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McCain, Obama clash on cause, cure for econ crisis
Published Tuesday, October 7, 2008
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Barack Obama and John McCain clashed repeatedly over the causes and cures for the worst economic crisis in 80 years Tuesday night in a debate in which Republican McCain called for sweeping action by the government to directly shield many homeowners from mortgage foreclosure.
‘‘It’s my proposal. It’s not Sen. Obama’s proposal, it’s not President Bush’s proposal,’’ McCain said in the debate that he hoped could revive his fortunes in a presidential race trending toward his rival.
In one pointed confrontation on foreign policy, Obama bluntly challenged McCain’s steadiness. ‘‘This is a guy who sang bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, who called for the annihilation of North Korea — that I don’t think is an example of speaking softly.’’
That came after McCain accused him of foolishly threatening to invade Pakistan and said, ‘‘I’m not going to telegraph my punches, which is what Sen. Obama did.’’
The debate was the second of three between the two major party rivals, and the only one to feature a format in which voters seated a few feet away posed questions to the candidates.
They were polite, but the strain of the campaign showed. At one point, McCain referred to Obama as ‘‘that one,’’ rather than speaking his name.
‘‘It’s good to be with you at a town hall meeting,’’ McCain also jabbed at his rival, who has spurned the Republican’s calls for numerous such joint appearances across the fall campaign.
They debated on a stage at Belmont University four weeks before Election Day in a race that has lately favored Obama, both in national polls and in surveys in pivotal battleground states.
Not surprisingly, many of the questions dealt with an economy in trouble.
Obama said the current crisis was the ‘‘final verdict on the failed economic policies of the last eight years’’ that President Bush pursued and were ‘‘supported by Sen. McCain.’’
He contended that Bush, McCain and others had favored deregulation of the financial industry, predicting that would ‘‘let markets run wild and prosperity would rain down on all of us. It didn’t happen.’’
McCain’s pledge to have the government help individual homeowners avoid foreclosure went beyond the details of the bailout that recently cleared Congress. The legislation allows but does not require Treasury to purchase mortgages directly. Obama has said previously that idea should be studied, and his campaign contended McCain’s proposal was not a new one.
McCain’s campaign issued a written statement that said the $300 billion cost of his initiative would be paid out of the $700 billion approved late last week.
‘‘I would order the secretary of the Treasury to immediately buy up the bad home loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes, at the diminished value of those homes, and let people be able to make those payments and stay in their homes,’’ he said.
‘‘Is it expensive? Yes. But we all know, my friends, until we stabilize home values in America, we’re never going to start turning around and creating jobs and fixing our economy, and we’ve got to give some trust and confidence back to America.’’
McCain also said it was important to reform the giant benefit programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
‘‘My friends, we are not going to be able to provide the same benefit for present-day workers that present-day retirees have today,’’ he said, although he did not elaborate.
The two men also competed to demonstrate their qualifications as reformers at a time voters are clamoring for change.
McCain accused Obama of being the Senate’s second-highest recipient of donations from individuals at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two now-disgraced mortgage industry giants.
‘‘There were some of us who stood up against it,’’ McCain said of the lead-up to the financial crisis. ‘‘There were others who took a hike.’’
Obama shot back that McCain’s campaign manager, Rick Davis, has a stake in a Washington lobbying firm that received thousands of dollars a month from Freddie Mac until recently.
Pivoting quickly to show his concern with members of the audience listening from a few feet away, he said, ‘‘You’re not interested in politicians pointing fingers. What you’re interested in is trying to figure out, how is this going to impact you.’’
But that didn’t stop the two men from criticizing one another repeatedly as the topics turned to energy, spending, taxes and health care.
Obama said McCain was going to require taxes on the health benefits workers receive from their employers at the same time his plan would wipe out the ability of states to enforce their own regulations to require tests such as mammograms.
McCain countered that under his rival’s plan ‘‘Sen. Obama will fine you’’ if parents fail to obtain coverage for their children but had yet to say what the fine would be. ‘‘Perhaps we will find that out tonight,’’ he said.
Obama quickly followed up, saying that McCain ‘‘voted against the expansion’’ of the children’s health care program the government runs.
The two men prefer dramatically different approaches to easing the problem of millions of uninsured Americans. McCain favors a $5,000 tax credit that he says would allow families to find and afford health care on their own.
Obama wants to build on the current system, in which millions receive coverage through the workplace, with government funding to help uninsured families obtain coverage.
Obama also said that American International Group Inc., which was bailed out by the government, should give the Treasury $440,000 to cover the costs of a company retreat at a posh California resort less than a week after the federal intervention. ‘‘Those executives should be fired,’’ he said, referring to the participants in the retreat.
The debate also veered into foreign policy, and the disputes were as intense as on the economy and domestic matters.
McCain said his rival ‘‘was wrong about Iraq and the surge. He was wrong about Russia when they committed aggression against Georgia. And in his short career he does not understand our national security challenges. We don’t have time for on the job training.’’
Obama countered with a trace of sarcasm that he didn’t understand some things — like how the United States could face the challenge in does in Afghanistan after spending years and hundreds of billions of dollars in Iraq.
The audience was selected by Gallup, the polling organization, and was split three ways among voters leaning toward McCain, those leaning toward Obama and those undecided.
Tom Brokaw of NBC, the moderator, screened their questions and also chose others that had been submitted online.
Comments
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Barack Obama won the debate tonight.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
‘‘I would order the secretary of the Treasury to immediately buy up the bad home loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes, at the diminished value of those homes, and let people be able to make those payments and stay in their homes,’’ he said.
Does McCain mean the Treasury would buy the bad loans at what's owed on them and renegotiate that amount or what today's market price (the new value) is on the home?
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
((Obama said McCain was going to require taxes on the health benefits workers receive from their employers))
If McCain is planning to tax the health benefits workers receive from their employers, does that mean workers will have to claim money paid for those benefits as income?
What about the people with pre-existing conditions that get turned down by insurance companies for coverage and
if a person doesn't have the money to purchase health insurance in the first place, how will the $5000 credit help them?
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
$2 trillion wiped out of retirement funds
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/reti...
The financial meltdown has demolished Americans' retirement savings, wiping out $2 trillion — or about 20% of value — in the past 15 months, Congress' top budget analyst said Tuesday.
Posted by frogprincenessntz (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Obama also said that American International Group Inc., which was bailed out by the government, should give the Treasury $440,000 to cover the costs of a company retreat at a posh California resort less than a week after the federal intervention. ‘‘Those executives should be fired,’’ he said, referring to the participants in the retreat."
Since he was the second highest recipient of Fannie Mae-Freddie Mac pac money, is he willing to repay the American people the 160,000+ that he took?
He seems to think we are idiots who do not understand that the Democratically controlled Congress is who has voted most of these bad money bills into law, not George Bush. You want real change, send the senators and representatives home.
Posted by lookingout (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Amen frogprincenessntz..
Posted by rhymeandreason (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
according to cnn fact check this a.m. - mccain actually received more money from fannie/freddie directors/management than obama!
cnn stated the obama contributions came from rank and file workers of that organization....
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm still voting McCain/Palin . I don't trust Obama . I believe we need a clean slate in Congress .
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"I'm Voting for That One" t-shirts are available at the following website:
http://www.cafepress.com/xerotopia.31502...
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
According to Gallup: "only 9% of Americans are satisfied with the way things are going in the United States -- the lowest such reading in Gallup Poll history."
Considering the above fact, is it any wonder thinking people are fleeing the GOP candidate in droves?
Americans clearly understand we cannot take 4 more years of the last eight years.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks for the Link SouthernWoman, I like that.
Good Posat N.southside, good points.
Southernbelle you and I both know that you aren't afraid of the "Boogie Man", but we also had no doubt as to who you were Voting for. I respect you for sticking to your Looser, LOL............
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
To tax healthcare benefits provided by employers, the employee will be forced to claim that amount as income making his income higher than his earned income for the year, which puts him in a higher tax bracket and increases his overall taxes. Right now, employees don't have to claim the portion of healthcare benefits paid for by their employer as income; plus, the portion of healthcare premiums employees pay most often is taken out of their gross income before taxes making their taxable income less than their gross amount of income.
IE: Mr. Jones gross income is $30,000. At present, Mr. Jones taxable income, which is less what he paid in insurance premiums and what he paid into his 401k, is $25,000. (these are made up amounts and not exact)
With McCain's plan, if healthcare benefits are to be taxed, Mr. Jones has to claim the amount of healthcare premiums paid by his employer and his gross amount of taxable income goes up to $30,000 plus whatever amount the employer paid for his benefits and he doesn't get the benefit of taxes after healthcare premiums. Let's say the employer pays $5000 in healthcare benefits. This would mean that Mr. Jones now has to pay taxes on $35,000 less the amount he paid into his 401k, putting him in a much higher tax bracket and making him middle class instead of poverty level.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh, the stupidity. First, associating "CNN" with "fact" is a bit of an oxymoron. But why don't we examine a few facts. The "deregulation" that Obama and the rest of the Dems keep talking about, as I've stated here before, was signed into law by Bill Clinton and supported by Joe Biden and a host of other Dems. Bill Ayers hired Obama to distribute the 50 million dollar education grant he'd received, money intended, in Ayers words as written on the grant application, to radicalize the education of young people. Obama gave the money to radical left-wing groups. And as I've said before, anybody who wishes to be President of the United States shouldn't, and should have the judgement to have never, had any association at all with an anti-American terrorist. Obama is still insisting on raising taxes, taking money out of the private sector and giving it to the government, with the economy in the state it's in. Unbelievable. The height of stupidity. He wants to put the government in charge of health care, when government intervention in healthcare was what caused the problems we see today, just as government intervention (or I should say Democrat intervention) in the free market has caused this economic mess. So Obama thinks the cause of these problems are the solution to these problems. That's kind of like giving a person cancer in order to cure his cancer.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The only way we can get a clean slate in congress is to impeach them all right now and get new folks up in there. McCain has been there for 26 years. Palin will be easy for him to manipulate and she will be the deciding vote when the house and senate are tied.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Obama was invited to Ayers house by the woman who selected him to run for her seat in senate which she was vacating. He was introduced by the woman. The woman may have known at the time about Ayers past, maybe someone could ask her, but Obama just being introduced would not have know Ayers past. Obama has also stated that he does not agree with Ayers method of protest.
My question regarding Ayers is why is the man not in prison and why is he being allowed to teach in a college? Is this a failure of US law enforcement?
Now if you want to pull skeletons out of the closet check out Palin's closet and John McCain's. John McCain has a connection to Iran Contra and is married to the mob thru Cindy's father. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopi... Palin has skeletons thru Alaska Independence Party and Joe Vogler http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/0...
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
1. CNN reported. They didn't take the poll.
2. Reagan first repealed Glass Steagle which started the downward trend in fed regulation of Wall St. Clinton went further after heavy lobbying by Greenspan and Congress. The GOP controlled Congress then.
3. Palin's husband was a member of an Alaska terrorist group that advocated the violent secession of Alaska. McCain was a member of an anti-semetic organization.
4. I get a BIGGER tax cut from Obama's plan. Anyone who doesn't think that the rich need to pay a little more so that we can get out from under $4TRILLION in debt is braindead.
5. Obama is not touching my healthcare--isn't touching anyone's private healthcare. If you can't get healthcare (pre-existing condition) or cannot afford it he has ideas for covering people--that makes it cheaper for the tax payer--since we are NOW paying for routine care at more expensive Emergency Room rates.
6. The GOP ran Congress from 1996 to 2006 and the White House from 2001 to 2008. Why haven't they done anything to ebd all the social welfare benefits that GOPers whine incessantly about? Why when they had the votes did the do NOTHING?
7. Mississippi has been run by the GOP for decades. Why is Miss. STILL at the bottom of almost ALL state rankings?? The GOP is NOT the answer. Last place in almost all state rankings?? Please. WAKE UP!
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:23 a.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
AIG got a LOAN from the US Govt. Not a bailout.
Since the $440,00 came from the loan it is to be expected that the money will be paid back. That's what you do with loans.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
From Andy McCarthy who is a conservative writer for the National Review. That is a conservative publication.
"... With due respect, I think tonight was a disaster for our side. I'm dumbfounded that no one else seems to think so. Obama did everything he needed to do, McCain did nothing he needed to do. What am I missing?"
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
correction: Our national debt is $10 trillion. ($80,000 for every family of 4 in this country)
Still don't think the government doesn't need to increase taxes on the rich?
How will that $10 trillion (and increasing every second!) ever be paid off?
Oh, wait, we will wish it away.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"My question regarding Ayers is why is the man not in prison and why is he being allowed to teach in a college? Is this a failure of US law enforcement?"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Good question T-4 Change. The answer is because the man has NOT VIOLATED THE LAW. He has only,( 30 years ago) exercised his "CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH". While it is true that the SUPREEM COURT has decreed that MONEY IS A FORM OF SPEECH, they DID NOT rule that one had to have money to speak. I can only guess that is what has put a burr under the Republicans Blanket. They seem to be under the impression that the Constitution was written to protect the RICH and POWERFULfrom the POOR, when in fact, it was written for just the opposite reason.............
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
SUPREME
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As we speak, ACORN (whom the democrats wanted to slide some fast cash to in the bailout bill) is being investigated nationwide for voter fraud. They are bussing homeless folks in in Ohio to register and vote the same day. The most recent allegations emerged yesterday after Nevada authorities raided the group's Las Vegas offices. Authorities are investigating reports of fake or duplicate voter registrations submitted by ACORN, including some using the names of Dallas Cowboys football players.
Investigators have alleged that ACORN hired 59 inmates on work release as canvassers. One inmate who had worked as a "team leader" for ACORN told investigators that "some of the canvassers hired by ACORN were 'lazy crackheads' who were not interested in working and just wanted money," according to the search warrant affidavit. Earlier in the week, election officials in Lake County, IN reported that nearly half of the 2,040 registrations submitted by ACORN on county's final day of registration were deemed "suspicious" because of missing or incorrect information or other irregularities.
And this is the party you jack...oops donkey's want to elect!
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
7. Mississippi has been run by the GOP for decades. Why is Miss. STILL at the bottom of almost ALL state rankings?? The GOP is NOT the answer. Last place in almost all state rankings?? Please. WAKE UP!
South Side Miss. ranks #1 for FAT REPUBLICANS!! ROTF LMAO !!!
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Also... ACORN and Project Vote have been implicated in voter fraud in 15 states since 2004 or that the former head of Project Vote was Barack Obama, or that even knowing about Project Vote's voter fraud record the DNC hired them for $800,000 to handle voter registration in the swing states.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good morning Happy Bunny!! Desperation time huh? If ANY ONE has broken the LAW, they should be arested, otherwise it sounds like a lot of suspicion, with little evidence at this time. You should be careful how you refer to "HOMELESS PEOPLE", because YOU could be before this Economic Calamity is over..........
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
happy: and what does ACORN and PV have to do with the GOP's lack of doing ANYTHING for decades that would move Mississippi from last place in almost all state rankings?
Please, can you focus on something relevant and worthwhile rather than circus sideshow distractions?
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here is a Video of your Presidential Candidate Happy Bunny, take a good look at him........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAyK-enrF...
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Olhipppie - are you serious - those people on that video have an agenda - come on - give us something more than that - you can find just as many videos on youtube that make Obama look just as bad.
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Mississippi may be at the bottom of all the lists but people need to stop pointing fingers and take some responsibility themselves. Walk outside and look around, what can you do to make a difference. Politicians can't fix what's wrong here only the people can. We've known for years republicans and democrats alike have not had our best interests in mind. Personally I think less is more; less taxes, less government regulation and mandates. They need to stay out of the private sector. Putting Obama in office will help Mississippi how? Lets see more regulation, socialized medicine, more hand out programs, more taxes. All this computes to more spending plan and simple. To top things off if he is elected we will have another 9/11 on our hands a lot sooner than you think.
I'll be the first to say Mississippi needs help. We need more jobs and better educated people. The schools here in Natchez are horrible but do you really think it's the schools and teachers fault, I don't. Look at the want to be thugs that go there. Future convicts and welfare recipients. They aren't there for an education. Someone needs to call Philip and get his opinion on this after all it's his baby. Crap goes in and crap comes out, plan and simple. This isn't the GOP or Democrats fault it's ours. This didn't happen overnight. Someone mentioned decades, well who elected them.
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hippie you must have found an old stash and smoked it this morning. That video is a joke. Surely you can do better than that. When your searching youtude find one on Bill Ayers or Rev. Wright. Maybe Michelle Obama, there's some interesting things on her as well.
