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Congress OKs historic bailout bill; Bush signs it
Published Friday, October 3, 2008
WASHINGTON (AP) — With the economy on the brink and elections looming, Congress approved an unprecedented $700 billion government bailout of the battered financial industry on Friday and sent it to President Bush who quickly signed it.
‘‘We have acted boldly to help prevent the crisis on Wall Street from becoming a crisis in communities across our country,’’ Bush said shortly after the vote, although he conceded, ‘‘our economy continues to face serious challenges.’’
Underscoring that somber warning, the Dow Jones industrials, up more than 200 points at the time of the House vote, had fallen into negative territory an hour later. They fluctuated as the afternoon wore on.
The final vote, 263-171 in the House, capped two weeks of tumult in Congress and on Wall Street, punctuated by daily warnings that the country confronted the gravest economic crisis since the Great Depression if lawmakers failed to act. There were 58 more votes for the measure than an earlier version that failed on Monday.
‘‘We all know that we are in the midst of a financial crisis,’’ House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio said shortly before casting his vote for a massive government intervention in private capital markets that was unthinkable only a month ago.
‘‘And we know that if we do nothing, this crisis is likely to worsen and to put us into an economic slump like most of us have never seen,’’ he said.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said the bill was needed to ‘‘begin to shape the financial stability of our country and the economic security of our people.’’
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson pledged to begin using his new authority quickly, and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the central bank would work closely with the administration.
Wall Street welcomed the action, but investors also were buffeted by a bad report on the job market. The Labor Department said employers slashed 159,000 jobs in September, the largest cut in five years and further evidence of a sinking economy.
At its core, the bill gives the Treasury Department $700 billion to purchase bad mortage-related securities that are weighing down the balance sheets of institutions that hold them. The flow of credit in the U.S. economy has slowed, in some cases drying up, threatening the ability of businesses to conduct routine operations or expand, and adversely affecting consumers seeking financing for mortgages, cars and student loans. Some state governments have also experienced difficulty borrowing money.
The House vote marked a sharp change from Monday, when an earlier measure was sent down to defeat, largely at the hands of angry conservative Republicans.
On Friday, 91 Republicans joined 172 Democrats to support the bill, while 108 Republicans and 68 Democrats opposed it. Twenty-five Republicans and 33 Democrats switched their votes from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘yes.’’ One Democrat who supported Monday’s version, Rep. Jim McDermott of Washington, opposed the bill Friday. One Republican who didn’t vote Monday, Rep. Jerry Weller of Illinois, voted ‘‘yes’’ on Friday.
Several of the Democrats who switched were members of the Congressional Black Caucus who said presidential candidate Barack Obama had pledged to support legislation easing the burden on consumers if he wins the White House.
Republican presidential candidate John McCain also lobbied for the measure, according to aides who declined to release a list of lawmakers he called.
Following Monday’s vote, Senate leaders quickly took custody of the measure, adding on $110 billion in tax and spending provisions designed to attract additional support, then grafting on legislation mandating broader mental health coverage in the insurance industry. The revised measure won Senate approval Wednesday night, 74-25, setting up a furious round of lobbying in the House as the administration, congressional leaders, the major party presidential candidates and outside groups joined forces behind the measure.
In addition, the measure was changed to broaden the federal government’s deposit insurance program, and the Securities and Exchange Commission loosened a regulation to ease the impact of the distressed assets on the balance sheet of financial institutions.
Despite occasionally strong criticism of the added spending and tax measures, the maneuvers worked — augmented by a sudden switch in public opinion that occurred after the stock market took its largest-ever one-day dive on Monday.
‘‘No matter what we do or what we pass, there are still tough times out there. People are mad — I’m mad,’’ said Republican Rep. J. Gresham Barrett of South Carolina, who opposed the measure the first time it came to a vote. Now, he said, ‘‘We have to act. We have to act now.’’
Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., another convert, said, ‘‘I have decided that the cost of doing nothing is greater than the cost of doing something.’’
Critics were unrelenting.
‘‘How can we have capitalism on the way up and socialism on the way down,’’ said Rep. Jeb Hensarling of Texas, a leader among conservative Republicans who oppose the central thrust of the legislation — an unprecedented federal intervention into the private capital markets.
It was little more than two weeks ago that Paulson and Bernanke concluded that the economy was in such danger that a massive government intervention in the private markets was essential.
White the main thrust of their initial proposal was unchanged, lawmakers insisting on greater congressional supervision over the $700 billion, measures to protect taxpayers and steps to crack down on so-called ‘‘golden parachutes’’ that go to corporate executives whose companies fail.
Earlier in the week, the legislation was altered to expand the federal insurance program for individual bank deposits, and the Securities and Exchange Commission took steps to ease the impact of the questionable mortgage-backed securities on financial institutions.
In the moments before the vote, Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, pledged ‘‘serious surgery’’ next year to address the underlying causes of the crisis.
If anything, the economic news added to the sense of urgency.
The Labor Department said initial claims for jobless benefits had increased last week to the highest level since the gloomy days after the 2001 terror attacks. The news of the payroll cuts came on top of Thursday’s Commerce Department report that factory orders in August plunged by 4 percent.
