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Downtown development puts Natchez on the map
Published Monday, October 6, 2008
Natchez — Natchez Downtown Development Association Director Carrie Lambert is putting Natchez on the map — quite literally.
She discovered a program with Mississippi Development Authority and Mississippi State University that does asset mapping.
MSU calls it “First Impressions.”
“It’s the first impressions of visitors as they arrive in our community,” she said.
In order to get that first impression, asset mapping teams consist of strangers to the city.
“It’s to evaluate an area — look at it to see what assets that city, town, community has to offer not only visitors but residents and future residents or businesses or corporations,” Lambert said.
A few months ago, Lambert took a team of fresh eyes and gave them a tour of the city and the assets Natchez has.
“I wanted them to see all the things I fell in love with when I came to Natchez,” she said.
After the team scoured the city and county, it discovered that the area has 187 assets which consists of restaurants, schools, businesses, churches, playgrounds and more.
“The river is an asset,” Lambert said.
For each asset, a worksheet had to be filled out.
This worksheet required every structure to be named, numbered and described.
A global positioning device was used to get the asset’s latitude and longitude, and a digital picture was taken.
With that detailed information, each asset will be put on a map online, so interested visitors and locals can take a virtual tour of the city.
“This is putting us out there,” Lambert said.
By also reviewing every asset that the area has, a presentation will be given to community members and leaders to show how to utilize and improve those assets, but to also highlight what the area is lacking.
“They do discuss drawbacks,” Lambert said.
Retail analysis reports will be discussed as well during the presentation, which can guide community leaders how to develop the area economically, and perhaps what kind of retail businesses would fit in the area.
“A lot of businesses now are finding a more popular shopping venue is open air, which is what the downtown is,” Lambert said.
Knowing that kind of information, Lambert said city and county officials could actively pursue retailers, instead of waiting for just anything to fall into their laps.
Lambert said all of this can be facilitated through the asset mapping.
“We want people that are bigger than you and I to help us get what we want,” she said. “We want change and we want to be part of the change. It’s going to happen.”
The asset mapping’s findings will be presented in a town hall meeting at 5 p.m. Oct. 14 at the city council chambers.
Comments
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 12:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
“The river is an asset,” Lambert said.
Keep telling 'em that Carrie. Our riverfront is worth more than 100% casino development. There should be diversity with public access.
Posted by NatchezBell (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 5:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, let's pray they don't find something wrong with it. Sounds like a smart lady to me. Go get us some out of town people on our side that can help the growth of Natchez instead of the Pilgrams Rule.
Go Ms. Lambert!!!!! You sound like a winner to me.
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 6:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree OGD . I have never taken the mighty Mississip for granted . This just shows we don't need a big-lane to the river to promote our natural resource . No more casinos, please .
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 7:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Open air stores are gaining more popularity across America because people go into malls( closed air environments) and see the future thugs of america are locked inside the building with them and do not feel secure. They feel like they have a better chance outside in the wide open protecting themselves against thuggism.
Sad state of affairs in this country.
I hope Natchez will look at businesses that pay decent for their future. Natchez already has enough minimum wage jobs.
Posted by clambert58 (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 7:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I must point out that this would not be possible without the hard work of so many that were on the Asset Mapping Team - from out of town as well as locals - particularly, David Gardner, Peter Dale, Virginia Salmon, Ron and MiMi Miller, Roy Winkworth, Kevin Miers, Ann Stowers, Darlene Jones, Darrell White, Mayor Jake Middleton, and many, many others. Also, I'd like to specially thank the wonderful people with the Mississippi Development Authority and Mississippi State University, as well as the delightful people that joined us for this project. This was truly a joint effort that was put forth - so thank you all!
Posted by kpage (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 7:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
southernbelle...that's a good one..."we don't need a big-lane to the river". You get a shiny star first thing this morning!
Ms. Lambert seems to love Natchez and can be a great asset to the city. I hope the "powers that be" allow her plenty of room to prove herself.
Posted by alphamale (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Are they kidding us?
Posted by aak1972 (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The river?? How long has the river been there?