There's no doubt he has a temper but also has passion. He has gone against his party with his beliefs many times while Obama never challenged anyone within his party.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm sure you are right MSviaTN, but that Lady was a Sister to a POW/MIA and John McCain is constantly taking advantage of the fact that he was a POW,( along with 600 other guys you never hear about), for the advancement of his Political Career. Why on earth would a MAN in his RIGHT MIND Hit a WOMAN in the first place, and especially a family member of a fellow VET.?? Personally I have ZERO respect for any MAN that hits a Woman and I don't give a Rats "A" how many Purple Hearts he has............
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Whatever helps you all sleep at night...the dems need to bow up and take responsibility for their role in this debacle. I can admit that it was a bipartisan screw up, why can't you?
Did you know that Barney Franks boytoy was an executive of Fannie Mae while Franks headed up the Banking Committee.
Southside, did you read the part about Obama being the head of Project Vote?
The democrats have NO MORAL VALUES!!!
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You don't know if he hit a woman - you can't believe everything you see on youtube - especially those with an agenda - come on - be smarter than that.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Fuzzymonkey, there is a vast differince in "Passion" and uncontrolable "ANGER".
I am aware of McCain's record,( his entire record), he has Voted 91.5% With George Bush. Obama hasen't been in the Political Game as long as McCain, he is fresh and NEW and that is what AMERICA is looking for and he is going to be your new President and the sooner you learn to accept that fact, the easier it will be for you, LOL..........
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Personally I think less is more; less taxes, less government regulation and mandates. They need to stay out of the private sector."
[with a Dem] "Lets see more regulation, socialized medicine, more hand out programs, more taxes. All this computes to more spending plain and simple."
The GOP in Miss. has done all the above for decades in Miss. The GOP ran Congress and the White House and did it.
But somehow Obama is the bad guy? What? Obama hasn't been the tax and spender and regulator in Miss. The GOP has! They have been the ones with NO ideas. The GOP has kept Miss at the bottom of state rankings.
Yet you blame Obama??
You can't blame Obama for doing what the GOP has done here in Miss and at the Fed level!!
You want to vote for McCain but he is part of the problems you cite! What kind of logic is that????
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well we all know who has what agenda here don't we. I'm not trying to convience you, because your Vote won't count. Obama already has enough Electorial College Votes to win the Election, so all of this a lot to do about nothing, kinda like our MONEY,HUH...............
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Happy:
McCain walks out on an ailing wife and his children to take up with a rich younger woman and you want to talk morals??
Palin's teenage daughter is knocked up because her parents are to self-involved to stay home and supervise their child and you want to talk morals?
McCain was a member of an antisemetic organization and you want to talk morals?
The GOP has run Mississippi into the ground and you want to talk morals?
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well MSviaTN, a few of the folks on here believe that youtube is the gospel...
southside...Obama is also part of the problem, a big part in fact. McCain at least tried to put a bill together to pull in Fannie and Freddie's reigns while Obama sat around with his thumb up his butt doing his normal business...NOTHING!
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is his wife how does he discount this. I guess he doesn't know her or her views either. Un-American wife, crazy white hating preacher and militant friends. Birds of a feather flock together.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
happy: so what if Frank knows someone at Fannie Mae? How desperate can you be??
There are a couple thousand people working on the campus of Fannie Mae. Most DC people know someone there. BFD.
Hell, I'll bet there are Muslims working at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Who cares about Project Vote? No one! NO. ONE.
We care about the economy. Afghanistan. Palestine and Israel. Gasoline and Oil. Hurricane recovery.
Not some stupid 5 second sound bite.
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is his wife how does he discount this. I guess he doesn't know her or her views either. Un-American wife, crazy white hating preacher and militant friends. Birds of a feather flock together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sl2QifoS...
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
PLEASE I am referring to political morals, you dems are ridiculous. You don't know the situation surrounding his ex-wife other than what the liberal media has reported, and teenage pregnancy happens on a daily basis...give me a break.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Happy: BS. Obama didn't grandstand and "suspend" his campaign. He worked behind the scenes without trying to grandstand. McCain spent his time at his campaign headquarters--NOT on the Hill working.
Get your facts straight.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So when a Governor who mandates abstinance only education in public school's own child gets knocked up, we are suppose to just ignore it?
HYPOCRISY!!!!!!!!!
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh--so you want moral LOOPHOLES!!
Typical GOPers. Lots and lots of LOOPHOLES!
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh and for polical morals--you mean the morals that got McCain mixed up with Charles Keating and the Keating 5 and the savings and loan fiasco that Keating's bank cost the taxpayers $4 billion? Oh THOSE morals.
Yeah. Keep digging the GOP grave.
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
discount this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dZDtOAIl...
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Frank doesn't just know him, they lived together (in the biblical sense) from 90-98. He was a Fannie Mae executive at the forefront of the agency’s push to relax lending restrictions.
I care about Project Vote because they are illegally registering DEMOCRATS because they are on Obama's payroll. How can we possibly have a fair election?? I hope they arrest every one of them.
If you truly cared about the economy, you wouldn't be voting to become a Socialist nation!
If you truly cared about Oil, you'd be pro drilling.
If you truly cared about Israel, you'd be voting for McCain.
Afganistan...ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Obama is going to demilitarize our country, leaving IRAN wide open to blow Israel off the planet. Also, Iran's test shots have been straight up into space, they can easily wipe out everything electronic by sending a nuke into space. But not to fear, I'm sure the messiah can go over and talk sweet to him and he'll play nice.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
..and Happy, as I have told you a billion times--i am not a Democrat or a liberal.
I am an Independent Moderate.
The GOP ignoring us Ind. Mods. and governing only for the radical right is the reason they will lose this election.
Independent Moderates. There aren't many in Mississippi. That is why Mississippi is in the hole it has been in for decades.
Let's not make the rest of the US like Mississippi .
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southside, McCain was acquitted because he did nothing wrong in the Keating 5 scandal.
Sex ed is not going to stop any teenege kid from having sex! STUPIDITY!!!!
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southside, McCain is a moderate as they come...so why are you swinging so far left???
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Proper parently and parental supervision will keep a child from getting knocked up! So will condoms and the pill--but they don't fall under Palin's Abstinance ONly education!
The Keating 5 scandal hangs around his neck. He scraped by by the skin of his teeth. He even apologised for his actions.
You don't apologise when you aren't guilty of something.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am SO not far left. SOOOOooo not.
McCain is NOT a moderate. Cutting medicare coverage is not a moderate policy. Cutting $1.3 trillion from medicare is a far right idea.
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
He's a liar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPTl4s_xI...
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well good luck with that, if Obama is elected, there will be an even further loss of jobs, resulting in a huge increase and drain to the welfare system, and as we all know, welfare pays folks to have babies...and the babies daddy's won't work because the child support is garnished from their pay. It's a neverending cycle.
I learned sex ed in school and a lot of my classmates got pregnant, it will happen!
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry honey, but if you are voting for Obama you are SOOOOO left, he is as liberal as they come!
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You mean more than the 400,000 we've lost so far this year?
Job loses will be an outfall of the disasterous economy we are in NOW and have been for 2 years--NOT because Obama takes office in January.
You would be wise to remember that.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Again--labeling anyone who doesn't agree with the GOP a liberal, and ignoring our positions, is what will cost the GOP this election.
You can't win with only the far right base. You need us in the middle. This election will prove it.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Take a hard look at his corporate tax policy. Take a hard look at his plans to increase the capital gains tax. Better yet, go take an economics course.
If the federal government would stay out of it, we'd be in much better shape.
Increasing corporate taxes will eliminate jobs...if you disagree with that statement, you're crazy. Increasing the capital gains tax will reduce investment...well golly that will just destroy the market won't it now.
If the government would suspend the capital gains tax, eliminate corporate taxes, and remove the mark to market provision, the economy would fix itself!
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchezsouthside, I'll respond to your post point by point:
1. My reference to CNN was about "fact checking," not polling.
2. You're correct that the GOP did control Congress when Clinton signed the deregulation bill. But I could have sworn the President has the power to veto legislation. Hm. Not to mention, as I stated in my first post, Joe Biden voted for the bill along with numerous other Dems. You remember Joe Biden right? He's the guy who said Obama wasn't experienced enough to be President during one of the primary debates and also stated that Obama's support of the funding cuts to the military would cost American lives. Am I ringing any bells? Oh, yeah, and he's also Obama's running mate.
3. As to the Palin stuff, that idiocy isn't worthy of response. You should spend less time reading liberal blogs.
4. So you think you'll get a bigger tax cut from Obama. I wonder if it'll be as big as the middle class tax cut that we all got from Clinton? Wait a minute. Clinton promised a middle class tax cut when he was running for President, but instead raised middle class taxes when he was elected. How strange, a Democrat candidate lying about tax cuts. Maybe you should look at Obama's record concerning tax cuts before you start buying into his campaign rhetoric. Just a thought.
5. Obama's healthcare plan is a government mandated plan. Period. To get an idea of how well those government plans work take a look at Canada and Great Britain. Not a pretty picture.
6. Do you remember the Welfare Reform bill from back in the 90's. That was a Republican bill. Plus, as I'll explain again for the tenth time, just because a party has a majority in Congress doesn't mean they can do whatever they want. If they don't have a fillibuster proof majority, practically everything they propose can be blocked. For example, the legislation that McCain co-authored to prevent the financial meltdown we're seeing today was blocked by the Democrat's even though the Republicans controlled Congress.
7. The top 25% of wage earners pay 86% of all income taxes. The top 1% pay 39% of income taxes. The bottom 50% account for just 3%, and that is misleading because nearly 40% of the 50 don't pay any tax at all, instead receiving money from the government in one form or other. But what you and every other idiot liberal don't seem to be able to grasp is that government spending is the problem, not taxation. This mentality that people who are successful should be punished through higher taxation is counterproductive and, at a time like this, stupid. At any time actually.
-Oldhippie, I didn't realize that when Ayers bombed the Congress and Pentagon he was just exercising his right to free speech. I guess that's all the 9/11 terrrorists were doing as well, huh?
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sure, cut all those taxes. Yes. I agree.
But with $10 trillion in debt, what will we use to pay that off? How long before China stops buying our debt?
Cut spending you say? Sure. Hack back what? Social Security? Medicare? Defense? Highways? FAA? FDA? NIH?
Pick any combination of letters. Taxes fund our goverment. Where are you going to get $10 trillion to pay off the debt--to say nothing of just paying to RUN the govt???
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southernbelle,
After hearing the claims, I shared your concern about Barack Obama's patriotism and christianity.
I trust my judgement. I read, watched, listened, looked at his wife, looked at his children, listened to Rev. Wright's entire sermon, looked at the person William Ayers is today.
Didn't find anything to support the claims.
I trust ex-President Jimmy Carter, Senator Biden and Senator Kennedy enough to believe they would not support a muslim for U.S. president.
I trust John McCain's judgement enough to believe that he would take his case to the U.S. Congress House Committee on Unamerican Activities or to Homeland Security if he truly believes Senator Obama is a muslim.
I
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchezsouthside, so we've had a bad economy for the last two years. Hm, I seem to recall that some election occurred in 2006 (that's 2 years ago, I didn't want you to get a headache doing the math) in which the Dems took over both houses of Congress. Purely a coincidence, I'm sure.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
2. Was bi-partisan agreement--NOT just Clinton. Bi-PARTISAN
3. It's fact.
5. If you have private health insurance, Obama's plan doesn't touch you. It mandates coverage for children and protect those with pre-existing conditions who cannot get private health insurance. it is NOT socialized medicine.
6. I know how DC works--spare me the lecture. So then don't blame Dems for having to work in the same system that you use to defend the GOP
7. A regressive tax hits the poor harder because it affects the fewer dollars in the poor's pocket.
8. Sure govt spending is the problem--that would be the GOP mega-spending that Bush NEVER vetoed for 6 years????
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
don't be simplistic kmbjd
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southernwoman: You are a liar. A bold faced liar. You know Obama is not a muslim. He has said he is a christian. You are nothing but a liar.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Why is a muslim president so bad? e have muslims in Congress. We have muslims in the military. We have 1000s of muslims working all over our federal government. We have 100,000s of muslims living in the USA.
So why would a muslim be a bad president?
The US Constitution doesn't give us freedom of religion--except Islam.
Sad that people have such bigotry.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
happybunny
Whatever helps you all sleep at night...the dems need to bow up and take responsibility for their role in this debacle. I can admit that it was a bipartisan screw up, why can't you?<<<<<<<<< Well because from 2000 to 2006 the Republicans had TOTAL CONTROLE of the Presidency, the Congress and The Senate,( Not to mention the Supreme Court). In 2006 the Democrats won both Houses of Congress BUT, by only ONE VOTE in the Senate, where it takes 60 Votes to get anything done that the other side dosen't want done and you can look at the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD and it will show you all of the things that the Democrats tryed to do, only to be blocked by the republicans. Does that explain it for you??>>>>>>>>
Did you know that Barney Franks boytoy was an executive of Fannie Mae while Franks headed up the Banking Committee. <<<<<<< NO, I confess that I didn't know that Barnet Franks even had a "BOY TOY". I did however, know that JOHN MC CAIN'S Campaign MANAGER was a Lobbyist for Fanny and Freddy. McCain said that he hadn't been associated with them in over a year, then it was discovered that his Firm had recieved a $15,000. Check from them the previous Month.>>>>>>>>>>>
Southside, did you read the part about Obama being the head of Project Vote?
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes southside, it was a bipartisan bill, as I pointed out. My point was, the deregulation that the Dems want to blame on the problems we're having today didn't come from Bush. And didn't cause the problems we're having today. The root of this problem lie with Fannie and Freddie, who the Dems have protected and promoted, even when Greenspan and the Repubs warned that exactly what is happening now was going to happen. Government intervention in the private markets pushed by the Dems. And now disaster. The Palin claim has been completely discredited. Your points in 6 and 7 don't even make sense. For one, we have a progressive tax system, not regressive. And you'll get no argument from me about spending under Bush. I couldn't agree more. But the fact of the matter is, McCain is the only one who is addressing spending. How do we pay for govt? Do you realize that if we kept spending at its current level or just adjusted outlays at the rate of inflation, we could balance the Federal budget in just a few short years? What most people don't understand is that, when the Dems talk about Republicans wanting to cut this or that, they're not talking about cuts at all. What happens is, for example, the Dems will propose a 15% increase in some agencies budget, say Medicare, and the Repubs will say lets keep it to a 7% increase, and then the Dems call it a cut. Only the Dems can call an increase a cut. Unbelievable. Rhetorical nonsense, the left's lifeblood. McCain's not proposing any tax cut for the so-called rich. He's talking about keeping rates where they are right now. But regardless, this may come as a suprise to you since you obviously have no real knowledge of history, but when we cut taxes, revenues to the government increase because of increased economic activity. It works every time. With healthcare, I will reiterate: Government intervention is what caused the problems and Obama's plan is govt intervention.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
natchezsouthside (
southernwoman: You are a liar. A bold faced liar. You know Obama is not a muslim. He has said he is a christian. You are nothing but a liar.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<N.S.S. Southern woman is on our side. I think you need to go back and re-read that post,( From the Biginning) and I am sure you will feel perhaps an apology would be in order,( We all make mistakes).......>>>>>>>>>>
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That just goes to show that southside can read but comprehending what is being read is another story :-)
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmbjd40 ( McCain is the only one who is addressing spending. How do we pay for govt?
<<<<<<<<<<<<< REALLY???? Then who was that little bald headed white Guy out there on Stage last night telling the American People that he was going to give them everything that Obama was, but MORE and HE WASN"T GOING TO RAISE ANY ONE"S TAXES???????? AM I just a cynic or does that smell like BUL*-S*IT to you to??
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MSviaTN
That just goes to show that southside can read but comprehending what is being read is another story :-)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<To be fair, S.Side was in the heat of battle and got a little excited, LOL,(Been there and done that), thats why I read and then re-read, now, LOL.........>>>>>>>>>..
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_a...
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hippie, apparently I was watching a different debate. McCain said "he was going to give them everything that Obama was, but more?" Please outline for me all the things that the two of them are giving to us because I must have missed that part.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Amen kmb, notice they do not respond to things that make sense, they just regress back to the party line.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok, so I admit to being wrong in some of my previous comments when I wrote that John McCain has 10 near million dollar home...lol...let me clear that up, some of them cost closer to 3 million.
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/49248-mcca...
Have a look inside one of McCain's homes that FYI is for sale if you can afford the purchase.
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/49722-step...
Many doctors say McCain should release his medical records to the public. If McCain should be elected and pass away while in office, Palin would become the next president. http://therealmccain.com/doctors/
http://therealmccain.com/blog/
Looks like we’re not the only ones concerned about McCain’s health records being released. On The Beltway Boys, FOX’s Mort Kondracke conveyed his apprehension regarding the possible recurrence of McCain’s melanoma. Kondracke told Fred Barnes that he wouldn’t be satisfied if someone as unqualified as Sarah Palin had to take over because McCain’s cancer had returned, and he said the American people shouldn’t be either.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What does McCain's houses have to do with anything? Why is the left so obsessed with the success of others. Except Democrats, of course. John Kerry is after all the richest Senator. And McCain has released his medical records.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
McCain looks like a fool standing next to Obama.