Typifying arguments the problem no longer is just a Wall Street issue but also one for Main Street, lawmakers from California and Florida said their state governments were beginning to experience trouble borrowing funds for their own operations.
Pelosi said, ‘‘We must win it for Mr. and Mrs. Jones on Main Street.’’
One month before Election Day, the drama unfolded in an intensely political atmosphere.
Members of the Congressional Black Caucus credited Obama with changing their minds.
Reps. Elijah Cummings and Donna Edwards, both Maryland Democrats, were among them. They said Obama had pledged if he wins the White House that he would help homeowners facing foreclosure on their mortgages. He also pledged to support changes in the bankruptcy law to make it less burdensome on consumers.
Obama’s rival, Republican Sen. McCain, announced a brief suspension in his campaign more than a week ago to try and help solve the financial crisis.
Republican Rep. Sue Myrick of North Carolina, who switched her vote to favor the measure, said, ‘‘I may lose this race over this vote, but that’s OK with me. This is the right vote for the country.’’
Myrick said she hadn’t heard from McCain as she made up her mind about how to vote. ‘‘They told me he was going to call me. He didn’t,’’ she said.
The vote on Monday had staggered the congressional leadership and contributed to the largest one-day stock market drop in history, 778 points as measured by the Dow Jones Industrials.
Comments
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 3, 2008 at 5:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hopefully it's not another bridge to nowhere, I mean funding for another war at the expense of all current and future social security receipiants.
Posted by presby (anonymous) on October 3, 2008 at 6:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This is the beginning of the end. Things will go downhill swifter than ever.
Posted by presby (anonymous) on October 3, 2008 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
One day we won,t have enough ink or printing presses to print enough money,then what. The Federal Reserve bank is the only one that has anything of real worth and they are owned by the richest people in the world,mostly foreigners.
Posted by presby (anonymous) on October 3, 2008 at 6:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rep. Franks is lying. Just like he always does.
Posted by presby (anonymous) on October 3, 2008 at 6:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wonder what Franks cut and the other big wheels is???Millions upon millions,who knows? We only know what the tube spits out..!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 3, 2008 at 8:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The earlier newstitle read: "Without Bailout, McCain Reaches Dead End". Now that the bailout has passed do you think the AP reporter will go back and change his tune? Somehow, I doubt it. Their next take on the election will be just as negative towards McCain.
Posted by crackbaby (anonymous) on October 3, 2008 at 11:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The oversight of this debacle has seen this coming without reacting. For this to wreck just weeks before a Presidential election, is either an incredible stroke of luck for one party, or the smoothest played chess game we could ever hope to witness. We should change the stand in name of the typical American, from John Doe, to John Pawn. I think it fits to a "T".
Posted by NtzMom55 (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 4:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Politics as usual. Government foaming at the mouth, ready to spend money that doesn't belong to them....OUR MONEY! No matter how they slice it, the greedy CEO's on Wall Street will be the ultimate benefactors of our tax dollars. Sure, the politicians were all "frown faced" in the eyes of the biased media. Moaning and whimpering until they got their way with the final approving vote. Welcome to the U.S.S.A. (The United Socialist States of America).
Oh, and Elvis is still alive.
Posted by flylo (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 6:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We The People Did not have a say in this!! Although I and others wrote our congressman over and over. Hopefully we want forget we were sold down the river again when it comes election time for our congress, and senate
Posted by fsranger (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 7:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Today is election day in District 5 of Louisiana. It is time to vote Rodney Alexander a ticket home. What a flip flop on the Bail Out bill - first voted against it, then voted for it. That in spite of the majority of constiuents saying "NO". Big business, chamber of commerce and other special interests on Wall Street carried the day on this one - not the taxpayer.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 8:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think the claim is that the Reagan/Bush era savings bailout didn't actually end up costing much money -- was more a guarantee for stability-- and Bush and many claim this one will be the same way, and the gigantic $$ amount is just a guarantee to make the market feel secure.
Not that Bush's credibility or that of any politician is high right now.
I don't know what I think about it except that what rich folks get from the government compared to the middle class is way skewed toward the rich at present.
I think that is why McCain is in trouble. That and he doesn't seem to think much about preventing war -- he is too busy waving the flag and insisting we not be timid about winning the Bush family's spats in the Middle East with Iran and Iraq.
Heroism for a stupid war is either heroism or stupidity. If you're Republican you think it's the former, if you're a Democrat you think the latter, mostly.
Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think you have a good point presby - Franks has been blowing smoke up our tail for a long time.
yeahuhuh,uh huh, uh huh - the rich folks are PAYING more than anyone else, who do you think pays taxes these days?
That is irresponsible on your part talking that way about the Middle East situation. Apparently you care little about national security and the threat of Iran, how foolish and nieve, no wonder you're an Obama cultist.
I'm against this bailout. I'm ashamed of Bush for listening to Palsen and Bernanki, who are obviouisly trying to cover up something with all this money, those guys have made hundreds of millions off of Wall St and I don't trust them.
We have to do something about the national debt, not add to it and hope that in a short term the value of those bad mortgages will appreciate. If there is confidence in that appreciation, why weren't the mortgage companies willing to stick it out on their own?
