Lets get to the basics. Do you even understand that the drawings for the new Fat Mamas building were submitted and approved by the local municipality? Ok, I am assuming you understand that. Now do you understand that the building has changed from what was submitted and approved? I am not trying to talk down to you, but this is so basic its unbeliavable?

Do you feel the same way when others break the law? If somebody robbed you, should the robber get off b/c he didn't agree with the law? Laws are made to protect the community as a whole, you can't make exceptions for somebody just b/c you like their tamales!

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Very well said Tom!

Posted by Idefinitelymight (Tom Scarborough) on May 9, 2008 at 3:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur--It is a very real complaint. The Mississippi Supreme Court based its ruling on the site plans approved by the respective local commissions, and agreed to by Fat Mamas. The deviations to the site plans that Fat Mamas has made are substantial--taken together they move the structure substantially close to the Millers' property beyond what was agreed upon, and they diminish the value of the Millers' property (and that of their neighbors). With your praiseworthy concern for individual property rights, surely you can appreciate how the property rights of the Millers and their neighbors are being impacted. This goes well beyond simple issues of concrete color and plantings.

With respect to your innate Libertarian dislike of anything that smacks of institutional authority, when large groups of people live and work closely together it is necessary for them to come together and agree upon certain laws, codes, and ordinances, and to create agencies and commissions that will allow them to coexist peacefully. The goal is to anticipate and resolve issues in such a way as to insure, in the spirit of equity, the greatest good for the greatest number. The Preservation Commission and the Planning Commission are boards that were created by the city government that the citizens elected. Thus, by extension, they exist by the will and consent of the citizens of Natchez, who also agree to be bound by the decisions of these commissions. Sorry if you find representative democracy distasteful.

Posted by viaduck (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"TAKE YOUR ORDER PLEASE"
"TWO DOZEN TAMALES"
"SAY AGAIN"
"TWO DOZEN TAMALES"

Posted by Syoung (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

One or two songs is fine but they play Jimmy Buffett and Margaritaville non-stop! and won't change it even after people complain. I love Fat Mama's Tamales and just about anything on the menu. It was just a suggestion. I'm not the only one in age 20's to 30's who thinks the music is terrible. Maybe if your 40-80 yrs old you might relate to the music.

Posted by viaduck (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"TAKE YOUR ORDER PLEASE"
"TWO DOZEN TAMALES"
"WHAT"
"TWO DOZEN TAMALES"
"TELL THOSE ROWDY B&B GUESTS NEXT DOOR TO QUIET DOWN SO I CAN HEAR YOUR ORDER"

Posted by shedevil (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

drawpaintsing....i dont mind hearing from you...i know everybody has their own opion and i respect that..i enjoy debating with you and thanks for the compliment

Posted by Syoung (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe I won't be the only one complaining about the music because the B&B guests will most likely be resting and relaxing and have a few choice words for the drunks outside their bedroom window.

Posted by shedevil (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

enkikur...looks like fat mammas has stepped on some toes here.i noticed its just 2 or 3 people againt them locating at their new spot.these idiots want to treat the downtown area as their very own gated community at the taxpayers expense.heck...maybe now we can get a downtown mcdonalds and burger king.i bet that would get the tourist rolling back to the downtown area

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay, Mike, let's do get down to basics. For one, there is a big difference between a crime and a violation, between a law and a regulation. A crime has a victim. A violation has none. A law protects rights, a regulation restricts rights.

If a city is going to impose regulations, to act in a regulatory fashion, it should do so in a fair manner. What should have happened when the site layout was done, before any footings were dug, is that the city's building inspector should have appeared in a timely manner with a piece of paper and if everything was okay, he should have put his name on that piece of paper saying all was in compliance.

At every major phase of construction this process should have been carried out. If it was not, there is negligence on the part of the city. For all anyone knows, Mama's could have been given verbal permission for everything they did.

And you are trying to talk down to me, and not being very successful at it because you are not very discriminating. You are not very discriminating because you don't spend adequate time thinking about things.

This article says the building is eight feet closer to the rear property line than the plan shows. This could be due to mistake on the original site plan drawing and not due to willful violation on part of the owners. Maybe the architect didn't measure the site first or something. Mistakes do happen. That is no reason to financially punish the owners by introducing delay. Whatever the case is regarding that part of it, the article does not say the building violates any setbacks, or that it is larger than originally planned, only that it is eight feet closer than the plan shows.

You may not know this, but a favorite tactic of spiteful neighbors is to allow a project to near completion before making a complaint. This is intended to cause harm.