Nasty old man who talks in riddles and insults others.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmb, they are not voting based on the actual issues, don't be silly.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Get Breaking News Alerts
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Share Print CommentsIn an interview with the right-wing magazine Newsmax yesterday, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) called Sen. Barack Obama's worldview "naive." Asked if Obama had "the right stuff to bomb Iran if it came to that level," Lieberman replied, "I worry about that":
<<<<<<<<< Thank goodness for a rational Candidate for President. Happybunny, You will notice that this quote came from the Same "RIGHT WING RAG" you you apparently read.............>>>>>>>>>
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
if I misunderstood southernwoman my apologies.
As for kmb: look, the poll numbers and the comments from even rightwingers in support of Obama make it clear that the wheels are off the McCain bus.
You have twisted logic in your comments above. You blame Dems for the legislative process but excuse the GOP, when they are both working in the same processes. Typical.
You also say if we hold spending we will balance the budget...maybe that is true. But what about the $10 trillion in debt? Without cutting you cannot make serious inroads on the debt. That requires both sides, but you just want to blame the Dems.
Oh, and somehow, in your twisted logic it's OK when GOPers say not voting to make permanent tax cuts is a vote for raising taxes.
Greenspan said he doesn't support tax cuts paid for with more gov't borrowing. Well that is what we have had for 8 years and what we cannot afford for 4 more years.
Finally, we have a regressive tax structure. The impact of taxes is harsher on the poor than they are on the rich.
10% of 15,000 is harsher and 27% of 100,000--and then add in deductions that the poor cannot take. It's regressive.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can understand the dummies of the GOP reflex voters supporting McCain for a while -- if they ignore Bush records then you gotta figure they are thick-skulled.
But time after time Obama has more on the ball than McCain, the VP's don't have a contest either.
And all the lies the TV truth squads hang McCain and Palin for but only rarely hang anything like that on Obama -- folks who are still with McCain look dumber and dumber the longer it goes on.
What's amazing is that the misinformation has been explained to these dummies on the ND board -- but they still repeat the same questions as if another day means they have to rethink everything.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I just finished watching the REPUBLICAN TREASURY SECRETARY say they were going to use Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac to buy up the "BAD PAPER" out there to try to straighten up the Economy. NOW, I keep hearing the REPUBLICANS here and their Presidental Candidate Ragging on FREDDY and FANNYas the "VILLAN" that is to blame for the whole mess. Am I the only one confused here???
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Please huhuh, supply us with specifics, I am interested in hearing them.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes hippie you are confused. Everyone is blaming the Fannie and Freddie's former executives for doing Clinton's bidding in the name of socialist supremacy. They didn't stand alone, and your messiah stood by and held out his hand as McCain co-authored a bill that would have prevented this mess.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The GOP had YEARS to make all sorts of changes to the federal government. Things that would have made the whole country better. But they played politics over and over. No compromise. No bipartisanship. Their way or the highway. Hell the GOP shut down the US government rather than govern WITH the Dems.
This same GOP mismanagement is alive and thriving here in Mississippi. This state is a wreck! 49th or 50th in ranking after rankin. Why? GOP mismanagement. They refuse to compromise so they run this state into the ground.
With decades of control in Jackson, where is all the hallowed smaller government, less social welfare, and less taxes in Mississippi? Where is government efficiency? Where are all the fabulous government projects that move Mississippi to 45th? 30th? 15th place, and out of 50 place?
How any Mississippian can say the GOP is the answer, and at the same time be proud of the utter wreck this state is in after decades of GOP rule defies any logic. There can be NO logic in supporting the GOP when you look at the train wreck that is Mississippi.
This state has been run by gross GOP incompetence.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"McCain co-authored a bill that would have prevented this mess."
A bill that even his own GOP colleagues wouldn't support. Some bill, eh? Funny, GOPers don't support it and yet it is all the Dems fault.
Of course to people with blinders on the GOP is faultless.
Right happy?
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southside, like it or not, local governement is to blame for the most part. We lost our industry at the hands of the local government, not on the federal or state level.
Mississippi has always been at the bottom along with most of the true Southern states. It must be in the water...
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Again, I fault both parties, it was a bipartisan screw up. Why can't you admit that?
At least he had the foresight to see the trainwreck that was coming! Obama just stood there with his hand out and voted it down with the rest of them.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
from conservative blogger Andrew Sullivan:
Palin's Sheriff
Did the cop berating Barack Hussein Obama in uniform for the Palin mob violate the Hatch Act? The feds are investigating, as they should.
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchezsouthside - you keep bringing up how MS is in 50th place - one of the main reasons they stay in 50th place is because there are so many people with your mentality that live there!! It is not just the government that makes it be in the 50th place - it is a whole host of factors - i.e., crime rate, education level, babies born to single mothers and the list goes on and on. Of the 3 I mentioned, that is NOT something the government controls - quit blaming the government for everything!
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can certainly admit it. I totally believe that both sides are to blame for a lot of governmental ills. Too much time is spent screwing around rather than governing.
But then you say, "Obama just stood there with his hand out and voted it down with the rest of them."
So you still want to blame Obama for what all the others thought was a bad idea too. As if Obama was supposed to be some Seer of the East and know what the Wall St mess was going to do. You can't point a greater finger at him when no one else disagreed with him but McCain.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Again, I fault both parties, it was a bipartisan screw up. Why can't you admit that?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I already answered this in detail and you ignored it. When you get a NEW TALKING POINT come back to see us>>>>>>>>>>>>
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I will when you will MS.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well apparently McCain was the Seer of the East because he predicted exactly what happened and vocalized it when presenting the bill.
That is my point, he has the knowledge to foresee things like this, Obama does not.
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Why is a muslim president so bad? e have muslims in Congress. We have muslims in the military. We have 1000s of muslims working all over our federal government. We have 100,000s of muslims living in the USA.
So why would a muslim be a bad president?
The US Constitution doesn't give us freedom of religion--except Islam.
Sad that people have such bigotry.
NatchezSouthSide:
I apologize for offending you.
I respect you for speaking out.
I am not a bigot, but I wasn't clear in my original post.
I believe strongly in freedom of religion and in the freedom to vote for whomever we want.
I am a Christian and, all things being equal, I prefer voting for candidates who best SHOW me their belief in core Christian values which are sometimes the same as other religions' core values.
I was trying to say, based on the reasons in my original post, I do NOT believe the inferences by the McCain campaign that Senator Obama is a muslim terrorist or muslim terrorist sympathizer.
Again, I aplogize for the wording in the original post.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Southside, we have a progressive tax system. Maybe in whatever fantasy world you live in there's a regressive system, but here in the real world it's a progressive system.
-Concerning the budget, if we held the line on spending we would eventually start to run a surplus and would then be able to pay down the debt.
-"You blame the Dems for the legislative process but excuse the GOP, when they are both working in the same processes." What does that even mean?
-And I didn't mention making Bush's tax cuts permanent. But since you mention it, if a person doesn't vote to make the tax cuts permanent, then that person is allowing the tax rates to increase, thereby "raising taxes."
-Yeahuhuh, will the personal attacks ever cease? Why is it that libs feel the need to personally attack those who disagree with them and not address the persons arguments? Instead, were dumb. FYI, my IQ happens to be 152, I have four college degrees, and I work in a profession where people's lives are quite literally in my hands everyday. So can we just stick to the issues please?
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
apologies to you too. i misread what you wrote.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
-And I didn't mention making Bush's tax cuts permanent. But since you mention it, if a person doesn't vote to make the tax cuts permanent, then that person is allowing the tax rates to increase, thereby "raising taxes."
UGH!! You are incredible! Just incredible. Twisted absurd logic!!
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well - when I lived in MS - I DID DO SOMETHING!!!! I never received a welfare check - I got an education - I never committed a crime - I did NOT have a child out of wed lock - so I guess I DID my part to try to get that # up - too bad there are not more in Mississippi that will do the same - there are too many people in MS that won't get off of it and DO something to change - just blame the govrnment - that's easier!
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MSviaTN...I agree with you except that it is the fault of the government to some degree. Why work when you can collect welfare and if you don't need to work, why bother with education, and you get more welfare by having more babies.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A regressive tax is a tax imposed in such a manner that the tax rate decreases as the amount subject to taxation increases.
In simple terms, it imposes a greater burden (relative to resources) on the poor than on the rich.
Regressive taxes attempt to reduce the tax incidence of people with higher ability-to-pay, as they shift the incidence disproportionately to those with lower ability-to-pay.
The opposite of a regressive tax is a progressive tax, where the tax rate increases as the amount subject to taxation increases.
Hence, the US has a regressive tax structure.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
But then you say, "Obama just stood there with his hand out and voted it down with the rest of them."
So you still want to blame Obama for what all the others thought was a bad idea too. As if Obama was supposed to be some Seer of the East and know what the Wall St mess was going to do. You can't point a greater finger at him when no one else disagreed with him but McCain.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Actually she also fails to admit that it has been proven that Senator Obama did Write a Letter to the Treasury Secretary and the Chairman of the Federal Reserve two years ago warning them of exactly what is hapening today and his Leters was ignored, just as the ones warning the Pentagon about Foreigners taking flight lessons but no lessons on take offs or Landings, prior to 9/11. No one can tell this adminestration anything, they have to be slaped up side the Head with it and you people want FOUR MORE YEARS???????
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You are right happybunny - like I said - that mentality is what is putting MS on the bottom of the list.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MS, every other state has people that fit your definition of the problem. Yet Mississippi is last.
At some point you have to look at the governance structure as the problem.
Why does the GOP led govt of Mississippi continue to operate in such a way that it allows the state to remain in last place?
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Southside, do you honestly not see how not acting to prevent something from happening is the same as doing it? So I guess all the people in prison who were convicted of murder, even though they didn't directly participate but knew the murder was going to occur and did nothing to stop it, should be set free.
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes - every state has people that fit that definition - but obviously Mississippi has more thus on the bottom of the list - the government could change it but could you imagine the outcry of Mississippians if they alone tried to put more regulations on welfare?? Don't get me wrong - I believe welfare is a good and needed thing but it should NOT be intended as a career!!!
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"do you honestly not see how not acting to prevent something from happening is the same as doing it?"
So then by your logic, you are guilty of raising taxes too?
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MS: The GOP has run MS for decades. In all that time they couldn't have come up with solutions?
And we are not talking just last in welfare stats (or near first in this case). We are talking statistic after statistic; ranking after ranking.
Come on!
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm not an elected official, I have no control over taxes. I assume you meant something else by your comment, but you'll need to clarify it.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmbjd -- sorry if the criticism hurts your feelings. Maybe you can relate to what it feels like listening to folks in the Deep South talk about liberals -- or anyone who talks against the GOP. To this day it is suicide talking white Democratic politics in this town, face to face. No, we won't shut up on here.
It is our turn to be incredulous -- and the inability for the "right" side to take the responsibility they deserve is a legitimate issue.
Have you been on here seeing what the happybunnys and the Yomamas come up with as arguments?? When people use bogus points and the tactics your allies on here use -- then their character and their intellect is a legitimate issue. I admit you are the most erudite of the conservative posters right now -- the rest seem just to use tricks and persistence to try and win arguments.
Dumb is not always lacking IQ. It can come from emotional problems, or ideological prejudices. Sheepskin does not immunize. your allies can get you shot down. Sorry, but we lost our sense of humor a long time ago and you should have spoken up more back then keeping your own guys in Washington in check.
This is the End of Reagnomics. It has come full circle to another banking crisis. We have exhausted the treasury trying to get the patient to breathe. Somebody now has to pay the bills. McCain has no credibility. Palin is a joke. Palin as Commander in Chief is enough by itself to claim everyone who would vote Republican is an idiot. You can't ignore those matters and pretend some other ideological issues matter.
What you are seeing is democracy working.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"do you honestly not see how not acting to prevent something from happening is the same as doing it?"
Sweetie, this is a representational government, but you don't get to sit back passively. You have a say in how your government votes and you have to personally get involved to make it function. This is Civics 101. Perhaps you took that???
Ergo, if you did nothing proactively to make the taxes go down, as you accuse the Demos of doing, then you too are guilty of increasing them.
Duh.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeahuhuh, number one, you didn't hurt my feelings. Number two, I didn't tell you to shut up, just stick to the issues. You don't help yourself by personally attacking people. You have much more credibility when you lay out your case on a factual basis, minus the hyperbole and personal attacks. As to people who share my viewpoint on here, you accuse them of the same types of things you and your ilk are guilty of. I mean, have you read any of oldhippie's posts? He's certainly not helping your case. The end of Reaganomics? You better pray for the country's sake that that isn't the case.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Reaganomics--you mean what Bush Sr. called "Voodoo Economics"?
Yeah, put a fork in that fiasco. It's done.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This is conservative fiscal policy?????? This is Republican conservative government????
Sounds like socialism to me! Is McCain now becoming a socialist?
"Senator McCain announced a plan last night for the Treasury to directly purchase home loans from borrowers and servicers at full price and then give the borrowers cheaper fixed-rate FHA backed loans at lower principal values; in other words, give people their overpriced homes for free."
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A "representational government?" I assume you meant a representative republic. Other than voting for the candidates that most closely reflect my political views, which is what I do, I really don't understand what you mean by doing something "proactively" to make taxes go down, other than writing or calling your representatives to express your views. What you seem to be saying, at least in my view, is that if my representatives vote against a tax increase but taxes go up anyway, I'm somehow responsible for the tax increase. Yeahuhuh, remember what I said about oldhippies posts and how he's not helping your case? I'd like to add natchezsouthside to that list.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hey kmb, it's your logic, not mine. I am merely following the logic you presented.
Oh, and about that regressive tax thing... hmmmmm.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I really have tryed to avoid the local social issue's, but since so many who have no idea what they are talking about, ar talking about it, I fear I must.
The Fact is that the State of Mississippi and to a lessor degree Louisiana have gone into the Penitentiary Business. The RED NECKS are lined up for those GOOD PENITENTIARY JOBS ! I don't understand the Revinue stream end of the Business,but I do understand POVERTY. So let me educate you fortunate ones about poverty. First,( before you start) no, I have never been on Welfare,BUT, I have been qualified, I just had too much pride bread into me and eventually got work again. So I can tell you that Welfare is a hell of a Career and you better pray that you never end up there. I read the other day, people talking about the School System and they were argueing about people from Natchez Shiping their Children across the River to vIDALIA TO ATTEND sCHOOL, BECAUSE THEY SAID THAT THE sCHOOLS IN nATCHEZ WERE INFERIOR AND DANGERIOUS,( sorry caps). Thats where it starts, Black kids, raised up in poverty feel as if they have one shot at the "BRASS RING" and that is SPORTS,B.Ball, or Foot Ball. If they don't make one of those "TEAMS" they tend to join any "TEAM" that will have them,( You guessed it) "GANGS". Now you have your CANNON FODDER" for your PENITENTIARY'S, its just a matter of time. Thats the Boys, the Girls have a different problem, The Schools aren't allowed to teach them any Sex Education and what they get at home is certainly not in their best interest, so they usually end up Pregnant by the time they are thirteen or fourteen and then they are traped in the System. They have to go on Welfare because they don't have any Money, they have never had any pride instilled into then, as I did, so they will never teach that to their children, because you can't teach what you never learned.
I don't know what the answer is,( or if there is one), but that is what the problem is and none of those people are living on the "FAT OF THE LAND", they're lives are pure "HELL ON EARTH".
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
oldhippie: i am a moderate and thus come down in the middle of your point.
Personal responsibility is key. Lots of people grow up poor but achieve. If you abide by the notion that learning "is a white thing" then yup, theres a gang waiting for you.
But if we as a society say, yes, we will give you welfare, food stamps, public housing for a few years (5 years max???) so you can get on your feet, then we as a society have to also say when the 5 years are up. Sorry, the gravey train is over.
Too many Dems count on the poor for their votes. Too many GOPs count on those poor to to feel left out and not vote. (Hence impoverished majority black Miss. remains a GOP run state.)
Then there are the too many "religious" folks prey on them for their own greedy needs.
There is actually no political or societal will to end social welfare since both the Ds and the Rs et al benefit from the status quo.
That is my point in raising the GOP's inaction in Mississppi. They don't fix it becasue they don't want to fix it.
And the poor are played generation after generation.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I disagree with oldhippie on occasion, and others, kmb. And I do not write like he does. I also take my lumps for agreeing with his condemnation of the GOP. Actually character assasination by association as a political tool is alive and well in the GOP.
I think it is pretense that voting happens on a logical basis with the fair sharing of facts and policy thrusts. You don't get reality considerations from a country of people who want to attack Iraq or Iran but can't point to either on a globe.