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't know where you get your information on the rich Kroger. I pay whopping taxes. Rich folks never get their money very close to their taxable income categories -- don't you have an accountant to tell you how they can run corporations that stay remarkably tax-free? Except for capital-gains, money for many wealthy folks that makes it to their taxable income is just pocket change.
It is NOT irresponsible pointing out tht Iran and Iraq are Bush's little projects -- optional wars -- that were a family matter -- cheered on by the instinctively patriotic that treat our wars like football games.
Don't make me repeat the history of the Middle East -- based on what Reagan, Bush and Bush have done Iran SHOULD get nuclear weapons. They need them.
There is no threat from invasion in the Middle East EXCEPT from the United States or another superpower. If Iran had nuclear weapons people who want to invade them would not be having any doubts how stupid that is.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeahuhuh, the depth and breadth of you ignorance is truly astounding. Regarding taxes, the top 25% of income earners in this country pays 86% of all Federal income taxes, the top 50% pays 97%. The top 1% pays 39% of all income taxes. The bottom 50% only pays 3%, and most of them don't pay any tax at all, instead receiving a payment of one type or other from the government. The government doesn't "give" the rich anything. The rich produce and the government takes it away. As to the Middle East, thanks to your Democrat buddies in Congress we depend on countries in the region for a large percentage of our oil, so a stable Middle East is vital to America's interests.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
kmbjd40. Excuse me for being so ignorant.
Wonder why you are so poor?
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 1:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So far Obama has collected 454 million in campaign funds and McCain 230 million. Obama has collect 739,000 from Goldman Sachs and a little over 2 million from the commercial banking industry, McCain has collected 220,000 from Goldman Sachs and about 1.2 million from the commercial banking industry.
I doubt this had anything to do with either candidate's backing of the taxpayer rescue plan since both have no concern other than the good of the American people at heart.
We are blessed to have two such publicly spirited candidates willing to sacrifice the people for what they know is for the good of the people. Such selfless acts take courage and vision, foresight and quick action. I am going to vote for both of them.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, you do live in La. Enkikur! LOL
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
We don't restrict the free exercise of democracy in our state like some other states do freedom. We feel like if a little democracy is good a lot is a whole lot better.
Have you seen this? Watch it and tell me what you think. It is less than five minutes.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 3:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes I saw that yesterday Marty. Touching!
Imagine all the little Christian children tomorrow morning singing and uttering the name of a heavenly father they do not understand, worshipping however they can muster with their parents' approval. Mom and Dad moved by the child's uttering of a Holy name as better than the alternative. Proud that their children are on the "right" side.
Meanwhile they train their children in the Knowledge of Good and Evil from a book the first chapter of which warns you that judgement or the improper use of it is already the downfall of man and will continue to be.
You just have to let people be who they are, talk to where they are at, and think about how recently you have been just as lost.
I think your clip reminds me of the legions of people who oppose Obama, who organize children and adults in churchs and homes, and (unlike those little liberal clones) who wield the Sword or Righteousness with far more absolute vigor and blindness. This as they support the Republican war machine and McCain's heroism of forgetting to avoid a fight but making sure you bring home the bacon in whatever fight you find yourself in.
Question is, is the liberal clone concept of self any more shallow than their negative mirror image counterparts in the churches --who are much more numerous and much farther from objectivity?
Posted by Kaintuck (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 4:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The passage of the Wall Street Bailout Bill - in record time Friday - was a shameful day for America. Both executive Republicans and congressional Democrats made sure that Wall Street executives continue to drive Rolls Royce's, Lamborghinis and Bugatis, while enjoying multiple homes inside and out of the United States. We never got Osama bin Laden, but boys and girls, rest assured we "got" the largest debt in American history; and if "W" is to be believed, potentially the worst economic crisis in decades looming...
This is perhaps the most incompetent president AND congress in modern American history; completely ignoring a quiet foreign invasion, even after the creation of a new Homeland Security Department following 9/11. This president and congress repeatedly base decisions on the desires of paid lobbyists, representing special interest groups, with no thought to the phone calls, e-mails, or wishes of their constituents. Their power is supposed to come from the consent of the governed, but that is no longer occurring. They have refused to enforce or implement laws for the accommodation of taxpaying American citizens.
Big question: Are you better off today than you were eight years ago? If so, vote McCain; if not, vote Obama. Ron Paul was a great choice, but the media and many voters, never really took a shine to him. So this is where we are...
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 4:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What interests me is a question that comes up when you compare it with this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...
Notice the basic themes are the same, hope and change, and it was this way with each of the great charismatic leaders of the last century, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Jong Il. The political leader simply replaces the former godhead and rises to power on sentiment.
It really does appear to me that Obama is being promoted as a charismatic leader who appears to save the nation from the former capitalistic evil even while being funded by those same evil men, just as the charismatic leaders before him. The use of sun symbolism on those posters of his suggest that he is the rising sun, giver of all that is good.
I think the liberal clone concept is more shallow than the alternative for one reason and that is the liberal concept is based in purely material consideration (objectivity). The churches have through their dogma perhaps veiled an essential truth about man's state, that man has both a material and spiritual nature. Of course not all individuals in all churches are unaware of their spiritual side, mostly the contrary even if their expression of it is covered over by bondage to attachement and aversion.