Posted by presby (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If the same peeps that control Natchez keep controlling Natchez,it don,t matter if the river was a 100 miles wide an a asset,It won,t help if they fight over the industrys columns or no columns,the color of the building,tons of rules. Unfriendly communcations. When industry has tried to settle in Natchez,they have to struggle and have to hard of a line to follow with all this historic bull. We litterally as the article says run off prospective business. We always have and we always will. If it doesn,t fit certain peoples criteria, then the business won,t open here. They just get frustrated and leave. We all know that,why pretend otherwise. The rivers is a asset,well shoot my toe. They knew that 200 years ago. That,s nothing new. That,s like a new fourlane will help the economy,everybody knows all that anyway. I love some of these oneliners. I can improve the economy,I can bring new jobs,>.We are going to have progress,but nothing ever really happens and a huge part of that is from dealing with all the bull it takes for industry or a big business to settle here.
Posted by SIOUXLADY (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
HELLOOOOOOOOOOO. Nothing can change if they keep that same old motto. "WHERE THE OLD SOUTH STILL LIVES". The MIGHTY MISSISSIPPI use to be a very prosperous river, Way before the "TECHNOLOGY BOOM.
Industry will being jobs, just maybe the THUGS you speak about can get a decent job. THERE are people in NTZ. that really want to earn a living, but the JOB MARKET SUCKS in NTZ, just as many, many other places. Yeah Yeah the ECONOMY, but MAKE THAT RIVER, A WORKING RIVER ONCE AGAIN.
Posted by riverat (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think Carrie Lambert has done a wonderful job at Downtown development, bringing fresh ideas and new events to our community. Maybe we should applaud her efforts instead of tearing them down.
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
riverat, Carrie is doing a GREAT job and most folks seem to know it. My experience here is that much of the off the wall criticisms around here come from out-of-towners. Or from mental patients. :)
Posted by snapoutofit (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How refreshing to hear "we want change" - Natchez could really benefit from opening up to the idea that change can be a GOOD thing.
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 10:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
snapoutofit, I'd love for you to elaborate on that comment. Maybe you could help us out a bit? Specially since this whole article is about change that Downtown Development is trying to bring about. I'm sure they would welcome positive suggestions.
Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
WE WANT CHANGE???? Change to what? From what to what? From a clean somewhat quiet little historical tourist and retirement town to a polluted, stressful, industrial sesspool? I hope not. From a capitalistic market oriented society to a socialistic/communist utopia? God I hope not.
Change scares me, how about a little improvement, that would be good enough.
Big change is not good. Big Talk is just that - talk, which is cheap and empty. Slow and gradual change is good, that we can adjust to. I'm tired of this rhetoric about change, let's just take care of the good things we have and quit trying to stretch the truth.
This mapping thing is good though, seems like Carrie is doing a good job, make Natchez more visible and attractive to tourists looking for a PLEASANT place to visit where their money brings satisfaction. Now we just need to come up with, as private entrepreneurs, various FUN things to do while they are here. But please leave off the BS talk.
Posted by snapoutofit (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Sure - I have only been in Natchez for about a year, but one of the first things I heard on a regular basis was "Natchez doesn't like change" Since then I have come to love the environment of the bluff, the accessibility of downtown, and the very, very interesting & colorful characters I have met and heard tales of. Change doesn't have to threaten the historic appeal of Natchez if it is approached wisely. The downtown development projects have been wonderful for bringing people "out" - being together enjoying the charm of this town that looks for all the world like a movie set it's so pretty. Just a small adjustment in outlook - the acceptance of the idea that things CAN work out, that not everyone is incompetent, etc., can work wonders. Downtown development is a great example of that.
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
snapoutofit, thanks much. And Welcome to Natchez!
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Putting America's assets into a ledger is a wonderful idea for potential buyers. This isn't new though, the Park Service has been doing it for some time with every piece of property they are connected with.
Asset mapping is a recommendation of Agenda 21, but of course that isn't happening.
Posted by getalifenatchez (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 12:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks Carrie for going to bat for downtown Natchez.