But, aside from that, you really can't take what the Democrat has to say about things like this too seriously because sometimes they don't know what questions to ask and sometimes would rather not ask the questions that might hurt them with advertisers. In every case I've seen about building violations, the Democrat is always slanted against the property owners.

Now, I don't want to disturb your idea of law and order too much, but we have a right to break the law in this country. That is because law, real law, resides in the people and not in the governement and certainly not in ngo's. Why is that? Because any case involving more than 20 dollars can be heard as common law before a jury where the jury has the right and duty to judge both the law and facts of the case. If I were on the jury in this case I guess you can see how I would vote. I would vote the "law" in this case is absurd and a violation of the constitution and therefore null. You are wrong. Our laws are not made to protect the community as a whole, but the individuals within the community. I am baffled by your liberalism.

Posted by rattlesnake (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mike I believe you are wrong once again. The hysterical society the preservation society and garden clubs have kept Natchez from growing to the point that the younger people are having to leave their home town just to make a living.They are against any kind of industry that might take away from their tourism money, because that money stays in the same old families that it has been in for years.

Posted by timnoklahoma (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Boy, SOMEBODY opened a big can of worms here!!!LOL

Posted by viaduck (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Shedevil you ignorant #$&%. There were 20 people listed as plantiffs on the lawsuit and many more on the origianl petitions against the proposed restaurant. They had to pay legal fees in an attempt to prevent this intrusion on their neighborhood. And again, the Planning Commission attempted to compromise two years ago and allow them to build a new Fat Mama's but without a drive-through.

"TAKE YOUR ORDER PLEASE"

Posted by adamstanton (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All this talk is good, but it doesn't solve one economic issue plauging this area, without the infrastructure to accomdate plants, the educated work force to provide the labor it just won't happen, One thing I have never understood is why don't they have a train that leaves Memphis and run through the Delta along the river and reconnect with another train in Baton rouge. the infrastructure for that was there at one time the right of ways were bought and paid for at one time it would make perfect sense. Well to me it would you could fly into Memphis or new orleans, and on either end take either the Sunset Limited to Baton rouge and then take the River Road Rail to Memphis or you could leave the City of New orleans train in Memphis and taken take the River road Rail from Memphis to Baton Rouge. People could take blues tours, casino tours antebellum home tours and with gas at $4 a gallon may people could find their way out of town without cranking the car. I lived in New York and there were plenty of train lines that fed along the east coast and more than one time a day but it surely would be a start and certainly something that seems to work in other areas.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Election to public office, Tom, is not carte blanche for politicians to do whatever they want in concert with the interested parties who just happen to appear on these appointed boards and is not one of the finer aspects of representative democracy. Where is the Poor Persons Housing Board?

I haven't seen the plans so I don't know if there is significant deviation or not. I am leaning toward not, because if there were I am sure there would have been photos with the story as well.

Eight feet is the length of one sheet of plywood. I don't know what the formula for intensity of sound and smell is, but I do know the intensity of light doubles with the halving of its distance. Both smell and sound do not have the pervasiveness of light though; I sincerely doubt a normal person would notice much more intensity of either smell or sound over a variance of eight feet, and this could be scientifically demonstrated in court of the beloved laws.

The fact that these poor people had to go all the way to the Supreme Court shows the combative nature of those arrayed against them. This work stoppage is just a final bit of fit pitching as far as I am concerned; had I been a judge on the Supreme Court I think I would have ordered an en masse public spanking for wasting the court's time.

Posted by Idefinitelymight (Tom Scarborough) on May 9, 2008 at 4:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur--I find it puzzling that you are so convinced that Fat Mamas is the victim of a cabal of local elites and complicit governing boards, yet you seem not at all concerned with the rights of the Millers and others whose privacy, tranquility, and property values are being violated. This is not a question of a cluster of disgruntled citizens deviously throwing up last minute obstacles. The folks who live within the impact zone of Fat Mamas are entirely within their rights to challenge the owners for essentially thumbing their noses not only at the Planning and Preservation Commissions, but also the State Supreme Court.

Eight feet is a considerable distance when you take into account that this means the drive-through window and the loudspeaker will also be that much closer to the Millers' house and business. I would raise holy hell if my property was being affected in this way, and I'm pretty certain you would too. I was at the meeting last night, and the new Planning director was superb. I have no doubt that he has accurately described the deviations. The owners of Fat Mamas must have realized this also because their attorney did not challenge the figures.