Charismatic movements make heavy use of group psychology having learned early on it is easier to control a group than to control an individual. In a group individuals will seek the approval of the group while a loan individual will seek to satisfy whatever mix of prior learning and self discovery he holds. While indoctrinating children into any sort of magical belief is questionable at least in the church a child is in a reflective atmosphere leading to searching the self while in humanist movements the mind is directed outwards, mainly to the leader, and the child becomes a group creature.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Or to put it another way, charismatic leaders teach that peace lies in the outer world and is totally dependent on the material and the church teaches (hopefully) that peace lies in the inner world and is not dependent on circumstance.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 9:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, I would comment on what I thought but you said it better than I could. The children are only doing what they have been taught. It's easy to remember a song when you put the motions to it also and kids love that kind of thing. I doubt any of them have been taught about who or what they are singing about. On the other hand, kids in church hear and learn of the spiritual nature of God as well as learning emotional or cute songs. They can then put the words and the motions together with something they are familiar with. Sooner or later the parents will latch on to another "saviour" of the world and the kids will learn another song about someone else.
And kaintuck, I am a lot better off than I was 8 years ago, so I guess you know who I'm voting for.
Marty - do you ever read fiction? If so, try "The Good Guy" by Dean Koontz. Very thought provoking, conspiracy theory wise. Here's a quote for you:
"Fear is a hammer, and when the people are beaten finally to the conviction that their existence hangs by a frayed thread, they will be led where they need to go."
"Which is where?"
"To a responsible future in a properly managed world."
Scary thought!
Posted by crackbaby (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 10:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
There goes our tax money again. Isn't that getting to be a common phrase, in regard to our shepherds in Washington. Go to your employer and request to not have income tax with-held from your pay. Let me know what a can of worms you open with that request. We have been systematically programmed to not even notice our tax burden. The average Joe looks at his net pay, with his gross pay being just a side entry on the check stub. If we had to sit down at the end of the month and write a check to the government, for that months federal taxes, make purchase decisions at stores, that are influenced by your monthly tax bill. I dare to say, we would look at Washington through a different set of glasses. Surely not rose colored, huh? Just a little food for thought!
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
First, comparing the western to the eastern manifestations as equivalent will be imperfect. Eastern phililosphy holds to a grander concept of self -- these folks can really carry a train of thought to the battle. The cutting edge there is culture before self, before family, before everything.
Western concept of self is tiny, not even encompassing nutrition for the body, or even the desirability of a total dedication to anything but the small self. The cutting edge here is loving your mama and your daddy. That is why conservatives get so puffed up at their ability to blindly support military -- it a big deal to them - a novelty to be sought. Such reverence in eastern totalitarian culture is passe -- laughably skimpy.
So two groups singing the same song should scare the observer who values self autonomy at profoundly different levels. We are hopelessly fixed on the small self here, doing well to avoid obesity and drug abuse. Our larger self concept needs to grow. If it centers on culture and truth it would be a step up for us. Koreans might reasonably get a bit more selfish.
More later but gonna go have some fun right now.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by Kaintuck (anonymous) on October 4, 2008 at 4:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The passage of the Wall Street Bailout Bill - in record time Friday - was a shameful day for America. Both executive Republicans and congressional Democrats made sure that Wall Street executives continue to drive Rolls Royce's, Lamborghinis and Bugatis, while enjoying multiple homes inside and out of the United States. We never got Osama bin Laden, but boys and girls, rest assured we "got" the largest debt in American history; and if "W" is to be believed, potentially the worst economic crisis in decades looming...
This is perhaps the most incompetent president AND congress in modern American history;
Big question: Are you better off today than you were eight years ago? If so, vote McCain; if not, vote Obama.
<<<< I like your conclusion Kaintuck, but I have to say that anyone who is surprised at "W"s" Performance should hace did some "Fact Checking" on the Man before Voting for him because "he was the kind of guy you would like to have a Beer with". They would have discovered that the man had failed at every Business venture he had ever been involved in and if it wasn't for his Daddy's deep Pockets he would have been on "Skid Row". All of that information was available, but it seems that the American people only want to believe the "Fairy Tails"..........>>>>
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Enkikur --my last above post is in reply to your question -- it doesn't fit into the thread much otherwise.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Would someone please tell me if yeahwhatever and old hippy ever say anything worth reading? I wouldn't want to miss it.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 5:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
--Thomas Jefferson
"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
--Henry Ford
__________________________
Corrupt Monetary System and Rebuilding the Republic
by Ron Paul
The beneficiaries of the corrupt monetary system of the last three decades are now desperately looking for victims to stick with the bill after they have reaped decades of profit and privilege.
The difficulties in our economy will continue because the Legislative and the Executive branches have not yet begun to address the real problems. The housing bubble's collapse, as was the Dot Com bubble's collapse, was predictable and is merely a symptom of the monetary system that brought us to this point.
Indeed, we do face a major crisis but it is much bigger than the freezing up of Wall Street and dealing with worthless assets on the books of major banks. The true crisis is the pending collapse of the fiat dollar system that emerged after the breakdown of the Bretton Woods agreement in 1971.