McCain's claims from the convention down are between wrong, evasive and insane. Why would these folks here be bound to issues while the campaign issues misinformation regularly?
Reaganomics is dead. Watch the funeral. Reaganomics always depended on deficit spending to even spark life in the process. Free market influences are still a factor in managing economies -- but the thought that a safe knee-jerk policy is to do whatever the free-market crowd says is ok is bogus -- we haven't been free market in my memory and won't be. But you get legions of stooges preaching free-market for the GOP because they don't think any deeper than that.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So how are the Democrats going to fix it? They continue to give hand outs and not hold people accountable.
It is obvious that I am voting for McCain, but I was a little pissed off when he mentioned buying the defaulted loans and refinancing them at the depreciated value.
I wish ONE of the people running for President would mention rewarding the ones who pay their mortgages and are not defaulting on anything.
I wish that would be addressed...instead of helping out idiots who tried to live outside their means and caused this housing disaster that led to the current economic state.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
notfrom: from my earlier post--No one will fix it. There is no gain for politicians if they fix it.
****************************
Too many Dems count on the poor for their votes. Too many GOPs count on those poor to to feel left out and not vote. (Hence impoverished majority black Miss. remains a GOP run state.)
Then there are the many "religious" folks who prey on them for their own greed.
There is actually no political or societal will to end social welfare since both the Ds and the Rs et al benefit from the status quo.
That is my point in raising the GOP's inaction in Mississppi. They don't fix it becasue they don't want to fix it.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's another point.
Education is THE key to success. With a brain you can provide for yourself.
Public education sucks in Miss. But look at public ed--it is FAT--BIG FAT PIG, FAT--bloated with administration.
Have you ever seen any public school district that is bloated with teachers and short on admin?
Until the money goes to the class room rather than the admin education in Miss will continue to suck and students will continue to do poorly. (toss in lack of parental involvement too.)
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
...and finally: The prime reason why Miss cannot get industry and jobs (this is very clear in Natchez) here is the education system sucks and churns out idiots.
Vast numbers of children who do manage to get through the public school system are still functionally illiterate--to say nothing of lacking higher math skills and virtually no science aptitude.
Miss will NEVER improve its national standing without a ground up transformation of education.
There is no political will for that in Miss because an educated majority black population will not vote GOP. And the GOP knows it.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:20
I mean, have you read any of oldhippie's posts? He's certainly not helping your case.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
I don't know who the hell you are fellow, nor do I give a damn, but MY job here is to state MY case and I really could care less what you, or anyone else thinks about it. That seems to be a trait of you republicans, you act as if GOD left you all in charge of the World while he went to the Store. Well, just scratch me off of your little list, cause I don't play that sh*T. Us Democrats tend to agree on most things, but we are not "SCHOOL FISH" as you republicans are.
The bottom line is that there is nothing left to argue about, Obama already has enough Electoral Votes to win and he has a four point lead in Florida and also leading in Virginia that hasn't Voted Democrat since Clinton, so get used to being aq MINORITY son............
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I will go one step further...FINANCIAL EDUCATION is needed for all.
Most people do not have the understanding or quite frankly the desire to learn. They are happy suckling from the government teat.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
its a vicious cycle not from. people do what they know. people know what they do.
you need political will to change the people AND the process.
There is no political will. It doesn't benefit the political status quo.
People don't inherently do the right thing--not in politics--and as we have seen, not on Wall St.
Americans are all about self-interest. That's why we shoot first. Me me me me first.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oldhippie, the phrase is actually, "I couldn't care less." And it's "loser," not "looser." You know, I didn't know the election was held today. You mean they moved it up and didn't tell anybody?
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This election is all over but for the shouting.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oldhippie---should I get used to being a minority too?
Oh wait...I already am. ;)
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchezsouthside, I agree with you about "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY",BUT that has to be "TAUGHT", we are not like Dogs where we just do certain things by instinct, these people have evolved through generations of welfare and as you say apparently no one cares enough to change it, they just want to Bit*h about it................
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Don't worry notfromnatchez, you know how us "Bleeding Heart" Liberals are, we try to lift everyone up. We aren't opposed to Millionairs, or even Billionairs, we just expect them to kick a little back down the hill and help us tote the load.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't need to be lifted...I like where I am.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
But what have you done to help lift up your neighbor.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
One was the difference in the way we talk and the other a typo. I speak Construction Worker, not queens english. As for the election, just hide and watch, I'll be on here the fifth to remind you that the old hippie told you so........
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southside, I thought it was the governments job to lift up your neighbor.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hippie I am waiting for the blaming of the economic failure on Obama in 2009 even thought the whole mess started long before he got elected.
Just wait and watch. It will be a dazzling spectacular demonstration of memory loss of the GOP boondogles and accusations toward Obama that have absolutely no basis in fact. Somehow taking office on Jan 20 will mean he caused all the ills of the past.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmb: Did you think that? I am surprised. I thought you were rabid right winger. I had you pegged incorrectly.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 6:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmb: actually, I think children, the mentally and physically ill, the elderly, should be taken care of by government. We are a wealthy nation. We have more than we need. Why, do you not have compassion for those unable to see to their own basic needs?
I thought you held the life of people in your hands every day. Do you also tell them that you don't really give a damn about them?
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 6:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No doubt in my little millitary mind that you are absolutely correct southside. They are probably accumulating the material as we speak, getting all of their talking points lined out in preperation for the metamorphosis, LOL>>>>
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Wednesday that a $150 billion economic stimulus plan is needed now because of the faltering economy.
Pelosi said a stimulus package would create jobs by investing in public works, increasing food stamps benefits and extending unemployment insurance for the long-term jobless.
How is that going to help?
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Presidential candidate, John McCain was visiting a primary school and he visited one of the classes. They were in the middle of a discussion related to words and their meanings. The teacher asked the presidential candidate if he would like to lead the discussion on the word 'tragedy'. So our illustrious Republican presidential candidate asked the class for an example of a 'tragedy'.
One little boy stood up and offered: 'If my best friend, who lives on a farm, is playing in the field and a tractor runs over him and kills him that would be a tragedy.'' No,' said McCain, 'that would be an accident. 'A little girl raised her hand: 'If a school bus carrying 50 children drove over a cliff, killing everyone inside, that would be a tragedy.' 'I'm afraid not,' explained McCain. 'That's what we would call a great loss. 'The room went silent. No other children volunteered.
McCain searched the room. 'Isn't there someone here who can give me an example of a tragedy?' Finally at the back of the room, Little Johnny raised his hand. In a quiet voice he said: 'If the plane carrying you and Governor Palin was struck by a 'friendly fire' missile and blown to smithereens that would be a tragedy.' 'Fantastic!' exclaimed McCain. 'That's right. And can you tell me why that would be a tragedy?' 'Well,' says the boy, 'It has to be a tragedy, because it certainly wouldn't be a great loss... and it probably wouldn't be an accident either.'
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"You and I together will confront the ten trillion dollar debt that the federal government has run up and balance the federal budget by the end of my term in office," McCain began, making his way to pork barrel spending. "Across this country this is the agenda I have set before my fellow prisoners and the same standards of clarity and candor must now be applied to my opponent."
Presumably McCain meant to say 'Americans' not "prisoners," but he didn't catch his mistake and powered on to criticize Obama for avoiding the tough questions in this campaign.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Suggestion for new ethics reform in politics:
Whenever one decides to run for public office let him be fitted with a shock necklace which he will continue to wear as long as he is running and until he gives up his position should he win. Each time he tells an untruth, the necklace can shock the lies out of him. And until that can be written into the law have Obama and McCain hooked up to a lie detector on the next debate.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hippie :)
Posted by Thedamntruth (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
oldhippie01,
I love the joke!!! If Sara Palin miraculously survived, maybe the explosion would somehow fill her head with something....anything.....because right now a sack of sh** has more substance!!!
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 6:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The TRUTH on the "WAR HERO" "SUPPORT THE VETS" candidate.
http://www.votevets.org/video?id=0012
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 6:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Presumably McCain meant to say 'Americans' not "prisoners,"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You are right 4change, but he has to keep repeating his "POW" experience over and over in his head, in case he gets an opening to use it. Add to the fact that the man is 72 and Senile and its easy to see how he could think he was in a Prison Camp...........
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 7:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And then there is this little fact.........
http://votevets.org/pages/?id=0012
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Still McCain/Palin 08' I think the debate was so boring I went to sleep . I also think both parties were told to keep themselves in check so much by their advisers we saw less of the real characters they really are and they didn't express their anger and frustration they must feel just like all of us do about the economy . It was the same old same old . That was a wasted debate and I don't trust polls to be completely accurate . I hope this last debate coming up will give the American people something more to look forward to . I also fear voters fraud big time in this election . I fear this easily because of what happens in our local elections,especially Wilkinson County . With obama as president we are sure to become even more socialist than we already are . I don't like so many government mandates and I don't like government reaching his greedy little fingers so deeply in my pockets without my permission . If you believe you don't have enough sense to manage your on lives , whether its financial or otherwise , then vote obama .
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I fear "Voter Fraud" also, but I am sure from the opisite direction from you Belle. This is what I am talking about;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27093919
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
From the Wall Street Journal:
OCTOBER 6, 2008 McCain Plans Federal Health Cuts
Medicare, Medicaid Spending Would Be Reduced to Offset Proposed Tax Credit
By LAURA MECKLERArticle
John McCain would pay for his health plan with major reductions to Medicare and Medicaid, a top aide said, in a move that independent analysts estimate could result in cuts of $1.3 trillion over 10 years to the government programs.
The Republican presidential nominee has said little about the proposed cuts, but they are needed to keep his health-care plan "budget neutral," as he has promised. The McCain campaign hasn't given a specific figure for the cuts, but didn't dispute the analysts' estimate.
In the months since Sen. McCain introduced his health plan, statements made by his campaign have implied that the new tax credits he is proposing to help Americans buy health insurance would be paid for with other tax increases.
But Douglas Holtz-Eakin, Sen. McCain's senior policy adviser, said Sunday that the campaign has always planned to fund the tax credits, in part, with savings from Medicare and Medicaid. Those government health-care programs serve seniors, poor families and the disabled. Medicare spending for the fiscal year ended Sept. 30 is estimated at $457.5 billion
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
good post so.woman.
And yet, as they do over and over in Miss. people wil vote against their own best interest.
Stunningly amazing.
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And obama says he will cut middle class taxes while making it MANDATORY for middle class to buy insurance . It's like obama said in the debate,"it's giving withone hand while taking with the other "
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
that would be McCain's plan southerwoman.
get your candidates straight.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
obama NEVER said it is mandatory for me to buy insurance. NEVER said that.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"whether its financial or otherwise , then vote obama "
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If you make MORE than a quarter of a million dollars a year, and don't won't to pay your fair share of taxes, then you might want to Vote for McCain and pray that he don't die..............
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And obama says he will cut middle class taxes while making it MANDATORY for middle class to buy insurance . It's like obama said in the debate,"it's giving withone hand while taking with the other "
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You just don't give up do you Belle. Do you really think that we are so stupid as not to know what our Candidate is proposing in Health Care? I give you credit though for wording your statement in such a way as to make it sound like what Obama says,BUT, the Devil is in the DETAILS that you LEAVE OUT, such as making health care affordable to people who can't afford it and preventing Insurance Companys from using "Pre-existing Conditions" as an excuse to deny, OR price out of reach, Insurance coverage........
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"that would be McCain's plan southerwoman.
get your candidates straight."
natchezsouthside, I think you were responding to southernbelle, not southernwoman. I never was a southern belle (smile).
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
From Conservative Columnist George Will
"Many millions of American households are gingerly opening envelopes containing reports of the third-quarter losses in their 401(k) and other retirement accounts -- telling each household its portion of the nearly $2 trillion that Americans' accounts have recently shed.
In this context, the McCain-Palin campaign's attempt to get Americans to focus on Obama's Chicago associations seem surreal -- or, as a British politician once said about criticism he was receiving, "like being savaged by a dead sheep."'
Dead sheep indeed.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
sorry again... I'll start calling her belle, too.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
... I'll start calling her belle, too.
<<<<<<<<<< LOL, I noticed that, I'm sure southernwoman knows your intentions are good southside............
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
BTW, good Post on the George Will quote.........
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
From the Huffington Post:
"Palin's husband Todd remained an AIP [Alaska Independence Party] party member from 1995 to 2002. Sarah can be described in McCarthy-era palaver as a "fellow traveler." While retaining her Republican registration, she attended the AIP's 1994 convention where the party called for a draft constitution to secede from the United States and create an independent nation of Alaska. The McCain Campaign has reluctantly acknowledged that she also attended AIP's 2000 Convention. She apparently found the experience so inspiring that she agreed to give a keynote address at the AIP's 2006 convention and she recorded a video greeting for this year's 2008 convention. In other words, this is not something that happened when she was eight!"
Sound to me like ol' Caribou Barbi is a secessionist and advocates for terrorism against the US. Hmmmmmmm
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ya'll still can't believe your young golden boy can do no wrong ! I hope you never have to wake up and find out how much you've been stuped into paying his debts so bankers ,insurance companies,lawyers and such can continue to run this country and put us so much further in debt that we will never see daylight . We are headed toward being a very socialistic country . I guess some of you must need to be guided through life ,to be taken care of by your government . If you vote obama ,it's a vote against your very freedoms that we have enjoyed for well over two hundred years . If you vote for obama and he gets in,and he could, then you lose !
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
UPS! I meant" can do wrong in my previous statement". I know ya'll will forgive me .
Posted by RobinBrownHayes (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
southside, how do they know McCain "reluctantly" acknowledged this? Are they mind readers? And so friggin' what. I will reiterate my former post from a couple of days ago since no one saw it. Hopefully I will be able to get back to my computer this evening.
Posted on October 6 at 10:58 p.m.
You people talking about polls are idiots. How many of you were involved in these polls. I know I wasn't. My opinion has never been added to a poll. And the personal attacks on Gov. Palin are ridiculous. I wish I still had the email I received with a photo of a monkey side by side with michele obama and you couldn't tell them apart. Would posting a link to that be an adult thing to do? Or better yet would it make me a person with no class? Definately, so I guess that says how much class you people have.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)
This country is in this situation for two reasons:
1. People who are/have lived outside of their means by not making enough money to support their way of living.
2. People who do not work and have became dependent of federal income.
Welfare should be WORK fare. Make these people WORK for their paycheck, just like everyone else. If they choose not to work, then they are not allowed financial income.
As for people who live outside of their means, they need to change their way of life, tear up their credit cards, and earn what they are entitled to (like it use to be).
The answers to our dwindling economy should NOT be up to a president. It should be up to all of us. We have all wronged for financing cars, houses, TVs, etc. We have wronged for receiving a free check in the mail and not earning it. Now it is time to accept the responsibility and pay for what we have by ridding our debt.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Robin: First I don't know anyting about a monkey, etc. I don't deal in childishness.
But you question the "reluctance" issue, but what does that sentence have to do with the facts in the rest of the paragraph?
It's OK to spout off on that Ayers BS, but when to lens is turned around suddenly it's mean??
Hypocrisy.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The Huffington Post is such a unbiased group, surely what they say is true!
The AIP issue has already been addressed. She attended as Governor at their request. She was never a member of their party. I'm sure she also attended both Republican and Democratic events...does that make her confused?
The issue with Obama is the slime he associates himself with until he gets busted, like Rev. Wright, Ayers, and Rezko. How about Odinga...it is neverending!
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If people need healthcare, perhaps they should work for it. What is free health care going to do for these single mothers who already have five babies under the age of 6 (and already have free income each month to support them)? It is going to increase the amount of babies born to this environment, it is going to increase petty doctor and ER visits, and it is going to LOWER the standards of health care in this country.
The health care plan Obama wants to put into effect will be taken for granted by many people. This country already has Medicaid to people who need it. If others out there need it, then apply for it. Chances are if they are denied, it is because these people COULD already afford health care but choose not to pay for it.
So many other countries have adapted governmental health care, and all of them have one thing in common: a lacking of state of the art healthcare. This health care would break the medical field thus leading to decreasing technology.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Her HUSBAND was a member! Crimony! Are you illiterate?
She was associating with a known terrorist organization.
How about her minister Muthee?? Please.
She is a traitor.
Just because you don't like the HuffPost doesn't mean what they post is inaccurate...
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
yamama: So 47 million americans without healthcare are all simply too lazy to get a job or too dumb to get medicare?
And just who do you think pays for medicare? YOU DO!!!!!!!!
Oh, and who do you think is paying for the routine care those people get when they go to the Emergency Room for a head cold??? YOU DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Happybunny we all remember the hack idiot sites you quote. Being partisan or simply wrong does not offend you, we know. You have made that perfectly clear.
Now you are lying about character because you are a mindless partisan repeating party talking points.
