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McCain, Obama clash on cause, cure for econ crisis
Published Tuesday, October 7, 2008
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Barack Obama and John McCain clashed repeatedly over the causes and cures for the worst economic crisis in 80 years Tuesday night in a debate in which Republican McCain called for sweeping action by the government to directly shield many homeowners from mortgage foreclosure.
‘‘It’s my proposal. It’s not Sen. Obama’s proposal, it’s not President Bush’s proposal,’’ McCain said in the debate that he hoped could revive his fortunes in a presidential race trending toward his rival.
In one pointed confrontation on foreign policy, Obama bluntly challenged McCain’s steadiness. ‘‘This is a guy who sang bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, who called for the annihilation of North Korea — that I don’t think is an example of speaking softly.’’
That came after McCain accused him of foolishly threatening to invade Pakistan and said, ‘‘I’m not going to telegraph my punches, which is what Sen. Obama did.’’
The debate was the second of three between the two major party rivals, and the only one to feature a format in which voters seated a few feet away posed questions to the candidates.
They were polite, but the strain of the campaign showed. At one point, McCain referred to Obama as ‘‘that one,’’ rather than speaking his name.
‘‘It’s good to be with you at a town hall meeting,’’ McCain also jabbed at his rival, who has spurned the Republican’s calls for numerous such joint appearances across the fall campaign.
They debated on a stage at Belmont University four weeks before Election Day in a race that has lately favored Obama, both in national polls and in surveys in pivotal battleground states.
Not surprisingly, many of the questions dealt with an economy in trouble.
Obama said the current crisis was the ‘‘final verdict on the failed economic policies of the last eight years’’ that President Bush pursued and were ‘‘supported by Sen. McCain.’’
He contended that Bush, McCain and others had favored deregulation of the financial industry, predicting that would ‘‘let markets run wild and prosperity would rain down on all of us. It didn’t happen.’’
McCain’s pledge to have the government help individual homeowners avoid foreclosure went beyond the details of the bailout that recently cleared Congress. The legislation allows but does not require Treasury to purchase mortgages directly. Obama has said previously that idea should be studied, and his campaign contended McCain’s proposal was not a new one.
McCain’s campaign issued a written statement that said the $300 billion cost of his initiative would be paid out of the $700 billion approved late last week.
‘‘I would order the secretary of the Treasury to immediately buy up the bad home loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes, at the diminished value of those homes, and let people be able to make those payments and stay in their homes,’’ he said.
‘‘Is it expensive? Yes. But we all know, my friends, until we stabilize home values in America, we’re never going to start turning around and creating jobs and fixing our economy, and we’ve got to give some trust and confidence back to America.’’
McCain also said it was important to reform the giant benefit programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
‘‘My friends, we are not going to be able to provide the same benefit for present-day workers that present-day retirees have today,’’ he said, although he did not elaborate.
The two men also competed to demonstrate their qualifications as reformers at a time voters are clamoring for change.
McCain accused Obama of being the Senate’s second-highest recipient of donations from individuals at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two now-disgraced mortgage industry giants.
‘‘There were some of us who stood up against it,’’ McCain said of the lead-up to the financial crisis. ‘‘There were others who took a hike.’’
Obama shot back that McCain’s campaign manager, Rick Davis, has a stake in a Washington lobbying firm that received thousands of dollars a month from Freddie Mac until recently.
Pivoting quickly to show his concern with members of the audience listening from a few feet away, he said, ‘‘You’re not interested in politicians pointing fingers. What you’re interested in is trying to figure out, how is this going to impact you.’’
But that didn’t stop the two men from criticizing one another repeatedly as the topics turned to energy, spending, taxes and health care.
Obama said McCain was going to require taxes on the health benefits workers receive from their employers at the same time his plan would wipe out the ability of states to enforce their own regulations to require tests such as mammograms.
McCain countered that under his rival’s plan ‘‘Sen. Obama will fine you’’ if parents fail to obtain coverage for their children but had yet to say what the fine would be. ‘‘Perhaps we will find that out tonight,’’ he said.
Obama quickly followed up, saying that McCain ‘‘voted against the expansion’’ of the children’s health care program the government runs.