Posted by itsawounderfullife (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 4:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Xenon "My house has been in my ........" People and places CHANGE!!! The house is in the CITY, did it never occure to yall that one day something may be built in that empty ol parking lot? Its not like its a night club, or gas station geeeezzzzzzzzz. You do NOT live in a neighborhood. I can understand this delay in construction, if rules are broken then something needs to be done, but all that junk about not wanting them to relocate to that empty ol parking lot makes no sense to me. Just out of curiosity what do you think should go their?

Posted by Idefinitelymight (Tom Scarborough) on May 9, 2008 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

shedevil--if you are looking for idiots, put down the magnifying glass and pick up a mirror.

Posted by shedevil (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

this has a simple solution...if the millers dont like being that close to fat mammas then they shoud move instead of crying about it....it wasnt a big issue when walmart built in those peoples backyard...the ones that didnt like it just moved.if youre living in a business district you have to expect a business to locate near you

Posted by fire39212 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So bottom line...Will they have to take the building down and redo it....

Posted by shedevil (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 4:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

thanks tom..but how long have you lived here

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I just don't think the Miller's rights are harmed Tom. They are operating a business in a residential district aren't they? They must have some impact on their neighbors who don't. But I think they have the right to use their property that way if they want. Impact is not the same as harm. Harm must be tangible and demonstrable.

And I do think 20 people hiring an attorney, though not secretive, is at least some evidence of a cabal, given the history of some of those involved. What are the rules regarding meetings between the Preservation Commission and those 20 people? Are there any? Were they observed? And I think it is ludicrous this action comes under preservation when what was there was a trainyard, packing house, and open sewer. Those historians in Natchez are awfully selective about their periods, and locations as well. What about historic structures out on N. Rankin and Minor St. Never hear about any Supreme Court suits out there. Yet, anyway.

And about that planning director, the new guy in town, just on the job. Obviously not political at all since he is essentially on probation.

Don't you think it would be better, cleaner, and more democratic if the aldermen were taking this action on the findings of the building inspector, rather than having the intervention of boards? Exactly what do the aldermen do anyway? Don't they know the rules, and can't they hire an inspector with enough reading comprehension to understand them?

The city and the boards are also likely to have a very different understanding of the rules than the owners, and who is right will be for the court to decide, if it goes that far. We know how it worked out last time in court. And how it worked out with the blue house too.

Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 5:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur - Yes a crime is very different from a violation, had to exagerate to make the point. However your statement "Our laws are not made to protect the community as a whole, but the individuals within the community." Individuals make up the community, so when the community is threatened, individuals are threatened and vice versa. Your whole theroy of the arch could of made a mistake, if so they should of admitted it an corrected it, not pointed fingers at everyone but themselves.

Posted by Idefinitelymight (Tom Scarborough) on May 9, 2008 at 5:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur--I don't think it really matters whether or not you believe the rights of the Millers are being infringed upon--what matters is that they believe it, and the city agrees with them on the basis of information even Fat Mamas does not dispute. Your opinion and mine is immaterial.

What is remotely conspiratorial about a class action suit where the plaintiffs are bringing suit to protect the value of their property? You seem to know a great deal about the history of those involved. Since you and practically everyone else here slings this BS behind the cloak of anonymity, let's hear the contents of the dossiers on these folks you have compiled.

shedevil--I apologize for stooping to your level. I suddenly feel dirty.

Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 5:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh my gosh there is a vent on top of fat mamas, turn around.
Wait honey I want to see the horse dung and pee on the corner by the depot. Imagine what Bourbon st. or Jackson square would be like if the people there didn't like vents, noise, and horse dung. I have been there many times and never noticed or went looking for either. Life is what you make it and how you see it. I doubt anybody touring here would have either. I remember years ago tourists asking what was that smell was. It was the paper mill. Even with the stink nobody complained much and the tourist biz was booming. I tell you what, all the B+B's that have weddings and parties following don't get too loud or I will complain. And I could have a thousand times, because I live close to a big one downtown. Maybe we should start to enforce the sound law on some B+B's, after all, it's the law, isn't it? A door works both ways!

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 5:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey, I said in the beginning my name is Marty Ellerbe.

How many courts said the plaintiffs property was not being devalued?

The only issue with the 8 foot change is the noise from the ac unit, according to the Democrat. There are a number of ways to solve that without shutting the project down. As for the vents, restaurants have to have vents. If not on the roof, where? Will five thousand feet of grass really make that much difference? How exactly does that harm anyone? The same goes for the color of the concrete.

If the board were sincere in working with Mamas they wouldn't be throwing weight around. Stop work is totally uncalled for, especially at this stage.

This over regulation has a tendency to grow. As it grows it drives up construction costs to the point where only the well monied can own any sort of dwelling or business at all.