After getting a brain tumor Lee Atwater got the Lord and apologized about his lying worthless slander at the behest of Republicans -- among that his confession about the moral bankruptcy of making Willie Horton Mike Dukakas's running mate in a national slur campaign designed to fool fools and appease party liars like you.
Quit lying. Quit repeating stuff everyone is telling you is bogus, except the liars you want to keep governing us.
They make churches for people like you.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
but wait Yeahuhuh, don't you know--only right wingers are aloud to quote biased news sources as fact (Faux News and Hannity and Dumbo).
Anyone who has any other opinion is a spineless lib demo lefty tree hugger pinko socialist!
Is it any wonder the Repubs will lose this election. Perhaps if they dropped the radical ideology and embraced a more inclusive approach to the electorate they wouldn't be the party of the Mastodon
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That is exactly my point ntzsouthside. AND LOOK AT OUR STATE OF ECONOMY! People need to earn what they have, not have it handed to them while others suffer. The others who suffer will be the many patients in the future who have to line up sitting on benches waiting to get Chemotherapy. This is how it is in Canada. Their health care is lacking due to the government stepping in.
I did not have health care growing up. It was NOT because we were poor, it was because my father was an alcoholic and spent all of the income of poker games, booze, and women. In other words, my lack of health care was due to my parents selfish decision not to have it. Perhaps, cheaper healthcare can be provided to lower income families (with less restriction). I agree that the health care in this country needs to change, but I do not feel the government should interfere more than it already has.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Can we please all stop ridiculing and do some debating? You people (Yeahuhuh and Ntzsouthside) just never stop. You are going to make everyone stop giving their opinions!
Geez, get a grip. Both of you sound like broken records.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
yamama: sure.
i am not for socialized medicine. But I do think the govt has to play some role in healthcare regulation in order that a) insurnace cos. don't cherry pick the healthy people only and b) don't gouge the ill.
We are the only country in the world where people go bankrupt and lose their homes and life savings if they have a devasting illness.
As we have seen with Wall St; less govt oversite does not breed honesty. So there needs to be a heavy thumb pushing down on healthcare to treat people equitably.
Same with drug manufacturers. I own drug stocks--i want them to make money. But why should I have to pay 100 x more for for a pill than anyone in the rest of the bloody world?
Medicare and medicaid costs are driving our govt into the financial hole. Something has to be done and done without politics. Both sides have to say OK--hands off--no politicking on this. Let's do the ugly dirty work that will piss off the voters and cut.
It's gonna hurt, but we gotta cut.
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Obamayamama - I usually always agree with you but I do have to disagree with on something - just because someone doesn't have health insurance doesn't mean they don't work and are lazy - I know there are MANY out there that fit into that category but I cannot get health insurance due to pre existing conditions and the job I have does not supply health insurance. Lucky for me, my husband has a job that provides health insurance- but if something were to happen to him I would be without health insurance and yes I would be one of those that would be denied and yes I do make enough money to pay for it and would gladly pay for it, but it has nothing to do with me being lazy. I agree with you totally that people take advantage of it and the government needs to not make it so easy - tighter guidelines need to be set in place!
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 1 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can't believe it - I actually agree with southside on something! :-)
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 1:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As the 2008 campaign nears its conclusion, the presidential transition efforts of the two major candidates have become a study in contrasts: Sen. Barack Obama has organized an elaborate well-staffed network to prepare for his possible ascension to the White House, while Sen. John McCain has all but put off such work until after the election.
The Democratic nominee has enlisted the assistance of dozens of individuals -- divided into working groups for particular federal agencies -- to produce policy agendas and lists of recommended appointees. As evidence of their advanced preparations, officials provided a copy of the strict ethics guidelines that individuals working on the transition effort are required to sign.
John McCain, by contrast, has done little. Campaign spokespersons did not respond to requests for elaboration. But one official with direct knowledge, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, expressed concern with McCain's approach. The Arizona Senator has instructed his team to not spend time on the transition effort, according to the source, both out of a desire to have complete focus on winning the election as well as a superstitious belief that the campaign shouldn't put the cart before the horse.
Virtually every modern non-incumbent presidential candidate has organized, during the course of the campaign, a transition effort to prepare for the early months of a potential administration. These teams help build lists and vet individuals who could serve in key government posts. They hammer out proposals to facilitate policy making from day one. And they work closely with outgoing administration officials to better understand the true lay of the political land.
Governance scholars consider the process invaluable, particularly as the nation struggles with a major economic crisis, two active wars, and a range of domestic security threats. "Our enemies understand how potentially vulnerable we are in the transition from one administration to the next," Clay Johnson III, former Executive Director of the Bush-Cheney Presidential Transition, said recently at a forum on transition planning. "This is something we need to be very, very seriously prepared for."
With 100 or so days before the next president takes office, Obama's transition effort has been organized into roughly a dozen teams of six to eight people to plot out the approach for each agency, according to a Democratic official. The ethics code governing the process prohibits staff from working on subjects that could be deemed a financial conflict of interests, either to that member or that member's family.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 1:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with that too MSviaTN. I do not think everyone out there is lazy, but so many people take advantage of what they are given. That problem should be fixed first before allowing igniting this health care plan. Other wise, it will be the same thing, people will find a way to take advantage of the situation. I am just scared that the advancement in technology in the medical field will suffer due to the fiercely increasing demand of medical attention as well as the fiercely increasing population.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 1:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You Republicans might as well get used to the idea that a NEW SHERIFF is riding into town. He is going to be a Democrat and he is going to throw out all of your worn out Ideas, that has draged this Country to the brink of Depression. You guys need to invest all of your Money into "GREEN ENERGY" and Medical Technoligy. Southside, I would sell that Drug Stock if I was you, because Medi-Care and Medi-Cade is going to be buying Drugs for the same as canada and England, which is less than Half what we pay now.
Government is going to START doing what Government is supposed to do, which is write Law AND INFORCE THE LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS. That means that REGULATORS are actually going to REGULATE and Prosecute violators of the REGULATIONS, just like the police do when they catch a black man with a bottle of wine in his car, get used to it...........
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 1:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
yamama: you are forgetting the healthcare industry is run by multinational comglomerates. A healthcare policy in the US is not going to have any effect on R&D in Switzerland (where many are based--for tax purposes).
In addition, people always have and always will try and scam the system--look at all the profiteers off Katrina and the shameless profiteering off the Iraq war.
You can't stop it all.
But if we can spend $10 a MONTH in Iraq, we can afford $3 billion a YEAR providing some basic health coverage for people in this country.
i know a lot of people who cannot get coverage because of pre-existing conditions. That is criminal.
Lobbyists make it so unless WE demand more from congress.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
one other thought--47 million americans have no health insurance. If we gave them each a million a YEAR to buy health insurance it still would only cost $47 million year.
That is a flea on a horse's but compared to what we waste in a MONTH in iraq.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
or $119,953,000,000 left for a year in Iraq.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
no my math is off--thats what i get for doing it in my head--but you get the point.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
obamayammama, if you would ever actually look at the figures of the Universal Health Care Plans of all of the advanced Nations of the World,( except us),( And yes Canada is the worse, but still better than what we have) You would see that we are paying more than twice what any of those other Nations are paying,(Per Capata) and have ,( at least) forty seven Million with no health Care, go figure............
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"And yes Canada is the worse, but still better than what we have"
I beg to differ on this comment. I personally know of a Canadian doctor who moved to the US to practice because of the horrific health care in Canada. Sure the Canadian health care system is great for someone diagnosed with mild sicknesses. However, he spoke of stories that mad my mouth drop concerning life-threatening diseases. For instance, to get an MRI done would take weeks, maybe months. The same thing goes for cancer patients who only have a few choices on where to get chemotherapy thoughout the country! And as for nursing homes, they are almost non-existant. Older people must wait sometimes up to 6 years to be placed in a nursing home. That is 6 years in the same hospital bed waiting!
With a world where the population will have doubled in 50 years, basically I think it is a bad idea to just give health care away while allowing everyone (especially the richer folks) to pay for it. If someone is too poor to buy it, why not apply for medicaid?
As for the Iraq situation, I agree that we should get out of there, but we need to get into somewhere else in order to protect Israel (considering they have nukes that we gave them). If Iran or anyone gets to those nukes, we are in trouble. We can't just come home, we can't allow such danger for our country exist. Sure, such dangers exist everywhere, but these middle eastern countries (esp. Saudi Arabia which has the most oil located beneath) will continue to gain profit. With a huge budget surplus and nukes, I would think these countries could do and attack whoever they want.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 2:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
More states are coming around to the idea of a single payer health plan for all citizens.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessioncur...
Now coupled with the activity in Colorado, California and other places around the country, we might actually see a Single Payer Universal Health Care program in our lifetime. Or maybe not.
Frankly, it depends on you, the public, you the American citizen, and you the American Voter to make this happen. Trust me, left to their own devices, our congress critters will NEVER move legislation for SP-UHC off the dime. They will gnash their teeth, beat their breasts and shout out how they want to do good things for their consitituents. Then they will take a few hundred thousand in “contributions” from the Health Care Industry and we will get the short end of the stick.
When the United States has the lowest ranking among the major industrialized nations in health care across the board, doesn’t that make you want to get angry? It certainly does me!!! We rank below every single nation in Europe, and a number of countries around the world. Why you are ranked 37 in the world for health care and you are supposed to be the richest, most powerful country, what does that say about our government, our elected officials and more importantly, about our people.
Tired of being subject to the profit hogs of the Insurance and Health Care Industries? Sick of being denied care prescribed by your physician because some jake legged clerk or accountant, several thousands of miles away, decides to delay or refuse simply to keep more profits coming into their organization? Makes this old man madder than a wet hen!!.
It is time for the American people to stand up, shout out loud and clear that we want, at minimum, action to pass HR676 and make it the law of the land NOW!. It is time for us to take responsibility for our country’s dire position regarding health care access. I frankly am sick and tired of hearing the right wing armchair slugs deriding the provision of Single Payer Universal Health Care as SOCIALISM. It is NOT!
And anyone who continues to make such a statement is a bald faced liar!
Worse, they are criminally negligent every time a child dies in this country because of a lack of access to health care.
Don’t like statements like that? Then get up off your a** and do something about it!
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 2:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"If someone is too poor to buy it, why not apply for medicaid?"
If McCain is elected, he will be chipping away at Medicaid & Medicare (see above article from Wall Street Journal). McCain has made it clear he does not like any so-called "entitlements" going to people living in poverty.
He seemingly has no problem with Wall Street hand outs or farm subsidy "entitlements".
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
obamamama, I play Poker every Day on line with Canadians, some of them well heeled and whils they complain about their health care, they tell me that theh wouldn't want our system. I've never been there, but I have seen the DATA for all of the Health Care programs, including cost per capata and satisfaction stats and as I said before, we pay twice as much and get less...........
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The Dow is down 650 points!!!
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
(AP) Barack Obama has his William Ayers connection. Now John McCain may have an Iran-Contra connection. In the 1980s, McCain served on the advisory board to the U.S. chapter of an international group linked to ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America.
The U.S. Council for World Freedom aided rebels trying to overthrow the leftist government of Nicaragua. That landed the group in the middle of the Iran-Contra affair and in legal trouble with the Internal Revenue Service, which revoked the charitable organization's tax exemption.
The council created by retired Army Maj. Gen. John Singlaub was the U.S. chapter of the World Anti-Communist League, an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America. After setting up the U.S. council, Singlaub served as the international league's chairman.
McCain's tie to Singlaub's council is undergoing renewed scrutiny after his campaign criticized Obama for his link to Ayers, a former radical who engaged in violent acts 40 years ago. Over the weekend, Democratic operative Paul Begala said on ABC's "This Week" that this "guilt by association" tactic could backfire on the McCain campaign by renewing discussion of McCain's service on the board of the U.S. Council for World Freedom, "an ultraconservative right-wing group."
In two interviews with The Associated Press in August and September, Singlaub said McCain became associated with the organization in the early 1980s as McCain launched his political career. McCain was elected to the U.S. House in 1982.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I KNOW, 678 points, oh man, we better start really saving the $$. As for the Canadian health care, I am just stating what I have heard from a doctor who is both from Canada and educated in Canada. Sure, people who aren't deathly ill (which are apparently not the ones playing poker online) think the health care is good because the pay nothing up front to go to the ER or Dr.
But when dealing with life-threatening diseases, from what he said, people who wait for Chemo literally wait on lines outside on benches. I really don't know why he would lie about this situation. I was the one who actually brought it up by saying that Canada has great health care. He about chewed my head off for that statement! So now I think differently about it.
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
you might want to take into consideration that doctors don't get paid as much under national medical systems - he may be a bit prejudiced.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, I don't know either, but the stats I saw showed them to have the lowest satisfaction rate of either england, France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, etc.,etc.. I need to try to find that again, it explained the entire thing and it wasn't "Socialized Medicine", the Dr's were self employed with half the paperwork, Hospitals privately owned, Etc..........
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I hadn't thought about that southernwoman, good point.....
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hmmm... perhaps, but he also said he would never work at a hospital due to hospital administrators "running the show" at most every hospital.
Well, how about doing some research on the topic (myself included). I am not sure why he would make those stories up?
If that is the case southernwoman, will that be the case for this country if Obama's health care plan takes effect? Would many of the doctors around the Miss Lou lose their Beau Pre homes and Corvettes? Health care in the Miss Lou is the most predominant job field. What would happen if salaries were cut due to the new health care plan?
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 3:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
huhuh and southside, please either respond with factual data minus the ridiculous insults, or do not respond to me. Your asanign comments prevent folks who legitimately want to debate the issues from participating on this forum.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 3:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Good point yamama, that would seriously effect our local economy.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 4:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree happybunny, it is much nicer to debate without all of the name-calling and insults. There is nothing positive coming from it except the satisfaction given to the insulter which goes to show they just try to make themselves feel better. To live in such a way must be miserable.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Obamayama and happybunny -- If you tell untruths as a part of your arguments people are going to insult you.
Don't say things that are untrue to try to win an argument and I bet you are insulted far less.
Next step -- quality information to quote -- Yomama doesn't seem to quote anybody in fact said, I believe, at one time he learns by this arguing BS. That is just going to be a bumpy road.
happy quotes nut-job political sites without checking them to see if they are accurate. They say stupid stuff to be repeated and let the followers take the crap for being stupid. Why should anyone hold off insulting you for that???
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 4:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You can't fight City Hall...or the FDA...or the drug companies...
Back in April of this year, I told you about the Johnson & Johnson Ortho Evra case. In a nutshell, J&J developed a birth control patch, to be worn on the skin, that was not only more convenient than taking a pill…but it was just as effective while administering less estrogen.
Well…as it turns out, that wasn't entirely the truth. It delivered much more estrogen and J&J knew it. They had studies to prove it, but delayed sharing those studies with the FDA or the public. And yet J&J claimed they were not liable for any damages (including several deaths) since the FDA had already acknowledged their product and its label as safe.
When last we heard from them, the FDA was still deciding how to resolve the situation. In the mean time though, it’s happened again.
This time it’s our friends at Wyeth Pharmaceuticals and their anti-nausea drug, Phenergan.
A man in Vermont received the drug while in the throes of a migraine to help quell his nausea. The shot caused irreversible gangrene and the arm in which he received the injection had to be amputated.
Wyeth’s reaction? They essentially said (and I’m paraphrasing), “Oh, well if you use that particular method of injection, it dramatically raises risk of gangrene…but you can’t hold us liable…the FDA already approved our drug and our label. We’re safe on this one.”
It’s a concept called “pre-emption” and it scares the heck out of me.
Essentially, the Bush administration is all for it. They believe that the FDA is the foremost authority on drug safety and that a jury should not be looking at such situations on a case-by-case basis.
That would be fine…but the FDA doesn’t seem to know a thing about drug safety. They’ve proven time and time again that not only are they inept, but they’re sleeping comfortably in the back pocket of every major drug company in the land.
Plus, do you know where the FDA gets all of its drug safety information? From the drug companies themselves! And they’re not required to supply the FDA with studies proving adverse events.
That means if a drug company conducts 10 studies and only three of them deliver the desired results…it is those three studies and those three studies only that will ever make it into the FDA’s mailbox.
Cont.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So, the drug companies can’t be held liable because they have an FDA approval. The FDA can’t be held responsible because they’re basing their approval on information supplied by the drug companies.
And our government says everything is right where it should be. A sentiment that once again leaves us looking out for ourselves.
If you have the time and the means, try to research any new drugs or medications that you’re taking or that your doctor is recommending you start taking. In some cases, like the case above involving Phenergan, there’s little that can be done. But overall, educating yourself about what’s going into your body can only help you make more informed decisions about your health.
Allan Spreen, M.D.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think drugs are just going to be dangerous, hippie. We will take our chances.
The real problem comes in our inability to participate in a free-market in drugs -- and that is a stamped policy of Bush and company. Because of this drugs are both incredibly expensive AND dangerous.