(read more here)
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 6:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Above Cont.;
For 37 years the world built a financial system based on the dollar as the reserve currency of the world in an attempt to make the dollar serve as the new standard of value. However since 1971, the dollar has had no intrinsic value, as it is not tied to gold. The dollar is simply a fiat currency, which has fluctuated in value on a daily, if not hourly, bias. This worked to some degree until the market realized that too much debt and malinvestment existed and a correction was required.
Because of our economic and military strength, compared to other countries, trust in America's currency lasted longer than deserved. This resulted in the biggest worldwide economic distortion in all of history. The problem is much bigger than the fears of a temporary decline on Wall Street if the bailout is not agreed to.
Money's most important function is to serve as a means of exchange - a measurement of value. If this crucial yardstick is not stable, it becomes impossible for investors, entrepreneurs, savers, and consumers to make correct decisions; these mistakes create the bubble that must eventually be corrected.
Just imagine the results if a construction company was forced to use a yardstick whose measures changed daily to construct a skyscraper. The result would be a very unstable and dangerous building. No doubt the construction company would try to cover up their fundamental problem with patchwork repairs, but no amount of patchwork can fix a building with an unstable inner structure.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Above Cont.;
Eventually, the skyscraper will collapse, forcing the construction company to rebuild - hopefully this time with a stable yardstick. This 700 billion package is more patchwork repair and will prove to be money down a rat hole and will only make the dollar crisis that much worse.
But what politicians are willing to say that the financial "skyscraper" - the global financial and monetary system-is a house of cards. It is not going to happen at this juncture. They're not even talking about this. They talk only of bailouts, more monetary inflation, more special interest spending, more debt, and more regulations. There is almost no talk of the relationship of the Community Reinvestment Act, HUD, and government assisted loans to the housing bubble.
And there is no talk of the oversight that is desperately needed for the Federal Reserve, the Exchange Stabilization Fund, and all the activities of the President's Working Group on financial markets. When these actions are taken we will at last know that Congress is serious about the reforms that are really needed.
In conclusion, there are three good reasons why Congress should reject this legislation:
a. It is immoral - Dumping bad debt on the innocent taxpayers is an act of theft and is wrong.
b. It is unconstitutional - There is no constitutional authority to use government power to serve special interests.
c. It is bad economic policy - By refusing to address the monetary system while continuing to place the burdens of the bailout on the dollar, we can be certain that in time, we will be faced with another, more severe crisis when the market figures out that there is no magic government bailout or regulation that can make a fraudulent monetary system work.
Monetary reform will eventually come, but, unfortunately, Congress' actions this week make it more likely the reform will come under dire circumstances, such as the midst of a worldwide collapse of the dollar. The question then will be how much of our liberties will be sacrificed in the process. Just remember what we lost in the aftermath of 9-11.
The best result we can hope for is that the economic necessity of getting our fiscal house in order will, at last, force us to give up our world empire. Without the empire we can then concentrate on rebuilding the Republic.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 6:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The Federal Reserve: Jekyll Island
In November 1910, seven wealthy men left the Northeastern US on trains to do some duckhunting on an island off Brunswick, Georgia. They carried all their duckhunting gear in plain sight, so that any snooping reporter could see that they were going duckhunting. And reporters really snooped in those days. The Reform Era muckrakers were still at their 1890s-1912 peak, producing exposés that still startled everybody.
On arrival, the duckhunters moved into a posh resort owned by JP Morgan -- on Jekyll Island.
In later years, at least one of the men admitted that he had never shot a duck, and never intended to. Another of the men later punned that the duckhunting was "a blind".
The seven wealthy men were surrogates of national government and powerful financiers. The financiers were seeming competitors, subordinate to and regulated by the government. However the surrogates were not at Jekyll Island to sharpen their apparent relationships. They were there to agree on unconstitutional collusions between private corporations and government, which would restrict their lesser competitors and allow them to create debt-based money secured by nothing but thin air, from which they and their cronies could get rich by endless multiplication of debt-created money in the financial treason called "fractional reserve banking". They were there to bring the deceits, corruptions, frauds, and murderous machinations of centuries-old European central banking to the US. They were there to keep the rabble down and to keep the right people up.
They were -- Nelson W. Aldrich (Republican whip in the Senate and father-in-law to John D. Rockefeller, Jr.) -- A. Piat Andrew (Asst Secretary of the Treasury) -- Henry P. Davison, Sr. (partner in JP Morgan Company) -- Charles D. Norton (President, 1st National Bank of New York) -- Benjamin Strong (head of JP Morgan's Bankers Trust, later chairman of the Federal Reserve) -- Frank A. Vanderlip (President, National City Bank of New York, representing William Rockefeller) -- Paul M. Warburg (partner in Kuhn, Loeb & Company, representing the Rothschilds and Warburgs in Europe).
US national circumstances were such that the class-race elite -- the superrich -- desperately needed new and extraordinary mechanisms to keep the rabble down and to give the elites increased control. Citizens of nine states had already rammed direct democracy's I&R (initiative and referendum petition process citizen lawmaking) into their state constitutions -- Arkansas, Colorado, Maine, Missouri, Montana, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, and Utah. Citizens in many other states were heavily organized and threatening to institute their own citizen lawmaking. Class-race elite desperation is probably an understatement.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 6:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Above Cont.;
Across the country, elites were being threatened and driven off decades-old corruptions that held vast profits and power for them. The losses of those profit-power corruptions made the wider elites community more than a little crazy. In the I&R states, November 1910, elites had already resorted to the wholesale illegality of overturning the people's rights as given in constitutional law with inferior and unconstitutional statutes.