You have done an exceptional job in the short time you have been here... I just hope and pray all the seeds you have planted take off and grow. We need all local citizens to stick behind Carrie and support her efforts! On another note, it's a crying shame that a select few control the development of our river front. We could be another Savanah, or Charleston---but we have local people who will do anything to stomp out progress and who are very selfish... Maybe one day, things will change in regards to reclaiming our river front and making Silver Street what it could be and taking it to the next level.... Natchez has sooo much untapped potential--more so than most of the places I have visited....... Thanks again Carrie!!!!
Posted by mudd (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Can anyone tell me why i cant park my truck at the boat ramp under the hill? id like to put my boat in there but with no parking i can't. is there anything wrong with the ramp? there is a gate locked down there and there is no parking. it seems that this is a great resource that no one benefits from because of someones greed maybe?
Posted by aak1972 (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Lets all gather here again in 5 years and see what the population of Natchez is! I am predicting 14,000!!
Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Seems like the Biglane's might have something to do with that gate? I'm not sure but there have been articles in ND about some conflicts over parking down there associated with the Biglane's attitude
hhhmmm. getalifenatchez - Unless you don't believe in private property ownership and the rights thereof, I guess someone with a more progressive outlook will have to buy that property? You know the ole saying - MONEY TALKS and BS WALKS!!
Posted by aak1972 (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
mudd, hang on Vidalia is building one you can use!
Posted by ericstratton (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 3:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Good job Carrie, but she had some huge shoes to fill in the ones left by Tammi Gardner the previous and initial director.She got downtown reinvigorated with fresh ideas and a dont say die attitude. Two girls from out of town who kick started Natchez downtown and trying to keeping alive.
Posted by lookingout (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 5:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
krogers you say lets just take care of the good things we have......exactly what good things do we have? My husband has to work out of town to make a descent living because there are no jobs here for peope to make descent livings.... i thing more jobs and better paying jobs for the people of natchez would be a good thing....I think carrie s right nathez needs change and BIG changes im sorry if change scares you but that is part of life
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 7:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm glad for the effort given as described by the article, but let's also describe and understand the deficits we have and begin to do something about eliminating them.
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 8:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
sammohon, I would think the Natchez Democrat would have many posters willing to volunteer in helping to create a Deficit Map. :)
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 10:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
OGD...I'm not trying to smack Natchez...on the contrary, if we identify the problem it's half the solution...let's identify them empircally and work together to solve them...I know you understand that, but I'm speaking to others who may have misunderstood my last comment.
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
sammohon, I understood you completely. I was just trying to smack all the boneheads who never see the good because they are blinded by their petty little gripes. Any local "deficits" that you mention are always done constructively.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 11:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The EDA already does this listing of assets on their site. I don't see the need for duplicating it.
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on October 6, 2008 at 11:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
EnK...in case you missed it...they aren't listing the assets, they're locating them via GPS...I guess nobody knew where they were or they were lost and someone wanted to find them...LOL.
BTW, I've missed our banter lately...I've had some computer problems and I notice you haven't been that active lately...maybe we can find an occasion for a haiku or limerick.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 12:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They are listing and locating via GPS. Read again. Global Positioning goes into the Global Information System, necessary for Global Management. Read abut Johnson City, Tn. to see to what extent this can be taken.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 12:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If Carrie loves Natchez why does she want to change it? That sort of makes her a change agent doesn't it? What makes her a decider of destinies? She is just one more of a growing number of carpetbaggers here to exploit what was desirable about the area before their arrival.
Posted by grrbrts (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 12:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
One word.........build new houses..........Ops!.......three words.
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 12:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Aww, c'mon EnK, your sounding like texasranger's euphemistic "blue-haired mafia" or the "hysterical society"...maybe a little chlorine in our gene pool is necessary from time to time...give the gal a chance...she can be harpooned at our leisure later...LOL.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 12:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeah, well, these people keep cropping up. It turns out there is an International Downtown Association that is carrying this story on their site, and that associaton has a definite political and social agenda that conforms to the aims of ICLEI.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 12:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I mean, c'mon, Captain Natchez? And this is for the kids? What a goofy, goofy idea. And the cartoons they will be showing, have you ever watched them? That is the most politically correct bunch of crap you can imagine.