If we could re-import drugs sold to other countries competition would exist in our marketplace. Yet it is Republican policy to prohibit re-importation -- then drug companies charge US customers over twice the rates they do the rest of the world. This is evidence the free-market talk is trumped by Republican corruption and the folks who blow this free-market horn are clueless.
This is one of the things Obama seeks to remedy to make health care more affordable.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 4:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeahuh, So, is what I said concerning the present drilling situation BS or unfactual? You tell me to answer with an intelligent answer and maybe you will tell me more as if you are the creator of knowledge.
http://www.natchezdemocrat.com/news/2008...
How about that, I answered your question concerning those excel charts as well as alternative fuels. And apparently, your response to that was absolutely nothing. Also, considering what I do for a living, I do not need to "work with you on determining whether porosity and permeability are related".
Your comments disgust me. It is ashamed that you are so judgemental and must use the word "stupid" in just about every entry you state. And get it right next, I am a SHE not a he.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As I have previously brought up, what would happen to the local economy if this health care plan was put into affect? Would salaries be cut?
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 4:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
" Would many of the doctors around the Miss Lou lose their Beau Pre homes and Corvettes? Health care in the Miss Lou is the most predominant job field. What would happen if salaries were cut due to the new health care plan?"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I don't think so obamamama, I'll give you an example. I have MediCare ,B&A + I have one of those suplimental Plans, to cover the 20% that Medicare dosen't pay. Last year as part of my annual Physical they did an out Patient procedure where they ran a rotor rooter with a flashlight and aCamara on it to check out my Cardio Arteries for blockages. The Bill was twenty six hundred and change, Medicare approved five fifty of which they paid four forty and the suplimental paid the rest. So if they are living high on the hog at that rate, I doubt that they would take much of a cut.
Now, if I hadn't been covered, I would have had to pay that twenty Six, or declair Bankruptcy.......
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 4:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
declare
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
-Let's start with a few facts about health care. This 42 million number is bogus because 10-12 million of that number are in the country illegally.
-Guess what, if you let the government take over health care then the govt decides how the money is spent. In case you haven't noticed, the govt is bankrupt. So guess what'll happen, healthcare will be rationed. You see, when you make something "free," demand increases. Just imagine what would happen if the govt made health care "free." Costs would go through the roof. And when the demand increases the govt will deal with it by limiting what is available. So when you need that MRI to help diagnose the source of your excruciating back pain, you'll get on a list for a few months until it's your turn. Don't believe me? In Britain, 1 in 8 patients waits more than a year for hospital treatment. In Canada, almost a million citizens are waiting for necessary surgery and another million can't get a family doctor. Some towns in Canada have a weekly drawing to win a chance to see a family doctor. To save money, the govt's with universal coverage do things like cut doctor pay, causing doctor's to strike, limiting access even further. In Britain, some hospitals tried to save money by not washing linen. They were told that if they had a dirty sheet to just turn it over. Nice.
-What you idiots, and you know who you are, don't seem to realize is that the govt is who caused the problems we have in our health care system now. The govt mandates what medical services that insurance policies must cover, and these vary from state to state. So a policy in one state is a lot more expensive than a policy in another state that doesn't have as many of these requirements. But people in the first state have to buy what's available to them in their own state, whether they want the extra coverages or not. Because, you see, the govt doesn't allow you to buy insurance in other states. McCain wants to make it possible to buy insurance from other states.
-Another problem with our health care is that individuals don't control their own health care. People on average only pay 12 cents of every dollar for their health care. If you're not paying for something, you don't care how much it costs. If you don't care, neither do the people providing the care. Most doctor's don't even know how much it costs to provide the services they do. If people cared how much their health costs were, the providers would have to compete for patients, thereby lowering costs. The more you control the costs, the more you shop around.
-But I think the most fundamental question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to decide what treatment you receive, or whether you live or die, or do you want the govt to decide for you? Competition and less government is what will fix our health care system, not more govt.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeah, I agree with you on the danger of perscription Drugs. I subscribe to an alternative Naturalist Dr.'s News Leter that
steers me clear of those.
On the subject of Drug Prices/ re-importation, etc.. Before I got off of Statins, I bought mine from canadadrugs.com and bought them at half price. When Bush tryed to stop that I ordered from the same Company, they just shiped them from England, same price.............
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Do you idiots have any idea of the time and expense to bring a drug to market? Once again, and I'll speak more slowly this time, govt intervention is what has caused the energy crisis, the health care problems, and the current financial crisis. If we allow these drugs from other countries into the US at artificially low prices, the drug companies will either increase the price of the Canadian drugs, stop providing them in that market, or cut R&D. You see, things like what you're proposing don't occur in a vacuum. An action will cause a reaction.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by kmbjd40 (
Sir, you are clueless. You need to read up on the subject and educate yourself before you come on here spewing your propaganda crap that is a total lie............
-
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oldhip---you are very quick to call people liars.
I believe you never lied on here.
LOL...wait...i just lied about that.
Oldhip you are the BIGGEST liar. You are quick to get angry because ones opinion is different than yours.
I doubt you even served in the military. You are too much of a "CAT".
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brilliant reply. Oldhippie, you never fail to disappoint. What exactly am I lying about? Do tell.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Do you idiots <<<<<< You just illustrated your intelligence>>>>>>>>>
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
All of that information is here in this thread, if you could, or would, READ
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oldhippie, let me put this in terms maybe even you can understand. Let's say the govt said that starting tomorrow they were taking over the distribution of food. From now on, all food is "free." A "right" let's say. What do you think would happen at all the grocery stores tomorrow? Do you think if you didn't have to pay for food any more that you might get a little more than you would have when you did have to pay for it? Don't you think everybody else would too? What would happen to the supply of food? Would it decrease? If there was more demand for food, would the price increase? Would there be less available? Just food for thought, pardon the pun.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
notfromnatchez, apparently you can't read either. Have you guys been crying so much today as your savings or stocks tanked that you can't read. obamamama and I have been having a civil conversation for some time. we haven't agreed, but we haven't found it necessari to insult each other. Normally I would be glad to get in your face and sling crap with you, but I am feeling so good about the coming election that I just can't get up for it, so go out side and kick the Dog, or get in your Car and Peel out!! LMAO!!!
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't recall speaking about free food. I haven't read up on that or seen any figures, or evidence of anyone else who has done that successfuly. Health Care is another subject,( as you know) and all of that has been presented here, you just have to look for it, or not............
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 5:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My God, are you kidding me? I was using an analogy. Look it up.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 6:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok, where is yeahuhuh, I have to see a battle between he and knbjb40, somebody notify me so I can get the popcorn and coke ready!
Knbjb40, I discussed Canadian health care earlier and it seems to match your statements almost perfectly. Your comments make perfect sense, "free" means "waste". People will waste and take advantage free health care.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 7:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Lighten up folks and tune up the Violin, Rome is burning;
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/06ae3d8...
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 7:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yomama, I replied to your last set of remarks on the page more appropriate -- the rightwing editorial you linked above.
You and Sam talking there about China and the long straw to our OCS reserves is priceless.
Knbj -- "If we allow these drugs from other countries into the US at artificially low prices, the drug companies will either increase the price of the Canadian drugs, stop providing them in that market, or cut R&D. You see, things like what you're proposing don't occur in a vacuum. An action will cause a reaction."
Duh. Would it be better or worse for our laws to be created in such a way as the rest of the world would better share the burden of research with us? Who thought things occurred in a vacuum? Sounds like your idea. Spread the burden .
I swear you guys are dumb -- Knbj and Sam are the only ones who have enough sense to know how to even write down what they think and Yomama would cheer on a train about to hit him if you painted a happyface on it.
You guys are just going to have to pal up with the white racists, secessionists, free-market types who failed economics or never took it, the anti-choice crowd, and the tax turtles and see if you can get up a majority. And yes, the other side IS determined to stomp your simplistic warmongering crooked ideologies into the dirt. We have been too nice to you for too long.
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 8:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmbjd40 said: "govt intervention is what has caused the energy crisis, the health care problems, and the current financial crisis"
After the 1970s oil crunch, suggestions were made to establish a floor on U.S. gasoline prices to encourage domestic drilling, maintain and create jobs in the industry, and lessen our dependence on foreign oil to a degree. Would you have opposed this?
According to some early oil industry history:
"The first push for regulation of the industry came during World War I, which revealed the importance of oil to business, transportation, and the military. The major oil companies formed the first industry group, the National Petroleum War Services Committee (later the American Petroleum Institute) to try to establish procedures to effectively meet the nation’s needs during the war. The institute found that the operations of the oil industry were undermining their own future with wasteful practices such as wasting field pressure, which resulted in leaving valuable oil in the ground and inaccessible. The committee’s director went so far as to call production methods “extremely crude and ridiculous.”
Would you have opposed regulations preventing the wasteful practices?
Say our country was a strictly free market society, and say hard working citizens had to make a choice between food/housing and buying health insurance. Would you be okay with that?
I read in a reputable newspaper that AIG insured bonds, gambling that the value of the bonds would not decrease, claimed not to be an insurance company and were not subjected to insurance company regulations. After the housing market collapse, the value of the bonds did go down, the policyholders made claims, and AIG did not have capital reserves to pay the claims. Do you believe AIG's problems were caused by government intervention?
These are "good faith" questions.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
IYeahuhuh, it is so much fun to just scam through your slashings. Like I stated before, I am done with you, no need to reply unless you further want to release that hate or is that fear? If there were ever a market for "Reversed Cruel Psychologists", you would be the best in the world.
Your mind is tired and feeble. You only know what you read or google, you have no handle on what goes on around the table. To mention T. Boone Pickens... only shows you must watch lots of TV to see his commercials. Do you really know what is going on around the dinner table? Do you live in the heart of oil country?
Truth is no matter what I say, you will despite it, no matter who has differing opinions, you will ridicule them, and no matter what is said and done, you will grip about it. You must be so miserable, your negative, lingering presence is quite strong. Now really, I am done.
Man, you really know how to clear a room. Nobody likes you.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think Yeahuhuh dislikes people in the military. I don't think he supports the troops.
He is a pacifist and all pacifist hate the military.
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Ask NOT......"
"In contemplating the causes which may disturb our Union, it occurs as matter of serious concern that any ground should have been furnished for characterizing parties by geographical discriminations, Northern and Southern, Atlantic and Western; whence designing men may endeavor to excite a belief that there is a real difference of local interests and views. One of the expedients of party to acquire influence within particular districts is to misrepresent the opinions and aims of other districts. You cannot shield yourselves too much against the jealousies and heartburnings which spring from these misrepresentations; they tend to render alien to each other those who ought to be bound together by fraternal affection."
Tears are falling for our country.
Posted by frogprincenessntz (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Just got this in an email...help me check it out
3 Men who brought down Wall Street....................
Be sure to read the "where they are now"!!
Here is a quick look into 3 former Fannie Mae executives who have brought down Wall Street.
1. Franklin Raines: was a Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at Fannie Mae. Raines was forced to retire from his position with Fannie Mae when auditing discovered severe irregulaties in Fannie Mae's accounting activities. At the time of his
departure The Wall Street Journal noted, " Raines, who long defended the company's accounting despite mounting evidence that it wasn't proper, issued a statement late Tuesday conceding that "mistakes were made" and saying he would assume responsibility as he had earlier promised. News reports indicate the company was under growing pressure from regulators to shake up its management in the wake of findings that the company's books ran afoul of generally accepted accounting principles for four years." Fannie Mae had to reduce its surplus by $9 billion.
Raines left with a "golden parachute valued at $240 Million in benefits. The Government filed suit against Raines when the depth of the accounting scandal became clear. http://housingdoom.com/2006/12/18/fannie... . The Government noted, "The 101 charges reveal how the individuals improperly manipulated earnings to maximize their bonuses, while knowingly neglecting accounting systems and internal controls, misapplying over twenty accounting principles and misleading the regulator and the public. The Notice explains how they submitted six years of misleading and inaccurate accounting statements and inaccurate capital reports that enabled them to grow Fannie Mae in an unsafe and unsound manner." These charges were made in 2006. The Court ordered Raines to return $50 Million Dollars he received in bonuses based on the miss-stated Fannie Mae profits.
Posted by frogprincenessntz (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
2. Tim Howard: Was the Chief Financial Officer of Fannie Mae. Howard "was a strong internal proponent of using accounting strategies that would ensure a "stable pattern of earnings" at Fannie. In everyday English - he was cooking the books. The Government Investigation determined that, "Chief Financial Officer, Tim Howard, failed to provide adequate oversight to key control and reporting functions within Fannie Mae,"
On June 16, 2006, Rep. Richard Baker, R-La .,
asked the Justice Department to investigate his allegations that two former Fannie Mae executives lied to Congress in October 2004 when they denied manipulating the mortgage-finance giant's income statement to achieve management pay bonuses. Investigations by federal regulators and the company's board of directors since concluded that management did manipulate 1998 earnings to trigger bonuses. Raines and Howard resigned under pressure in late 2004.
Howard's Golden Parachute was estimated at $20 Million!
Posted by frogprincenessntz (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
3. Jim Johnson: A former executive at Lehman Brothers and who was later forced from his position as Fannie Mae CEO. A look at the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's May 2006 report on mismanagement and corruption inside Fannie Mae, and you'll see some interesting things about Johnson. Investigators found that Fannie Mae had hidden a substantial amount of Johnson's 1998 compensation from the public, reporting that it was between $6 million and $7 million when it fact it was $21 million." Johnson is currently under investigation
for taking illegal loans from Countrywide while serving as CEO of Fannie Mae.
Johnson's Golden Parachute was estimated at $28 Million.
WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
1. FRANKLIN RAINES? Raines works for the Obama Campaign as Chief Economic Advisor
2. TIM HOWARD? Howard is also a Chief Economic Advisor to Obama
3. JIM JOHNSON? Johnson hired as a Senior Obama Finance Advisor and was selected to run Obama's Vice Presidential Search Committee
IF OBAMA PLANS ON CLEANING UP THE MESS - HIS ADVISORS HAVE THE EXPERTISE - THEY MADE THE MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Would you trust the men who tore Wall Street down to build the New Wall Street ?
Posted by frogprincenessntz (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry I had to split the email into three parts and as I said, I have not looked all this up to verify it, but I will. It just seems to speak to this article.
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In contemplating the causes which may disturb our Union, it occurs as matter of serious concern that any ground should have been furnished for characterizing parties by geographical discriminations, Northern and Southern, Atlantic and Western; whence designing men may endeavor to excite a belief that there is a real difference of local interests and views. One of the expedients of party to acquire influence within particular districts is to misrepresent the opinions and aims of other districts. You cannot shield yourselves too much against the jealousies and heartburnings which spring from these misrepresentations; they tend to render alien to each other those who ought to be bound together by fraternal affection.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow, frog, quite interesting, but get ready, you know somebody will find some way to say your statements are bogus or dumb or stupid or ignorant...
The funniest thing is no matter what comes up, there is always an excuse in Obama's favor followed by lengthy insults.
Notfrom, it doesn't matter if one miserable person doesn't support the military, I as well as so many others, do indeed. And like I said previously, I will support whoever gets elected. I am proud to live in this great country. It is sickening to see so many Democratics come on here and shoot down basically this country. Yet they have a laptop or personal computer sitting in front of them with electricity to power it. They have cars in the garage, and food on the table. They live freely but never stop and realize it. I mean, really, IS IT THAT BAD TO LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY??
Sickening...
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Ask NOT what........."
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 9:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
-Southernwoman, it isn't the governments job to dictate to private industry how best to run their businesses. If they were making suggestions to increase production at a time of war, I see nothing wrong with that. But had the govt mandated the changes, I would naturally be opposed. What you libs don't seem to understand is that the govt doesn't do anything well. Look at Social Security, Medicare, public education, etc. Nothing but fraud and waste. If these were private enterprises they would have gone out of business years ago and people would be in prison. Hence the beauty of the free market. If you're inefficient, or don't produce a product or service that people want to buy, you fail. The government isn't under any such constraint, hence the mess we have today.
-As to your second point, you are presenting a hypothetical situation that has no basis in reality. A person living in the US doesn't have to choose between food and health care because everybody in the country has access to health care whether they can pay or not. I see it every day.
-Thirdly, yes AIG's problems were caused by govt intervention because what happened to them is directly tied to the collapse of the real estate markets. AIG was insuring a lot of these bad mortgages and mortgage backed securities.
-Yeahuhuh, I don't see how being able to buy drugs from Canada would "spread the research burden." Most of the drugs you're are talking about are from American companies who would see their revenues decrease significantly if Canadian supplies of drugs were sold here. I don't see the connection to increased research elsewhere by making American companies less able to develop new drugs.
-Frogprincenessntz, you're e-mail was spot-on as to the players. But they left out some other important names. Specifically, Barney Frank and Christopher "Countrywide" Dodd. Their fingerprints are all over this debacle.