I&R "administrative law", passed by state legislatures for the regulation of I&R citizen petitions -- proposed law -- had been filled with "separation of powers" constitutional violations, as well as "binding judicial review of proposed law" constitutional violations. Executive branch officials were instructed by statute to arbitrarily delay, alter, and/or reject constitutionally defined, citizen-proposed law. Judges were instructed to arbitrarily delay, alter, and/or reject citizen-proposed law with binding court rulings.
No constitution in the country allows executive branch officials to interfere in proposed law. No constitution in the country allows judges to perform binding review on proposed law.
Any of those violations against legislature-proposed law would find the violators impeached and removed before dinner. But doing those same constitutional violations against citizen-proposed law is just what's necessary to keep the rabble down. It's just what's necessary to gain the profits and power that is theirs alone.
Those delays, alterations, and/or rejections could be applied to any citizen-proposed law. However, the predator politicians have been cunning enough to selectively apply them only to those citizen-proposed laws that are offensive to money-power. Anything else slides right through. This unconstitutional I&R gauntlet remains largely undiscovered these hundred years later.
The natural law of elitists' profits and power had trumped the laws of nations for thousands of years. It would not any more be set aside by the direct democracy of American rabble than it had by English rabble gathering around the Magna Carta or Republican Roman rabble gathering around the citizen lawmaking of the Council of Plebs.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 6:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Above Cont.;
The Jekyll Island Duck Hunting Society was amazingly successful, for all the wrong reasons, and at huge expense to ordinary Americans.
The Jekyll Island Good Ol' Boys Club saw their labors writ in the stone of federal statute when a compliant and complicit Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act, 23 December 1913. Mental giant that Wilson was, we can hold him responsible for knowing that his signature was not creating law, but instead was creating an unconstitutional anti-law regime -- null and void from its first moment, enforced under color of law only in constantly repeating felony violations of a broad spectrum of valid federal statutes. Nearly a hundred years later, the felony violations stack beyond imagination, every second of every day.
Here's what Wilson and the powerful predators of Congress got away with:
Constitution, Article 1, section 8 -- The Congress shall have power -- paragraph 5 -- To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures.
With the 1913 FRA, Congress and the President unconstitutionally delegated Congress' specifically assigned duty to coin debt-free money secured by its precious metals. They delegated that duty to a privately owned corporation whose expressed intent was to print debt-based, fiat money secured only by thin air, and whose many other expressed intents were the interests of private financial corporate ownership, not the interests of civil society or its Constitutional governance.
There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the give-away or delegation of any expressed duty/power to any other branch or institution. The Federal Reserve act was unconstitutional, felonious, and treasonous from its first moment of existence -- and remains exactly that today.
As with the unconstitutional statutes that overturn the constitutional rights of citizens in the I&R states, the Federal Reserve Act is a federal statute that overturns the constitutional rights of citizens at the national level. This hundred-year-old trick of the super-bigoted class-race elite, their corporate sleaze, and their predator politicians is purely unacceptable. In today's mega-corruption the old trick is a growing enterprise. The 2-party, 3-branch, Bush-Cheney Usurpation has made it a chief tenet of their political science.
Cont.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 6:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Between Jekyll Island and the weeks leading up to the Wilson signing, citizens in another eight states had forced I&R citizen lawmaking into their state constitutions -- Arizona, California, Idaho, Michigan, Nebraska, Nevada, Ohio, and Washington. It was not at all clear to the elites in 1913 that the interstate citizen action groups increasing direct democracy could be stopped. The class-race elite had become desperately crazy.
We shouldn't wonder that Congess' majority of predator politicians went along with the rules-violating rush-through of the FRA's passage. The powerful predators of Congress knew what had to be done to keep the rabble down. And they were being leaned on by their most important clients -- the superrich.
In our time, we need to look back across the history of US money and banking, and create hard-biting remedies to these financial problems that daily now threaten to destroy us as a nation.
The Constitution's authors had many good reasons for granting expressed duty/powers to specific branches and institutions.
Coining and regulating the value of money, assigned only to Congress, has a history with the Constitution's authors that is stunningly large and stunningly unambiguous. Their main man of money-first-people-last, Alexander Hamilton, remarked -- "To emit an unfunded paper as the sign of value ought not to continue as a formal part of the Constitution, nor ever hereafter to be employed; being, in its nature, repugnant with abuses and liable to be made the engine of imposition and fraud."
Hamilton knew the Bank of England well. He knew that it had been the model for, and, often, the controller of, the other central banks of Europe. With a bad track record stretching back to 1694, he knew about its debt-based money created out of thin air. He knew about its "fractional reserve banking", which allowed it to create multiples of its thin-air, fiat money with every loan that it entered into its books -- straightforward usury in its most depraved and treasonous form. He knew about its monetary and political machinations in the creation of war, during which it funded both sides, maximizing its creation of debt. He knew that it worked only to benefit its private owners, never its civil society.