Support for this method of doing business can cut both ways too. What if Natchez is successful in attracting someone's attention, someone with enough money to buy land up around the town and turn it into conservation easements? Who can in effect control property through ownership of adjacent property? It has already happened in many towns in the US, and some people who thought they were well heeled have suddenly found themselves staunch defenders of property rights, only after losing theirs.

Posted by fire39212 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 5:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur for mayor!!!!!

Posted by justmeinchez (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 7:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Very interesting. If the Aldermen appoint people to the boards it's interesting that the agreement with one of the MANY boards appointed by the aldermen was broken by the Gammells. Mrs Gammells brother, a former Alderman is also an owner of Fat Mama's.
Very interesting that former alderman Vidal Davis wouldn't know to tell his family to follow the rules...and the Democrat said their good friend and attorney Lathum went to the meeting unaware the Gammells and Davis had not abided by their permit. Very Interesting. Who are the elitists?

Posted by snatchez (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

the builder is Edgin Construction, Vidal owns none of Fat Mama's, Mimi tried to buy the lot and sell it to Fat Mama's. The historical board has a builder on it and if you don't use him, you might have trouble. The Gammills got more than $20,000 for the move and the building was owned by Biglane and rented to Fat Mama's . now the truth so you people that are for or against the Garden Club can have more knowledge. How do you know that no one from Broadmoor is a king or queen. The Marshall family next door has plenty of both. Downtown has some queens but not members of the garden club.

Posted by blueeydlady101 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What is wrong with Natchez. These people are trying to bring in a bigger establishment so that our young, middle-age and elderly people can have a place to go that doesn't include gambling and all anybody can do is complain.

Posted by free_radical (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

He can run against Tom Scarborough! :)

Posted by texasranger (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Old plantation homes,old money,Same click controlling a dying town. If they give Fat Mama,s a long enough list of restrictions and code violations,they won,t be able to afford to build their business. I would have built it in Vidalia where they don,t have as many NITS. They ran the car show out of Natchez,Guess Fat Mama,s is next,but we can depend on the tourist to keep the big bucks coming to the same ones who ran off The Sheraton Inn, they just got tired of arguing with the old fools and left,So did NHRA officals and the racetrack. What we need is a summer Pilgramige..how do you pell Pilgramage??? Us rednecks cant pell 2 guud.....

Posted by CitizenSane (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The class warfare so evident in these blogs between the so-called elitist blue bloods and the ordinary people is a laugh and a half.

As much as we all like David Gammill, the truth is that he is about as blue-blooded as they come in Natchez. A direct descendent of the early Spanish, the early English and the early French in Natchez. His ancestors not only ran the Spanish government, they later enjoyed the plantation wealth of the South under the U.S.

So many of the small minds on this blog think that because the Gammills are smart business people and operate a successful Tamale House that they are expanding into a chain franchise, they are somehow being targeted by the enemy blue bloods!

What a gas.

Stick to the issues people.

This is not about "class warfare." This is not about tamales versus filet mignon.

it's about poor leadership and poor city planning on the part of our elected Natchez officials. Period.

As a result, the Gammills are having a hard time with their business plans and the residents are having a hard time protecting their neighborhood and quality of life.

Too bad. All of this could have been avoided.

Posted by steve_o (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Opening the St. Francisville location couldn't have been this tuff.

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Da## all this.

Mr. Gammill, next time just cross the bridge and the downtown crowd can kiss the side of you they see as you drive away from them.

PS. It will be the same side where the Lord tried to split you.....

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

enkikur, all they had to do to kill the sound is very simply order a sound barrier. I have installed some recently on a project in Crystal Springs and they look great when you paint them.

But the point is that Mr. Gammill did not bow down and kiss the a## of the Hysterical Commission.....so they want to stop him now. I bet if you look at the plans in the permit office that were issued to get a building permit, the vent would be on them. If this is not good enough, then why even have the permit office.....Please tell us what purpose the permit office serves if it is not the regulatory commission in the city of natchez.

Posted by Hardcorps (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I applied for a job at a tamale hootch in Biloxi once but didn't know ow to filet a cat.

Posted by ntz143 (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I gotta say..I live on the other side of the Depot and have watched Fat Mama' s new building go up...I am sorry but it is REALLY ugly. It has totally lost the ambience that made their current location so special. And it is VERY close to the Miller's house. I am not a preservationist but I think that the owners have ruined a great tradition with a crappy design,. Why not build a log cabin instead of painting a board building brown in an attempt to suggest logs. It is really ugly.

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 10:41 p.m. (Suggest rem