The two men prefer dramatically different approaches to easing the problem of millions of uninsured Americans. McCain favors a $5,000 tax credit that he says would allow families to find and afford health care on their own.
Obama wants to build on the current system, in which millions receive coverage through the workplace, with government funding to help uninsured families obtain coverage.
Obama also said that American International Group Inc., which was bailed out by the government, should give the Treasury $440,000 to cover the costs of a company retreat at a posh California resort less than a week after the federal intervention. ‘‘Those executives should be fired,’’ he said, referring to the participants in the retreat.
The debate also veered into foreign policy, and the disputes were as intense as on the economy and domestic matters.
McCain said his rival ‘‘was wrong about Iraq and the surge. He was wrong about Russia when they committed aggression against Georgia. And in his short career he does not understand our national security challenges. We don’t have time for on the job training.’’
Obama countered with a trace of sarcasm that he didn’t understand some things — like how the United States could face the challenge in does in Afghanistan after spending years and hundreds of billions of dollars in Iraq.
The audience was selected by Gallup, the polling organization, and was split three ways among voters leaning toward McCain, those leaning toward Obama and those undecided.
Tom Brokaw of NBC, the moderator, screened their questions and also chose others that had been submitted online.
Comments
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Barack Obama won the debate tonight.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
‘‘I would order the secretary of the Treasury to immediately buy up the bad home loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes, at the diminished value of those homes, and let people be able to make those payments and stay in their homes,’’ he said.
Does McCain mean the Treasury would buy the bad loans at what's owed on them and renegotiate that amount or what today's market price (the new value) is on the home?
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
((Obama said McCain was going to require taxes on the health benefits workers receive from their employers))
If McCain is planning to tax the health benefits workers receive from their employers, does that mean workers will have to claim money paid for those benefits as income?
What about the people with pre-existing conditions that get turned down by insurance companies for coverage and
if a person doesn't have the money to purchase health insurance in the first place, how will the $5000 credit help them?
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
$2 trillion wiped out of retirement funds
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/reti...
The financial meltdown has demolished Americans' retirement savings, wiping out $2 trillion — or about 20% of value — in the past 15 months, Congress' top budget analyst said Tuesday.
Posted by frogprincenessntz (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Obama also said that American International Group Inc., which was bailed out by the government, should give the Treasury $440,000 to cover the costs of a company retreat at a posh California resort less than a week after the federal intervention. ‘‘Those executives should be fired,’’ he said, referring to the participants in the retreat."
Since he was the second highest recipient of Fannie Mae-Freddie Mac pac money, is he willing to repay the American people the 160,000+ that he took?
He seems to think we are idiots who do not understand that the Democratically controlled Congress is who has voted most of these bad money bills into law, not George Bush. You want real change, send the senators and representatives home.
Posted by lookingout (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Amen frogprincenessntz..
Posted by rhymeandreason (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
according to cnn fact check this a.m. - mccain actually received more money from fannie/freddie directors/management than obama!
cnn stated the obama contributions came from rank and file workers of that organization....
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm still voting McCain/Palin . I don't trust Obama . I believe we need a clean slate in Congress .
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"I'm Voting for That One" t-shirts are available at the following website:
http://www.cafepress.com/xerotopia.31502...
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
According to Gallup: "only 9% of Americans are satisfied with the way things are going in the United States -- the lowest such reading in Gallup Poll history."
Considering the above fact, is it any wonder thinking people are fleeing the GOP candidate in droves?
Americans clearly understand we cannot take 4 more years of the last eight years.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks for the Link SouthernWoman, I like that.
Good Posat N.southside, good points.
Southernbelle you and I both know that you aren't afraid of the "Boogie Man", but we also had no doubt as to who you were Voting for. I respect you for sticking to your Looser, LOL............
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
To tax healthcare benefits provided by employers, the employee will be forced to claim that amount as income making his income higher than his earned income for the year, which puts him in a higher tax bracket and increases his overall taxes. Right now, employees don't have to claim the portion of healthcare benefits paid for by their employer as income; plus, the portion of healthcare premiums employees pay most often is taken out of their gross income before taxes making their taxable income less than their gross amount of income.