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Ask NOT what your..........."
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey kmbjd40 -- you told southernwoman how government screws up the wisdom of the marketplace, the you told me that if the government allowed free enterprise in drugs they would screw up the wisdom of the marketplace and that would hurt us.
My pharmacist says drugs come from all over the world already -- we just get charged for them differently than most countries because our laws specifically allow it.
Not to mention, the only guys who are crooked enough to be selling that freedom of the marketplace bull have just shown themselves to be totally corrupt. Didn't we just have to get socialist to pay the bills after they made a whopping profit for almost a decade selling "free-enterprise"? OOOps but then to pay for it -- socialism!!!
Were you planning on jacking up the GOP and running a totally new bunch of UNEXPERIENCED free enterprise stooges under the hood, or were you planning on using the last bunch that told us free-enterprise then showed us the opposite?
No idiot like an ideological idiot. I think the most distressing problem with today's conservatives is their absolute cowardliness when it comes to standing up for what they did. And their assumed entitlement that we should hand them over the country for more of the same. OFF with your heads!!!!
Posted by eagle96 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
GO OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast, patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"I think Yeahuhuh dislikes people in the military. I don't think he supports the troops. (That from notfromnatchez, the Sarah Palin champion.)
He is a pacifist and all pacifist hate the military."
I think that idiots who lie and use the military dishonestly and unfairly to kill innocents in pre-emptive and ideological wars should be shot in the head -- legally of course, by a firing squad.
And anyone who would put Sarah Palin as head or our military might consider they would be ripe for the same treatment.
You a vet, stupid? Or just a keyboard coward?
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As a very important source of strength and security, cherish public credit. One method of preserving it is to use it as sparingly as possible, avoiding occasions of expense by cultivating peace, but remembering also that timely disbursements to prepare for danger frequently prevent much greater disbursements to repel it, avoiding likewise the accumulation of debt, not only by shunning occasions of expense, but by vigorous exertion in time of peace to discharge the debts which unavoidable wars may have occasioned, not ungenerously throwing upon posterity the burden which we ourselves ought to bear.
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
iambeubu...are you saying "Talk softly and carry a big stick"?...if so I agree, but you should eschew obfuscation.
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Not my words, I'm not that smart. George Washington.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 10:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It is indeed ashamed to be a soldier fighting for this country and to be so disrespected. Like I said before, yeahuhuh, you know how to clear out a room.
If it was between saving the life of a person who has actually FAUGHT FOR OUR COUNTRY vs an extremely arrogant, conceited, egotistical, overconfident creep, uhhh wonder who I would pick??
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeahuhuh, I think anger management and a Lexapro prescripition are in order. Maybe on your next trip to Canada. Think of the money you'll save on the drug, but the wait for counseling might be a little daunting.
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmbjd40 said: "If they were making suggestions to increase production at a time of war, I see nothing wrong with that."
The suggestions regarding the floor on oil prices after the 1970s oil crunch were not war-related. They were related to domestic oil production incentives. Does that change your opinion?
Would you have opposed regulations preventing the wasteful practices during peace time?
kmbjd40 said: "As to your second point, you are presenting a hypothetical situation that has no basis in reality"
This is not a hypothetical situation. It is a reality. I am acquainted with people who are making these choices.
Are you okay with it?
(continued).
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmbjd40 said: "Thirdly, yes AIG's problems were caused by govt intervention because what happened to them is directly tied to the collapse of the real estate markets. AIG was insuring a lot of these bad mortgages and mortgage backed securities"
I agree AIG's problems were directly tied to the collapse of the real estate markets, but I do not believe they were caused by government intervention. See excerpts from AP article:
"It can be a fine line between investing and gambling but in Las Vegas, you know the odds. On Wall Street, that's not always the case.
Especially when it comes to the $62 trillion market in arcane financial contracts known as "credit default swaps".
So what are credit default swaps and how have they caused all this trouble?
The swaps are a form of insurance, but they aren't regulated that way.
Say a big investor buys a bond from a company. But the investor is worried about the company's ability to pay off that bond. The investor goes to a third party like AIG, for example, and buys protection in the form of a credit default swap contract. AIG agrees to pay the investor the value of the bond in the event the company defaults on it. The issuer of the credit default swap doesn't write this insurance for free. It gets a fee, usually a percentage of the value of the bond.
The transactions are made "over the counter" meaning they are not regulated by any public exchange.
And since these contracts are not considered "insurance," Greenberger said, the companies that guarantee the bonds are not required to keep enough capital on hand to pay them off in the event of a default.
As housing prices rose and more people could get mortgages despite questionable credit records, mortgage-backed securities were an attractive place for pension funds and other investors to park their money.
"Were it not for that insurance, it certainly wouldn't have reached this manic state of growth," Greenberger said of the questionable investments.
Buyers of credit default swap insurance are not required to own the underlying securities they are insuring.
In other words, the investor can buy insurance on a mortgage-backed security without having to buy the security itself. When that security turns sour, whoever is holding the credit default contract, whether they actually own the security or not - can demand payment for the face value of the security.
Because the market is unregulated, the size of the credit default market is difficult to estimate."
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 11:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well OK I am sorry for getting so mad at notfromnatchez.
What is it when somebody insults your own service time with their mockery that makes you want to punch them? Oh well...
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 6:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am been serving for over 13 years now. I have been to the Middle East twice. I look to go back a third time if needed. I volunteered both times...and will again and again.
So when idiots like you call us "warmongers" I take offense to that. You don't have a single clue what you are talking about. If you have not been there first hand to witness what good has been done over there...or what progress has been made, you should keep your mouth shut.
CNN DOES NOT GIVE YOU ALL THE ANSWERS. They only show you morons what you want to hear.
I think you are the coward for sitting on the sidelines and quarterbacking from the comfort of your computer desk.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
For the last 8 years yall have been trying to tell us that the reason the war is being fought over there is to fight for our freedoms. One of those freedoms is supposed to be freedom of speech.
Some of you are saying that you just like to debate, but when a debate turns into slinging barbs and criticisms against the persons with whom you are debating, it stops being a debate.
John McCain, his wife, and Sarah Palin are inciting rage and promoting violence which all of them seem to be enjoying a little too much. Inciting rage is against the law; very dangerous and they know not what they do!
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 7:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here you go notfromnatchez, your NEXT Commander in Chief !! I'm sure you will be Proud to Serv her!!
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/1...
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." Mark Twain
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
“Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong”
--Stephen Decatur
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 7:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I would be more than happy to serve John Mccain, Sarah Palin, Obama or Biden. I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. So by that virtue I will support whomever is elected. I have a voice in who I vote for, but ultimately it is the people of the United States that have the final say. I am not like you...Oldhippie...I love my country. I will give my life to defend her.
I am sorry that you were drafted...but those times have changed. The men and women who serve now do so of their own free will. They understand what they are getting into. And they are brave for excepting that challenge.
You probably cried every night you were in 'Nam, becaue they didn't issue you any tampons...you big "Cat".
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I know it can be confusing to face it when someone at home has the stuff to oppose your Commander in Chief in your behalf -- notfromnatchez. I know how much you can want to believe -- need to believe.
I am a vet of the Vietnam Era, and after quite a few years you end up -- if you are still growing and learning -- feeling differently about how you got used and abused when you look back and see the details hidden in the moment -- and what it was really good for.
Nobody I served with realized till long later that they were used in a ploy that killed 3 million Vietnamese-- basically so Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon and Barry Goldwater could get in political one-upping contest and see who could win elections using the soldiers and the Vietnamese people. Many could never accept they were used that way till this day. Another country that never attacked us. For what?
The lies of that era were in hindsight visible to everyone just like the lies of this administration -- they know when they tell them it will take a while to sort them out. And the more involved one is the longer it takes to sort the feelings and thoughts, so I'll give you a pass on your opinion as thanks for your service.
The lesson for the post Vietnam era is look how we can agitate terrorists to strike us back when we kill in Muslim regions -- no matter what we state as our motives, killing innocent people in foreign lands always seems to irritate someone there and we can never stop the reprisals. Eventually they will be nuclear if someone does not stop this. So that is what I am doing.
Don't lie and cast me as someone who does not support the troops when I blame your Commander in Chief.
Were it not for people like me to balance the politicos we would constantly be in wars not much more than political gambles. The founding fathers rightly chose to make our government civilian controlled for exactly the reason Eisenhower warned us about in his closing address -- those in the military and in industries that support it can have different needs and motives than the country at large. It is a part of your service.
You have selected to be active for this long, and I appreciate it. I do not have to appreciate what they are using you for. If you want to fight for the rightness of your use in Iraq and the region, for the way it was done, so your CIC could blame you guys on the ground for Abu Grahib, so you could set up a country that if they get to vote they will side with Iran, then that is your right.
We don't need to talk further about if one of us is more of a coward before they accept they were misused than after they accept it. And it does not diminish you one bit to be misused by politicians -- that is part of military service. That's about all I need to say on this.
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 8:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Listen to this - this is a HOOT!
http://www.bpmdeejays.com/upload/hs_sal_...
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
notfromnatchez
. I am not like you...Oldhippie...I love my country. I will give my life to defend her.<<<<<<< I respect you for that,BUT the fact is that all you are defending is a groupe of Profiteers. There is NOTHING or NO ONE in IRAQ that is NOW, or EVER WAS a threat to this Country! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am sorry that you were drafted..<<<<<<<< OK fella, I have given you the benifit of the doubt, because YOU SAY that you are in the MILITARY. I have no way of knowing that is true, I just have to take your word for that. "BUT" if YOU want ME and others to RESPECT YOUR SERVICE, you need to climb down off of your high Horse and STOP DIS-RESPECTING MY SERVICE!!! I WAS NOT DRAFTED!! I VOLUNTEERED ON MY SEVENTEENTH BIRTH DAY!! I put in Seven years eleven Months and nineteen days and have the DD214's and Citations to prove it, so I HAVE PAID MY DUES and NOW I am exercizing my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to dis-agree with my Government!>>>>>>>>>>.but those times have changed. The men and women who serve now do so of their own free will. <<<<<<<< I DID TO>>>>>>>>They understand what they are getting into.<<<<<<<<< SOME may, but not ALL>>>>>>>>>>>>> And they are brave for excepting that challenge.<<<<<<<< NO ARGUEMENT there>>>>>>>
You probably cried every night you were in 'Nam, becaue they didn't issue you any tampons...you big "Cat".<<<<< If you were to say something like that TO MY FACE, YOU would need a LOT OF TAMPONS and a Sergon to sew your Man hood back on,( and you can take THAT to the damn bank!!)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Nothing like finding a black idiot to make a McCain supporter feel like a man, huh?
You should hear my piney-woods relatives talk about Obama. Still figure he is a muslim and that Saddam Hussein had nuclear weapons and bombed the world trade center.
But truth is, if you're white, the more ignorant and uneducated you are, the more likely you support McCain and the Republicans -- and that's a fact. Intelligent and educated folks don't like to be lied to as much so they go with the other side.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)
MS- Give me a break, how do you spell DOCTORED TAPE !!!
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
LOL - I figured I would get a rise out of you guys - so what if it is doctored - it is still funny and I would feel the same way if it were turned around - lighten up! Have a great day! It's Friday!
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh I dont know about that oldhippie, Notfromnatchez is known for defeating the almighty Chuck Norris (with one finger)!
Notfromntz, congratulations on that apology from yeahuhuh. I could hardly believe my eyes when I saw that. Hmm, there must be some sort of heart attached to his fingers I wasn't aware of.
YIKES, dow is down to 8348. SCARY... BUT what is that saying "Buy low, sale high", this may be a good time to invest and that may be what gets us out of this crunch.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
huhuh, it is the more ignorant and uneducated folks that vote for the democrats. This is why they target the poor, uneducated voters, they will not vote against their "gift horse".
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
That post of mine above was sent in response to the radio link from MSviaTN
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
MSviaTN that is hilarious! And SOOO representational of the classic democratic "dummy" vote. It also helps that Obama is half black.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And I was referring to your third paragraph, it's not true, or a LIE as you like to state.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Obamayamama, Your Hero Cluck Norris has never impressed me either[typo intentional]. While I am still in excellent shape for a 68 year old Man, I have sense enough to know that I am a 68 year old Man. That being said, I stand behind what I said,( there are many ways to accomplish the same end result).
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I said, bunny, among white people, the more educated you are the more you tend to vote Democrat.
You got to read EXACTLY what I wrote if you want to keep up.
Now you go look that up you sweet little rabbit. I know you would like to think otherwise, but you just assume things are like you wish because you are more ignorant and less educated.
Honestly, look it up. Didn't I already post you a link for that?
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
HuHuh - if something is a FACT - their is research to back it up - where is the research that supports this "fact".
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I wonder what the media would do if McCain had ties to a former racist domestic terrorists that blew up abortion clinincs or if his pastor of 20 years were an Anti-American racists?
Do you think we would EVER hear the end of it? Yet they let the whole Ayers and Wright relationships drop and buried the story. Why is that?
The media is supporting Obama so we only get one story, don't you care or want to know who your next president is? He lies every opportunity he gets, most recently about his involvement in the ACORN group. Yet the media fails to report it.
It really makes me angry! Also, the media is making this economic far worse than it could be. Responsible journalism is DEAD!
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I got this by e-mail...interesting.
How long is the beast allowed to have authority in Revelations?
Revelations Chapter 13 tells us it is 42 months, and you know what that is. Almost a four-year term of a Presidency.
All I can say is 'Lord, Have mercy on us!'
According to The Book of Revelations the anti-Christ is: The anti-Christ will be a man, in his 40's, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with Persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal....the prophecy says that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace,
And when he is in power, will destroy everything..
Do we recognize this description??
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
WOW! happybunny, that was fierce!
Why is it that Democrats support "giving"? Look at what giving has gotten us, LOOK AT THE STOCK MARKET, it fell last week due to the $700 billion plan falling through. Now, anyone would think that since the $700 billion plan did pass, the stock market would NOT continue to fall even more. Now Pelosi wants to pass yet another bailout plan (half the amt of the previous). Look at where all of this giving is getting us. We need to conserve, all of us. We need to quit spending, quit accepting something for nothing, work hard, and conserve.
happybunny, you have a valid point, Democrats want socialism. Capitalism is disappearing right before our eyes. These people want socialism because they have nothing to protect, they have nothing and want something. That something is now referred to as "CHANGE" - something for nothing.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Your right yamama, I was planning to redo my kitchen among other thngs but now I think I'll wait a while. I have bought some cheap stock and plan to buy some more. If everyone would get that mentality, the market would rebound. The media has got everyone so scared they are selling at huge losses. I feel sorry for those people.
The bailout was/is a load of manure! I said all along, suspend the capital gains tax, eliminate or reduce the corporate tax rate, and eliminate the mark to market provision. Let the economy work itself out.
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
happybunny, sorry but that stuff is not in the Bible. But Revelation does contain a severe warning for people who add to or subtract from the book. Please be careful. The author of that e-mail is playing at his own peril.
Best wishes to you.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
happybunny, let's not get carried away with Obama. He is nothing more than your typical hack Democrat politician. He's only broken the 50% mark a few times in the polls in a year when a Democrat nominee should be polling above 60%, such is the ignorance of a good portion of the American electorate. Obama is merely anti-American, not the anti-Christ.
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good morning ya'll . I'm going to say something that might get us disabled . It is not my intent and I hope I can exercize my freedom of speech without insulting anyone. I'm going to use the"D" word .
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Bush administration did a good job promoting the idea that U. S. citizens who opposed his decision to invade Iraq did not support our military.
And a good job promoting the idea that U. S. citizens who opposed his decision to invade Iraq did not love their country.
Four years ago, the Bush campaign unmercifully attacked John Kerry for expressing opposition to the VietNam war as a young man returning from military duty there. George Bush was not there.
Thanks for your post, Yeahuhuh.
Some vets were abused by U. S. citizens when they returned from Nam. God forbid that happen to the soldiers returning from Iraq.
I've read of a rash of Army recruiter suicides in at least one area of our country. Is it possible pressure to meet enlistment quotas contribute to this? Should we reinstate the draft?
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No the "D"word is not democrat . It is a name in politics that I find a parallel with obama . This man was associated with an undesirable organization 20 yrs before he decided to run for president . He wanted to "change" Washington with his morals and values . People didn't give him a chance, rightfully so . I wonder if he were a minority if he would have made it in politics . He has charisma . He's well spoken. He dares to be different and feels he has americans best interest at heart . He is very smart . He had a lot of influental people behind him at one time . They were in the dark shadows of politics just like obamas.He also had a great love for money and power. Just like obama. His name is "DAVID DUKE".
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Msivia --
"Whites without a college degree favor McCain by 17 percent while those with one prefer Obama by 9 percent."
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank...