And yet, that "unfunded paper", fiat money secured by nothing more than thin air, is exactly what the 1913 Federal Reserve was commissioned to do -- by the same Congress whose members vow to uphold the Constitution. You might send them a note, "asking them when they intend to start", quips G. Edward Griffin, author of the smooth-reading, history-intense book, The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve.
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 6:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
oldhippie01, now your posts are getting as long as those of EnKiKur. Y'all kin? :)
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 6:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Cont. from above;
The Creature from Jekyll Island, 4th edition, 2002, should be required reading for every American over the age of 15. Required viewing is Aaron Russo's 2006 film, America: Freedom to Fascism.
In 1935, SCOTUS slapped down the Congressional give-away of its legislative authority in Schechter Poultry Corporation v. US (295 U.S. 495). After citing the basic tenets of the Constitution's Article 1, the court ruled, "The Congress is not permitted to abdicate or to transfer to others the essential legislative functions with which it is thus vested."
Some were quick to apply that SCOTUS ruling to the Federal Reserve. There were howlings, political explosions, and much noisy gibberish -- and then every criminality of the Federal Reserve simply continued.
(Make a note. That 1935 SCOTUS ruling also applies to Congress' unconstitutional transfer of its exclusive war powers to Bush, prior to Bush's unconstitutional invasion of Iraq. For that unconstitutional transfer, all 373 assenting members and senators are co-conspirators in the felony conspiracy against our soldiers' rights to be sent to war ONLY at the expressed order of Congress. For his invasion order, Bush and his admirals and generals round out that felonious pack of co-conspirators, as defined in the federal statute, 18 USC 241. Felony forfeits all immunities, legislative, executive, and judicial. All of them should have been criminally prosecuted immediately after the illegal invasion. Because that felony violation of our soldiers' rights has resulted in death and maiming, penalties can include life imprisonment or death -- as specified in 18 USC 241.)
Our $8.5 trillion national debt, a direct result of debt-based money creation, held by nations and foreign central banks who, history shows, will destroy our nation without a second thought when their profits picture is good enough, is just one measure of the Federal Reserve's success.
The Federal Reserve's only concerns are the profits and power of its private owners. In a conflict between the interests of their private owners and the US citizenry, they have no concerns for the US citizenry. Disintegration of the US economy will be induced the day that it provides enough profit to the Euro-American central bank cabal.
The FRA is the most financially and politically powerful of the corruption machines that rule the everyday lives of Americans. This is the overarching corruption machine that gives confidence and arrogance to the operators of all the other corruption machines. This is the one that makes every other corruption machine possible.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 6:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Cont.;
The omnibus corruption engine would be gutted and near lifeless without the Federal Reserve's multi-faceted "central banking" scam. We desperately need to abolish the Federal Reserve system.
We have many reasons for abolishing the Federal Reserve and for setting a heavily regulated, governmental central banking system in its place. A pro-people, pro-sustainability-economics central banking system that will issue debt-free money and do fully secured banking is the key to a species-mature governance.
Perpetual indebtedness and perpetual war are two giant keys for civil society's control by the superrich. their corporate sleaze, and their predator politicians. Those two giant keys are just part of the anti-democracy, anti-people arsenal that is firmly held by the Federal Reserve and its inbred partner, the international central banking cabal.
Until you understand the reasons for abolishing the Federal Reserve system, you are simply part of the problem.
The seven reasons for abolishing the Fed, as given by Griffin in his book, The Creature from Jekyll Island, "sound absurd to the casual observer" when stated without their supporting facts and arguments. The purpose of his book, he says, is to show that all seven bare-bones statements "are all-too-easy to substantiate". Clearly, his book delivers the substantiation.
Griffin's seven reasons for abolishing the Fed are --
(1) It is incapable of accomplishing its stated objectives.
(2) It is a cartel operating against the public interest.
(3) It is the supreme instrument of usury [with its treason of "fractional reserve banking", endlessly multiplying the money supply, endlessly multiplying debt, endlessly multiplying inflation].
(4) It generates our most unfair tax [inflation due to constantly increasing money supply].
(5) It encourages war.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 6:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Cont.;
(6) It destabilizes the economy.
(7) It is an instrument of totalitarianism.
Those who are laboring to renovate the Democratic Party so that government can save us should make a note. It is very probable that the international banking cabal's many levers threatening the existence of our country is the cause of the Democratic Party's terminal waffle, flip-flop, and treasonous support of neocon treasons.
Better ask yourselves whether those behaviors show any evidence that a newly strong Democratic Party -- still saddled with a majority of its old-school corruption machine operators -- could be brought to face down the central banking cabal's threats. Could they be brought to abolish the Fed, just when they've gained the power to obscenely excessive profits from the Fed's horrendous defrauding of the American people?
The End
PS Still with me Freedom 42???
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 8:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
OldGrandDad, I can't seem to satisfy you guys! Freedom42 was complaining that yeahuhuh and I never posted anything worth reading, so I was trying to produce some reading material for him,( which I doubt he will ever read) and here you go raging on me about postint too much and even calling me a name, EnKiKur hasn't really converted to Democrat, he's just blowing Smoke up Yeahuhuh's Butt, LOL. Read the rest of that, pretty interesting stuff............