Hey, CARRIE! Leave those kids alone!
All in all your just another brick in the wall.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 1 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Knowing you are going to doubt me:
http://sustainabledevelopment.osu.edu/pr...
http://sustainabledevelopment.osu.edu/
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 1:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
EnK...yeah, well?...sharpest retort I've ever seen you utter...you must be tired and bored...LOL.
Really, do think this woman has a clue about ICLEI? She's just working a job and doing it on her own moral compass until someone can PROVE otherwise.
While I appreciate your Roger Waters lyrical references, you're sounding more and more like Syd Barrett...but relax, I'm the Dave Gilmore saving the band...rest in peace Richard Wright.
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 1:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeah, I did misspell his name...it's Gilmour...sorry, you purists.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 1:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes, I am strangely tired. I converted to liberalism two days ago and at first it was thrilling. I expected every day to be better. But something is wrong. I am afraid doubt is creeping into my new relationship with myself. Since I became a liberal I have begun to develop cognitive dissonance.
Posted by ntz143 (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 6:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Sam...don't you live on the coast now? While your comments on the blogs are always "entertaining", presenting yourself as some kind of authority on what our town needs is a little egotistical......if you are so sure of how we can better our community, why did you leave?
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 7:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ntz143...I work on the coast...I LIVE in Natchez and have lived and worked most of my life in Natchez...I followed the work just like many other folks, but it's experience and not ego that drives my comments about Natchez.
BTW, I never claimed to be any kind of authority except as an architect...I have an opinion just like you...if mine is invalid then surely yours must be also.
Posted by sunkitty (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Greetings Sam, good to see you blogging - RIP Richard Wright.
I do not understand why people attack newcomers and their ideas so vehemently. Years ago I returned to Natchez bringing new ideas and experiences. While most people embraced them, there were others that said we don't want any new fangled ways of doing things. People like me do not make change because something is bad - we use the assets already present and BUILD on it and help realize potentials.
It appears that is what Carrie is doing - so what is wrong with that???!!!???
Posted by aak1972 (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It seems to me that a lot of duplicate duties are the problem. We have the EDA the Downtown Development Ass. the board of aldemen and the board of supervisors. I just dont understand why we continue to have all these so called development agencies when they dont produce development! I mean c'mon Natchez is not that big that it takes that many people to perform such task!
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 1:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I will explain it to you sunkitty. This First Impressons program doesn't come from MDA and MSU, it comes from two liberal academicians at the University of Wisconsin who, from their vast experience at living on the public largesse in their universities, have somehow gained the capacity to plan for the rest of us how we should go about planning and living out our lives.
What do these people want? They want not a little bit of change, some nice things for local communities, they want sweeping social, economic and environmental change globally. These little local programs are just designed to introduce small parts of the overall goal to the people while concealing the real intent.
The social change these people seek is social equity. Sounds good, but in our system of governance we have something called judicial equity. Judicial equity arises from the notion that human rights arise from individual rights while social equity comes from the notion that human rights are defined by the community or state, and are under the total control of the state or community and are to be given or taken with the changing needs or wants of the state.
The economic development they like to talk about is not what most people would think of as development. It is in fact de-development, a conversion of our economy from one of production to one of conservation under a central command and control system. That is where the asset mapping comes in. Under the conservsation economy we will eat less meat (cow herds are the single biggest threat to the environment), drive less (fossil fuels are the biggest threat to the environment), and promulgate less (overpopulation is the biggest threat to the environment).
Environmental change means putting the environment first above all else and regulating all human activity with regard to the threats to the environment. In the final analysis what all this amounts to is global socialism.