This is one of a great many polls and studies that prove what I said is true. This references an article in The New Republic online but there are many sources for anyone that really wants to know.
The higher one's education, the more people tend to see through the lies that keep the minority party selling itself into power through misinformation. The less educated you are the more gullible you are -- or tend to be. There are exceptions, and there are people on both sides that just vote their pocketbook.
But by and large if you hate lying in government and you are well educated you more tend to dislike Republicans. Their information and talking points are selected to win the votes of the lower education half of the majority white voter audience. That is how they get elected.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So by your logic...if you are educated and can see through lies...then surely you must be a democrat.
How about throwing in Middle Class? Does that fit mold too?
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
HAY RABBIT -- Tell us how Revelations words the warning the Antichrist will be of Muslim descent.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It is quite amusing how Obama and Biden both refer to the "Middle Class" when, if fact, it should be the "Lower Class'. I guess people would take offense to being called the "Lower Class". Both of these are sub-terms stemming from the main term: Working Class
Marx himself argued that it was the destiny of the working class to displace the capitalist system with socialism, changing the social relationships underpinning the class system and then developing into a future classless and stateless communist society in which "the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all." (From The Communist Manifesto).
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Upper class; Those with great influence, wealth and prestige. Members of this group tend to act as the grand-conceptualizers and have tremendous influence of the nation's institutions. This class makes up about 1% of the population and owns about a third of private wealth.
Upper middle class; The upper middle class consists of white collar professionals with advanced post-secondary educational degrees and comfortable personal incomes. Upper middle class professionals have large amounts of autonomy in the workplace and therefore enjoy high job satisfaction. In terms of income and considering the 15% figure used by Thompson, Hickey and Gilber, upper middle class professionals earn roughly $62,500 (€41,000 or £31,500) or more and tend to reside in households with six figure incomes.[9][12][22]
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I got this by e-mail...interesting.
How long is the beast allowed to have authority in Revelations?
Revelations Chapter 13 tells us it is 42 months, and you know what that is. Almost a four-year term of a Presidency.
All I can say is 'Lord, Have mercy on us!'
According to The Book of Revelations the anti-Christ is: The anti-Christ will be a man, in his 40's, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with Persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal....the prophecy says that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace,
And when he is in power, will destroy everything..
Do we recognize this description??
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You are a blithering IDIOT lady,( and I use that term loosly). I heard and read all of that CRAP as a kid, being brought up by a Pentecostal Mother, bles her heart she was
BRAIN WASHED" just as "YOU ARE". OR WORSE, you know beter and are just preaching to the Choir. In either case, I'm through with you..........
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/1......
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/1......
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
(Lower) middle class; Semi-professionals, non-retail salespeople and craftsmen who have some college education. Out-sourcing tends to be a prominent problem among those in this class who often suffer from a lack of job security. Households in this class may need two income earners to make ends meet and therefore may have household incomes rivaling the personal incomes of upper middle class professionals such as attorneys.
Working class; According to some experts such as Michael Zweig, this class may constitute the majority of Americans and include those otherwise referred to as lower middle. It includes blue as well as white collar workers who have relatively low personal incomes and lack college degrees with many being among the 45% of Americans who have never attended college.
Lower class; This class includes the poor, alienated and marginalized members of society. While most individuals in this class work, it is common for them to drift in and out of poverty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_clas...
This is the explanation as to why Obama's campaign is mainly aimed toward the "Middle Class". The population of this country is predominantly middle class and below. Good tactic Barack, you know how to make something for nothing sound so good to these people.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No notfromnatchez that is not what I said.
I said if you are more educated and white you TEND to be for Democrats more than Republicans.
There may also be uneducated Democrats voting for their pocketbook, just as there are undeducated whites voting Republican for their pocketbook, too, and probably more of them.
I also said there were exceptions and some people just vote their pocketbook.
I do not know the breakdown on what you would call "middle class" would be. Would that be income level? Or a socioeconomic structure otherwise?
You see we don't think quite so much by stereotype and presupposition as conservatives think. We tend to enjoy complexity and examine things a little more -- I know the other side thinks we are stupid to do that -- that we ought to jump to something more obvious and threatening. Those traits say a lot about who we all are.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeahuhuh you said "if you are more educated and white you TEND to be for Democrats more than Republicans."
So I ask...if you are uneducated and minority than you should be Republican?
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Marx himself argued that it was the destiny of the working class to displace the capitalist system with socialism, changing the social relationships underpinning the class system and then developing into a future classless and stateless communist society in which "the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all." (From The Communist Manifesto).
http://startthinkingright.wordpress.com/...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,3541...
http://www.investors.com/editorial/edito...
We are in trouble folks if Obama gets in office.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The code also warns blacks to avoid the white "entrapment of black middle-classness," suggesting that settling for that kind of "competitive" success will rob blacks of their African identity and keep them "captive" to white culture.
In short, Obama's "unashamedly black" church preaches the politics of black nationalism. And its dashiki-wearing preacher — who married Obama and his wife and now acts as his personal spiritual adviser — is militantly Afrocentric. "We are an African people," the Rev. Jeremiah Wright reminds his flock, "and remain true to our native land, the mother continent."
It comes as little surprise then that Wright would think Israel a "racist" occupier of Palestinians, while describing the 9/11 attacks as a "wake-up call" to "white America" for ignoring the concerns of "people of color."
http://www.investors.com/editorial/edito...
Bring it on yeahuhuh.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No, I didn't say that either.
But if you are white and less educated you tend to be Republican. especially in the south.
Let's remember that being a black uneducated type you could not be more than about 10% of the population, except in a few places. If you are white and uneducated your percentage of the population would be larger, except in a few places. So ignerant white folks should be able to out vote ignerunt black folks just about anywhere -- with some exceptions.
There is not much reason for ignerunt white folks to be scared of an ignerunt black vote surge stealing the presidential election because of the population figures. But if they can't do math they might be real scared of that. Something has them scared of black racial and Democratic votes. Maybe it's bein' ignerunt?
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
notfromnatchez, I believe my exposure to lying, manipulation and mis-directed anger better qualifies me to see through lies than any academic education I might have.
Willingness to accept that people you trust and respect are not really concerned about anyone but themselves is hard to swallow.
Denial is much easier.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If a President Obama's foreign and domestic policies are anything like the Afrocentric doctrine he's pledged to uphold, Americans will pay a hefty price, including those among the growing black middle class.
http://www.investors.com/editorial/edito...
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
HuHuh - if you do not think that lies happen among all party lines then you are delusional and not intelligent yourself.
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The may not all life but democrats and republicans alike will spin something to make themselves look better - ALL POLITICIANS DO IT - to be honest - I am not impressed with either of the candidates and did not support either of them in the beginning - to me it is just a choice of the lesser of two evils.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
WAKE UP!!!!! Do you all really want to see your country be over-ruled by uneducated, under achieving people? This will be the type of people our kids will look up to! Why achieve secondary education if there is no reward (larger salary)?
This country will be taking a turn for the worst. If Obama gets elected, I will NOT have children. I will not make them grow up in a country ran by illegitimate Under-achievers.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Calm down...that is why I pefaced it by saying I received it in an e-mail, that doesn't make it correct, I just found it interesting.
duhuhuh...you are the first to point out that not everything you read is the truth, in fact you call it a lie. You have proven absolutely nothing as usual.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yep, I had to pay for my own way through school which taught me financial responsibility and self reliance. I also had a great deal more respect for my grades.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
" If Obama gets elected, I will NOT have children."
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Dang!!! There may be a GOD after all!!
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So bunny, what is the wording in Revelation that calls the Antichrist a muslim.? I would like to know because Mohammed came along a good while after the Bible was written and I would like to know how it was worded for you to cite such a thing from an email.
And all I hoped to prove rabbit was that there are plenty of studies that show among white folks, the more education you have the less likely you are to vote Republican. I proved that well enough for the forum here -- if you didn't get it -- nothing new.
Msvia -- I never said either party didn't lie. Everybody on the planet lies as far as I can tell. Republicans lie far more than Democrats -- that's what you have to do to get a 38% party elected to govern 100% of the people. If they could win on the truth of their positions we would have at least 50% Republicans in our voter rolls but we don't -- do I have to prove that, too?
You guys are getting so confused over interpreting a very literal statement I made, how can you trust yourselves with complicated things?
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey oldhippie and yeahuhuh, can you say ACORN?
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
duhuhuh...I just said I prefaced my post by saying I got it in an e-mail, sorry pal I don't have a bible at my desk. You look it up if you're so curious.
All you did prove is that you are a hipocrit, anyone that posts something of a differing opinion from your is a liar and collecting information from a lying website. Well what are you doing exactly?
psychohippie...please just go away...you lend nothing to this conversation, accoring to duhuhuh, you should be a Republican.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)
By the way duhuhuh, please provide some solid proof that Republicans lie more than Democrats....
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)
http://www.thefunnystuff.net/viewmovie.p...
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh well if you can't see that bunny you are probably a Republican -- and I can't tell you. I think this is one of those things that if you don't look yourself -- with some tiny measure of honest curiosity -- you probably will never see.
You could refer to those fact-check truth telling clips about who's been more honest in the debates, or whose claims are more often more dishonest. There are a lot of them on many networks. But if you think you automatically know more than any news agency you wouldn't believe anyone who could tell you. Brilliant gift to ignorance pretending to a segment of America they know more than the liberal media -- but it takes a particularly special person to believe that, too.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
oldfogie, I have refrained from being totally rude to you considering I have respect for my elders. You poke fun at my choice of not having kids, which I knew someone would.
I am glad to see it is a joke that the intelligent people and empathic people of this country are choosing to not have children BECAUSE of the multiplying of ignorant people. And if Obama gets in there and starts the beginning of the end, I do not want my kids to have to deal with overpowering idiocracy due to Obama's support for socialism.
Anyway, you can laugh, you still have social security THANKS TO US! Now go polish up that walker and replace those tennis balls. I think it is senior citizens day at La Fiesta.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If a President Obama's foreign and domestic policies are anything like the Afrocentric doctrine he's pledged to uphold, Americans will pay a hefty price, including those among the growing black middle class.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
yamama, I agree with you, I chose not to have children as well. This economic mess is not a surprise to me. Who knows what the future holds for us, it's not looking really good at this point.
Once again duhuhuh, you have avoided answering my request for proof by attempting to turn things around on me...not working. The truthfullness of the republican party vs. the democrats is something no one could ever prove with certainty so stop saying that and come up with something else.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 12:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Welfare people choose to have lots of kids because that means more money.
More kids from uneducated and non-working people...sounds like a winner there.
Idiocracy is HERE!!!
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 12:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
He did the same to me happybunny, but he APOLOGIZED to notfromnatchez!
Notfrom.... my hero..
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well what are you saying bunny, that if I don't put proof in front of you you win?
You can't do anything for yourself, can you? Use your noggin girl.
That is something difficult to prove empirically, yet can be totally true. But you can surmise from the 38% status of the party, the more ignorant voters your party attracts, and the fact check sites, etc that ignorance and simplistic emotional appeals are likely to be a significant part of your party's dynamic. How else could you be so sure of Reganomics and watch it come apart right in your face?
You could also reference that study awhile back that showed how ignorant FOX viewers are on current events. It would be a good project for you to Google up a library.
Yomama I don't get mad at you two. You are too stupid to get mad at. You are our whipping boys. We laugh at you. You are there to say stupid things about polls and Excel charts and education among voters and then claim you win when you act dumb. We need you guys.
notfromnatchez on the other hand irritated me enough to put him down. I apologized to everyone else for that.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
obamayamama (
oldfogie, I have refrained from being totally rude to you considering I have respect for my elders.<<<<<<<<<<<< You are such a sweetheart , I keep telling my Wife what a sweet person you are>>>>>>>>>>>You poke fun at my choice of not having kids, which I knew someone would.
I am glad to see it is a joke that the intelligent people and empathic people of this country are choosing to not have children BECAUSE of the multiplying of ignorant people.<<<<<<<<<No darlin, what it is, is yet another lie,( just like the one I just told you about all of that "sweet" crap, LOL.>>>>>>>>> And if Obama gets in there and starts the beginning of the end, I do not want my kids to have to deal with overpowering idiocracy due to Obama's support for socialism.<<<<<< Yeah, ok and I guess you have some Ocean Front Property in Arizona you would like to sell me, right??>>>>>>>>>
Anyway, you can laugh, you still have social security THANKS TO US!<<<<<<<<< NO, Thanks to Fifty Five Years of busting my Butt and being smart enough to survive EIGHT years of REGANOMIC'S and 7.10 Years of BUSH S*IT -OMICS, I don't OWE YOU NOTHING>>>>>>>Now go polish up that walker<<<<<< Don't need it Girl Friend, I would be willing to bet you some serious Money that I can out Walk you, both in speed and distance>>>>>>> and replace those tennis balls. I think it is senior citizens day at La Fiesta.<<<<<< EL Ranchero!!>>>>>>>>>:~)
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeahuhuh--It is funny that you laugh at obamayamama and others who don't agree with you. It is funny because we laugh at you just the same. We laugh at your "I am better than everyone" attitude. We laugh at your "stats" that you hold to be true.
You are a big joke...and the REALLY funny thing is you don't know it.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 3:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That's fine. notfromnatchez -- you were the Palin cheerleader weren't you? Nuf said about you.
We're winning. You keep laughing.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 3:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hahahah! Hey yeahuhuh, yet another example of your usage of your most common words: stupid, dumb.... ahaha
It is sad that you old men sit on here all the time continuing to think you are the smartest existing creatures alive. Meanwhile, it is you on Friday and Saturday nights that sit in front of a computer all alone, no life. Not me suckers, weekends, NO COMPUTER, weekends means having drinks, dancing, karaoke, maybe some horse riding, bicycling, and hanging with all of my great NON-LIBERAL friends.
So have fun Nerds, none of your negative comments matter in my life, they only allow me to understand what this dwindling country is coming to.
Posted by 2008 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have been reading these political blogs for days, no one is going to change thier minds here. But the future of our life as we know it will most certainly change with this election. A friend sent me this incredible website that has garnered over 200,000 responses since October 3rd. This 82 year old woman says it like it is and says it for thousands of women and men all over our country. All hope is not lost...check out http://margaretandhelen.wordpress.com
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 5:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Incredible website? Thought you meant incredibly good, as in 'will make you think'.
Posted by 2008 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well iameubu it may not be up to your literary standards, but that's not the point is it? The website may not have made YOU think but it certainly has made 187,130 people think, reflect, pass it on to their grandmothers, mothers and friends all over this great country. Your free to disagree, but it warms my heart to know that outside of this very SMALL town people are thinking and spreading the word.
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 5:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What word is that?
I saw nothing new.
Posted by 2008 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 5:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I hate to say this but there is nothing new to add to the blogs on the Natchez Democrat. But the concept of young and old, men and women responding to this website with such enthusiasim is heartening. Some of our wisest citizens are elderly, they lived through the Depression and have no fear in saying what they feel whether we agree or not. Considering how quickly you responded it is very obvious you did not read all the posts, (THAT WOULD TAKE HOURS). So unfortunate for you that you don't get it.
Posted by iameubu (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 6:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
2008 I will spend the HOURS reading as you suggest. I confess to having read only the first 3 posts. I dislike name-calling but appreciate reasoned arguments that make me think. I enjoy most those that realign the 'little grey cells'.
One of my favorite Americans would quite often say that the only qualification for public office should be that the candidate has to be a grandmother.
Posted by 2008 (anonymous) on October 10, 2008 at 6:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I dislike name calling to, which is why I have only written to the ND three or four times in as many years. Aside from the very frank language used by Margaret/Helen and the responses I find the comments inspiring, it crosses all genders and race from several countries. Not trying to change your mind just take a look outside of Natchez and see what other people are saying and thier reasons why. Since so many astute bloggers have drained the political well dry on these ND blogs, it's a breath of fresh air. Thanks for reading:)
Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on October 11, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Excuse me but I have to throw my two cents in on this topic......for those of you that are SERIOUSLY considering voting to put BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA in the White House let me tell you what I see happening day one of him being in office.
He will be sitting in the oval office with his feet propped up on the desk with his turban wrapped around his head and laughing his A-- off at the IDIOTS that put him in as PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!
Posted by GriffinC (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 2:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Anxious to jolt the economy back to life, President-elect Barack Obama is considering a federal stimulus package that could reach a whopping $1 trillion, dwarfing last spring's tax rebates and rivaling drastic government actions to fight the Great Depression. Cash advances for the economy are going to be available pretty soon. The economic stimulus package has passed both houses of congress and now has been signed by Obama. The vote had been contentious, with a good deal of partisan bickering, especially about tax cuts, but it has passed through and cash advances may be made available soon. The bulk of the money will likely be spent as soon as 18 months, and it has been said that up to 4 million jobs will be created by it. Check out this article: http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/...
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