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 8:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
oldhippie01, I was just funnin' you. Everyone knows that EnKiKur's only political allegiance is to box turtles.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 8:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Already read all that oldhippie. That stuff is old news to me and is why I constantly rail against the Federal Reserve. And I notice some others are starting to catch on whether by my efforts or by being forced to by the credit situation.
I am hurt ya'll don't believe in my conversion. I don't know what to say except that OGD, when that beam of Light comes through your window and you realize that you must vote for Obama you will believe too. You might not love him, but he loves you.
Because oldhippie can't see the new Light in me I doubt his allegiance. We don't need neo-con moles in our party oldhippie!
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 9:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ROTFLMAO!! EnKiKur you are a piece of work. I really don't get worked up over any Politician. I am actually a Progressive independent, which means that I Vote Democrat by default as the lessor of two evils, because there is no viable Independent Party...........
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 9:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Didn't need to read it all - I saw the movie. Really there is a movie. My son in law has it but I can't remember the name.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 9:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"My son in law has it but I can't remember the name."
<<<<<<<< See if you can find out, I would like to get it....>>>>
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on October 5, 2008 at 11:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
oldhippie01...You said, "I am actually a Progressive independent, which means that I Vote Democrat by default as the lessor of two evils, because there is no viable Independent Party."...you're fond of calling people liars, but here you just lied...why not just say "I'm a Democrat"...progressive independent?...after all the BS you've posted...please, you've stretch credulity to the breaking point.
Oh...and unlike OGD, I'm not funning you...your cut and paste tactics only prove you're computer literate not politically literate.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 7:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by sammohon (anonymous)
Well, I see that you are very simelar in tact to your hero "Sister Sarah", when you don't have anything intelligent to say, you just start throwing crap up against the wall in hopes that something will stick.
I SAID what I MEANT and MEANT what I SAID. The only reason I Vote Democrat is the "BOTTOM LINE". Let me explain it to you in a way that you might understand. In 1980,(Thats when "RONNEY REAGAN" got elected), I was a member of the "MIDDLE CLASS". After eight years of being "TRICKELED DOWN UPON", I was just a few bucks above the "Poverty Line", then after Eight years of BILL CLINTON, I was back into the MIDDLE CLASS again and had insulated myself in such a way, that the "BUSHIES" couldn't steal it from me. My House and Land was paid for, so while my income is in the toilet, I still have my net worth and I am retired, so I don't need a lot.................
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
PS; Sam., read it and weep;
http://my.barackobama.com/keatingvideo
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oldhippie you know Sam doesn't have tear ducts.
They are a liberal, self-hating weakness not for real men, certainly not an indulgence for the he-men -- the representatives of Sanity, Enterprise and Goodness (Star-Spangled Banner rises into background). Tear ducts if they had them would only be to keep these steely eyed men in top form for heroism -- but they need no lubrication for their eyes as would mortals. These men are too thankful for people like themselves to cry -- leave that to women, children and liberals.
Lo those many years ago when bullets fired over Washington's head and he stoicly watched them with his super-vison whiz past -- it was SAM that was dong that. When the forests were first cut -- those towering giants ready for our country's greatness, it was Sam that felled the tree, Sam that designed the saw, Sam that fed the log, and Sam that sold the board. And it was Sam that nailed it up.
And all those wars fought to give you the right to say your liberal poop -- that was Sam and his allies who did that for you.
It was Democrats who enslaved those blacks and Sam that freed them. And it was Sam that had the courage to treat them like dookey for a hundred years to help toughen them from the dependence they got on their Democratic masters. Sam did that -- somebody had to toughen them up.
And it was Sam that dropped the bomb on Japan and saved a thousand million lives doing it, Sam that would have won Vietnam if you liberals had not ruined it with your LIBERAL media and counting those bodies. And it was Sam who defeated the evil ogre Carter, Sam who developed Reaganomics, Sam who invented lower taxes, Sam who both created and toppled the evil Saddam and Sam who built and filled the jails in this country -- to make you safe. Now it's Sam with that cute smile and those catchy one-liners and Sam all those Joe six-packs look at and say -- she is a real Commander in Chief I could follow. I could keep my eye on her -- nudge,nudge.
Defeat marxist, socialist, God-less, weak, stupid, self-hating, latte-drinking retard liars -- Vote Sam 08'
Sam Bless America -- and Sam Bless Sam (Star-Spangled Banners ends in background)
He,he -- ok it was a bit much but wasn't that fun? Sorry Sam I couldn't resist. :-)
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Dang Yeah., I feel lower than Whale poo poo. I sho hopes I didn't upset Mass- uh SAM!! I'll just drag my po ass off somewhere and sot in the shade and wait for my welfare check to come in............
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
That's what you get for being a liar. he,he!
Maybe if you played "sammohon says" you could say what you want.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well this ain't me saying this, it is a Fellow POW that was at the "HANOI HILTON" two years before McCain got there;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KjsEs46C...
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is McCain on the Economy;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp...
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 8:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Old hippie I went back to your post and you mentioned the movie in it. Freedom to Facism, very educational.
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