The local programs you see the Democrat championing all extol the virtue of community. Community is to be created by planners, from local to global level; somehow these new socialists have decided that community is not something that spontaneously arises from common needs of people living in close proximity but it is something that must be mapped out ahead of time, regulated and guided. For instance, the Captain Natchez program is supposed to be something for the kids to do. So why associate a fun activity with a character who is a personification of a romanticized idea of Natchez? No reason for it, except that in the community planner's minds this is a good way to indoctrinate children. Just silliness in my opinion.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you don't believe me sunkitty, have a look at this, from the creators of First Impressions:
http://sustainabledevelopment.osu.edu/
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
University of Wisconsin homepage for Eric Olin Wright:
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~wright/
Eric Olin Wright's lamentation on the resistance to communism in the U.S.:
"All of this may seem like wishful thinking. Socialism in any sense of the word seems so far off the agenda in the American political context of today. And, of course, if I am right that a generous basic income would contribute in a meaningful way to revitalizing a socialist challenge to capitalism by partially decommodifying labor...":
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~wright/Publishe...
This is the academic atmosphere programs like First Impressions are born in. Our universities are full of this stuff. Is this the kind of change you embrace? It is okay if it is, but I guarantee you it is not the kind of change most people around here embrace when they understand where it comes from and where it is going.
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on October 7, 2008 at 6:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
sunkitty, thank you for your kind words. I'm like you, if someone has a new approach let's hear it and give it a try based on the merits of the ideas.
I do agree with EnK that we should be aware and wary of big, global programs and initiatives, which do tend to be socialistic, but most folks in the U.S. will reject anything that smacks too much of socialism. As long as we are vigilant we should be able to cherry pick the pragmatic good ideas the academics actually sometimes come up with.
EnK...cognitive dissonance, hmm...there is a silver lining though...you could have developed a much more dangerous case of cognitive ASSonance...LOL.
Posted by clambert58 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 2:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank many of you for your wonderful comments - however - one I particularly wish to address is one made by EnKiKur - from where I grew up - calling someone a "carpetbagger" is fighting words - and I am highly insulted by your calling me that - which makes it obvious that you do not know me. I may have moved here from Las Vegas - but I only lived out there for 2 years. I am born and bred in the South - my father has Mississippi roots and we visited relatives and friends here my entire life. My entire family - since settling in America - has lived in the South. Has yours? If you look up the word carpetbagger in the dictionary it states this is a "derogatory term for politicians, swindlers, etc. from northern states who migrated south to take advantage of conditions following the Civil War." Since I am not a politician - I guess you consider me a swindler. Also, Nevada is a western state, not a northern one. However, I did not migrate to the south - I came home. While I find many of your comments interesting - this one I clearly did not and had to address it.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 4:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am happy to see that you are insulted by my classification of you as a carpetbagger Carrie, there are those who would wear that badge with honor. I must beg your pardon for the insult to a daughter of the south though you did not qualify your home state as one of the secessionist ones. At any rate a real carpetbagger would not have the courage to deny the accusation, so a tip of the hat to you.
I am not using the strictest dictionary definition of carpetbagger though, I am using it for those who come here for the purpose of exploiting the charm and natural beauty of the area, often with the help of local enablers I call scalawags.
I was born in the General Hospital in Natchez and grew up on South Canal St., spending as much time as possible in the hallowed sanctuarty of Church Hill. I am as much a part of this area as it is possible to be and I find the values that allow discussions of creating a Natchez "brand" to be at odds with the values of the namesakes of Adams and Jefferson Counties. I am not aware that our family has any registered pedigree as southerners as some around here have or pretend to have, our family not having the necessary degree of inbreeding for pedigree, I take it on faith that descent from the hills of North Carolina and and Arkansas qualifies me to speak as a southerner.
On the subject of Adams and Jefferson, it was the intention of these men, and Andrew Jackson as well (who as a bonus was married in Jefferson County) to carry forth the demand for liberty first forced at drawn sword with the signing of the Magna Charta. I do not like seeing that tradition sold piecemeal for the pecuniary benefit of families who must resort to hired help and confiscated funds to rebuild what they have destroyed and neglected; no reflection on you of course.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 4:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you also for having the gumption to respond in so charming a manner, your phrasing of "them's fightin' words" was good for a smile and a chuckle. I would like to explore this subject of downtown development in a bit more detail if you are ever so inclined.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 6:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
In the days before downtown needed revitalizing, back when it was already vital, before Tony Byrne's "Natchez does not need and does not want smokestack industry", in the downtown area of Natchez you could buy a lamps, sheets, jackets and school clothes, lawn mowers and bicycles at Sears, clothes at Penneys. You could buy feed hoppers, barb wire, hammers, saddles and other tack at Feltus, toys at Tillmans, toys at Kress and have a soda. You could buy shoes and suits and dresses on Franklin St., and jewelry too. You could buy Fords and Buicks and Pontiacs and logtrucks and dumptrucks and tractors. You could buy books and pecan pie and spaghetti, and you could get groceries at Nossers and other stuff too. You could get almost anything you might need or want in downtown Natchez and that's why it was vital.
There was a homogenous mix of blue collar, white collar and professionals all living close to the center of the town back in the days before over taxation and historic preservation and onerous code enforcement.
Natchez was vital because it was based on the real needs of people and not on the imagined eclectic desires of retirees and artists seeking southern charm who don't live here yet.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 6:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here is the formula that must be followed for what is left. Consolidate city and county government. Drive up county taxes so county residents are given incentive to move back to town. At the same time have Natchez Water Works and NAWA sign contracts and/or connect to the infrastructure of St. Catherine Creek Utility Authority; the Authority can begin to exercise its legislated control over all water in the county and put meters on county resident's wells and tax them and charge them usage fees, making it even more undesirable to live in the county. Institute county wide zoning and turn the city planner loose on the hapless.
Have the rural tourism people lead a pincer movement on county residents by talking them into signing use agreements for their land specifying they must adhere to best practices; later have the EPA or some other agency come in and tell the landowners they are not adhering to best practices as agreed upon. Set up conservation and buffer zones around the pre planned city limits and strictly regulate human use in those zones.
Doing these things will drive the people closer together like it used to be, except without the good paying jobs. Where Tracetown and Magnolia Mall are now build apartment complexes for low income dwellers. Natchez is going to need lots of those. Save downtown for the retirees able to afford 300 to 500 thousand dollar condos. Spur all this along by educating the people about recycling and global warming and sustainable development and in fifteen or twenty years you will have a concentrated town center again. This is how it is being done elsewhere in the US and around the world, no reason we can't do it locally. Judicious use of property taxes and water, sewage and electric rates can herd people together like cattle, while zoning and codes can be used to separate them into the desired income level pens.
The most progressive towns are even instituting exit visas. If you want to move your business or residence out of town you have to compensate the town. By the time all the other stuff is done I'm sure Walter Brown or somebody will be happy to write the ordinance for that.
Posted by clambert58 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
EnKiKur, I will be brief and to the point - I think you have ideas with much merit that need to be explored - and some should be moved on - but I don't agree with everything you suggest. For one thing, I don't think downtown should be only for retirees able to afford the 300 to 500 thousand dollar condos. You were right that I didn't mention my home state - and so I will. I was born and raised in the French Quarter of New Orleans. My father, although internationally known now, was a starving artist when I was born. I know first hand what it means to have your downtown exploited - one of my earliest memories is at the age of 6 or 7 holding a picket sign to fight the interstate they wanted to put through one of the oldest neighborhoods in New Orleans - tearing down buildings that were meanningless to the those in power because they were in the "poor" neighborhood. In order for a downtown to remain vital and alive - it should be a myriad of people - and yes - even families. Most of my fondest memories are of growing up in the French Quarter. I love retirees - am related to many - :0) - but one thing I am passionate about is the idea of bringing our children back downtown - letting them make memories downtown - which is also what Captain Natchez is about - by the way.
Posted by clambert58 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 7:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So I'm not being so brief - like I said - I am passionate about this. I do NOT propose to bring business or anything downtown that changes the very thing that makes our historic downtown that which it is - its character - its history - its charm. I've been coming here and going downtown since "before I can remember" - as I said - my father grew up in Mississippi - Grenada and Jackson specifically - and a few other cities - so I - through my dad - have Mississippi roots - and I love and cherish them. I do NOT want our downtown to become another French Quarter - but guess what - if we don't go out there to bring in the right kind of business - maybe a grocery store or hardware store or shoe store or ladies clothing store or men clothing store - just like the ones there used to be - something else will come here - something we don't want! It's happening all over the country! We must be proactive in bringing what we want here. Let me make one thing perfectly clear - I do NOT want our Downtown to be exploited - but I DO want it to survive - and that is tough right now. There are many problems here - several of whch you address - and I do not suggest that I have the answers - but I do have some - and I have a great love for this city and for the downtown - and I will fight for it - and I want to help it survive - and thrive - and bring that which fits - that which enhances what we have. Change can be for good - if it means changing the boarded up buildings into a thriving precious grocery/hardware store like Mr. Drucker's in Petticoat Junction - or somethign else along that line - that's what I want. The unique, memoriable and special - that's what Downtown Natchez has been about - and should be about. I appreciate your answering me - and I hope you see by my words that I only want the best for Natchez - ALL of Natchez - and never, ever wish to exploit it or change it from what it historically (when it was thriving) is meant to be. Besides, it won't happen - Natchez has a spirit all her own - and "she" will guide us. In conclusion, I am not quite as eloquent as you are in your command of the English language or many of the issues - but I'm a quick study. I've worked in the legal field for the past 20 years - and in retailing (including my family's art gallery) for 20 years - yes - there's an overlap - many times I worked more than 1 job to make ends meet - or to assist my family. Anyway - I pray we find a way to make recycling work in this town - global warming is a HUGE problem for this country and is still not getting the attention it deserves because those in power don't care about the tomorrow they're leaving to our children - they only care about the almighty dollar they make today. I have a 26 year old daughter and a 7 year old son - so I have the child of today, tomorrow - and years to come!
Posted by clambert58 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I know I have a lot to learn - and am not too proud to admit it - but I fight for what's right - and what I'm passionate about. You're also right when you say we need to educate people - that is THE key to so many of the issues you raise. BUT - I know my limitations - and I have to concentrate on that which I can possibly do something about. Bring excitement downtown - address issues such as parking, beautification, city ordinances on signage, etc. downtown - and I must say that I think most people of this town are all on the same page - everyone I've spoken to and asked for help - has come through. There is more good in this city than people realize - and that is our richest commodity - the people - the "living" history. Also, unless we bring our children downtown - take them around to historical sites - they will not have the passion for our city that we do - we MUST make a memory for them so when they are grown they remember something they want to fight for! Captain Natchez is not the glorification of days gone by - or days that some find never were - it was simply a cute name for a children's character - named for our glorious city. Be careful you don't read too much into things - this is a show designed for children to have something to do. I have fond memories of the "Johnny's Follies" show growing up - akin to your Buckskin Bill - and I wanted the children to have something like that here. Captain Natchez is a riverboat pirate - like Captain Jack in Pirates of the Carribean - it is pure fantasy and fun for the children. I do not intend to "indoctrinate" them into anything - except creativity and fun. The ticket prices are only $5 - we are a non-profit organization who does not receive enough money or raise much money - and we need something to survive. $5 is so inexpensive - because I wanted people to be able to afford to come - yet still try to raise a little something form organization. We are also splitting the profit with Natchez Little Theatre as they are partnering up with us to bring the show to the children. So - if we have 100 people show up - paying tickets that is - because I have donated about 100 tickets around town - that means we will walk away with $250. When you add up what I spent in posters, tickets and miscellaneous items - that really doesn't leave anything. So - I am praying that we have more than 100 tickets sold. Please contact me if you wish to talk to me about something or you have reservations about something I'm trying to do before you blast me - I'd really appreciate it. Also, one thing I feel strongly about is talking to people to see what they would like to see done downtown - or undone - because it is YOUR downtown - so YOU should have a voice. Of course, I cannot be everything to everyone - but I actually do try.
Posted by clambert58 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Okay - I promise - here's my conclusion. If we all come together - and everyone's suggestions/ideas are rolled up into different things my organization tries to bring about - we all can take ownership into what's happening downtown - and into saving it and preventing it from becoming something it shouldn't be. So call me sometime - I always make time for citizens who may want to pontificate - who many want to complain - who may want to blast me - and that's fine - my only caveate is that along with that you have to tell me something positive you want to see done. I want your ideas - ideas that we can bring to life - that benefit downtown. So - I have many, many ideas in my treasure chest that I've received from many, many caring citizens - and each one takes many, many hours of work to bring about - believe it or not. But - one by one - we'll make it happen - shaping them along the way so they do not detract from our history- our charm - our originality - but using them to enhance what we have - and becoming the fantastical place we were meant to be - and still are in so many ways.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Carrie, here's my point, it is brought out by something you say about global warming being a huge problem that is not being addressed by the leaders of our country. That is where you are wrong, it is being addressed in a gigantic way through the total reconstruction of our economy. First Impressions is just one of a myriad of programs designed around the sustainable development concept. Sustainable development is being foisted on the people by promoters at all levels of the government and it is based on the false premise that man is repsonsible for increasing global temperatures (which can't even be shown to be increasing). Policy supportive of sustainable development is brought down to the local level through the US Conference of Mayors and the National Association of Counties and through the vast webs of non-governmental organizations, educational establishment, and corporate sponsors all working together to perpetuate what is at best bad science and is probably just a clever lie.
Every major cabinet office is involved in this sustainable development business and has been since Clinton established the President's Council on Sustainable Development. Why is it being done? The reasons are less altruistic and more financial. As you probably know our currency once denoted units of silver, then later denoted (for all practical purposes) barrels of oil, now it is to denote metric tons of carbon dioxide. If you have been listening the last few days the world's central banks are proposing a new world wide central bank to oversee banking operations worldwide, and it will be on the basis of these carbon backed units of exchange; these units will be issued directly by the central banks and taxes paid directly to the central banks.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How do you fit into this? You do, whether you know it or not. I don't know what path you took to become a downtown developer and I reckon in your heart you see only good and you certainly seem to work all out toward doing what you see as good. Yet I think you are so imbued with the ideology of the conservation economy you are blind to the influence it has on you.
Take this Captain Natchez program. You say it aims to instill passion for the history of Natchez and that you want to give the kids something fun to do. The poor kids are already being torn in enough directions by an education system that seeks to redefine values for them, why add to it? In a sense what you are proposing is a microcosmic nationalist imprinting program with Natchez as a tiny nation. Did you really get this idea from the Buffalo Bill Black show? Because he was just showing cartoons to kids and genuinely enjoyed entertaining kids, no other motives present.
Did anyone go ask the kids what they thought would be a fun activity for them on the weekends? Any of them over ten are likely to tell you a pirate in a puffy shirt is kind of gay, I had already spotted the Captain Jack influence and my first thought was "Jean L'Effete". Why not just think up some fun thing for the kids and leave it at that. If they enjoy themselves they will always remember it and have fond feelings for the places and people connected to the event. There is no need to try to over-engineer these things. It almost sounds like there is some intention to create a Natchez version of the Ouran Host Club "where lineage counts first, wealth a close second".
How about something like a kids festival? A festival just for kids with no other pressure on them but to have fun?
Seeing your fervor I don't wish to dampen your spirit, but seeing your apparent wish to do good I wish you would look a little deeper into what you are doing and the forces at play and give some deference to Adams and Jefferson and Jackson in whatever change you wish to bring. You have an active and assertive mind tempered with good will so use it wisely.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here Carrie, in a succint story is what I mean:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/nyregi...
Posted by clambert58 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
EnKiKur - thank you very much for further explaining your comments. I love your idea for a kids festival - and instead of belaboring any points I would like to make - I know you have good intentions and are very informed and intelligent - so I will only say that I will look further into some of your suggestions - please keep them coming - and e-mail me at downtown@natchez.org anytime. Thank you for caring.
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