IE: Mr. Jones gross income is $30,000. At present, Mr. Jones taxable income, which is less what he paid in insurance premiums and what he paid into his 401k, is $25,000. (these are made up amounts and not exact)
With McCain's plan, if healthcare benefits are to be taxed, Mr. Jones has to claim the amount of healthcare premiums paid by his employer and his gross amount of taxable income goes up to $30,000 plus whatever amount the employer paid for his benefits and he doesn't get the benefit of taxes after healthcare premiums. Let's say the employer pays $5000 in healthcare benefits. This would mean that Mr. Jones now has to pay taxes on $35,000 less the amount he paid into his 401k, putting him in a much higher tax bracket and making him middle class instead of poverty level.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh, the stupidity. First, associating "CNN" with "fact" is a bit of an oxymoron. But why don't we examine a few facts. The "deregulation" that Obama and the rest of the Dems keep talking about, as I've stated here before, was signed into law by Bill Clinton and supported by Joe Biden and a host of other Dems. Bill Ayers hired Obama to distribute the 50 million dollar education grant he'd received, money intended, in Ayers words as written on the grant application, to radicalize the education of young people. Obama gave the money to radical left-wing groups. And as I've said before, anybody who wishes to be President of the United States shouldn't, and should have the judgement to have never, had any association at all with an anti-American terrorist. Obama is still insisting on raising taxes, taking money out of the private sector and giving it to the government, with the economy in the state it's in. Unbelievable. The height of stupidity. He wants to put the government in charge of health care, when government intervention in healthcare was what caused the problems we see today, just as government intervention (or I should say Democrat intervention) in the free market has caused this economic mess. So Obama thinks the cause of these problems are the solution to these problems. That's kind of like giving a person cancer in order to cure his cancer.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The only way we can get a clean slate in congress is to impeach them all right now and get new folks up in there. McCain has been there for 26 years. Palin will be easy for him to manipulate and she will be the deciding vote when the house and senate are tied.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Obama was invited to Ayers house by the woman who selected him to run for her seat in senate which she was vacating. He was introduced by the woman. The woman may have known at the time about Ayers past, maybe someone could ask her, but Obama just being introduced would not have know Ayers past. Obama has also stated that he does not agree with Ayers method of protest.
My question regarding Ayers is why is the man not in prison and why is he being allowed to teach in a college? Is this a failure of US law enforcement?
Now if you want to pull skeletons out of the closet check out Palin's closet and John McCain's. John McCain has a connection to Iran Contra and is married to the mob thru Cindy's father. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopi... Palin has skeletons thru Alaska Independence Party and Joe Vogler http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/0...
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
1. CNN reported. They didn't take the poll.
2. Reagan first repealed Glass Steagle which started the downward trend in fed regulation of Wall St. Clinton went further after heavy lobbying by Greenspan and Congress. The GOP controlled Congress then.
3. Palin's husband was a member of an Alaska terrorist group that advocated the violent secession of Alaska. McCain was a member of an anti-semetic organization.
4. I get a BIGGER tax cut from Obama's plan. Anyone who doesn't think that the rich need to pay a little more so that we can get out from under $4TRILLION in debt is braindead.
5. Obama is not touching my healthcare--isn't touching anyone's private healthcare. If you can't get healthcare (pre-existing condition) or cannot afford it he has ideas for covering people--that makes it cheaper for the tax payer--since we are NOW paying for routine care at more expensive Emergency Room rates.
6. The GOP ran Congress from 1996 to 2006 and the White House from 2001 to 2008. Why haven't they done anything to ebd all the social welfare benefits that GOPers whine incessantly about? Why when they had the votes did the do NOTHING?
7. Mississippi has been run by the GOP for decades. Why is Miss. STILL at the bottom of almost ALL state rankings?? The GOP is NOT the answer. Last place in almost all state rankings?? Please. WAKE UP!
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:23 a.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
AIG got a LOAN from the US Govt. Not a bailout.
Since the $440,00 came from the loan it is to be expected that the money will be paid back. That's what you do with loans.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
From Andy McCarthy who is a conservative writer for the National Review. That is a conservative publication.
"... With due respect, I think tonight was a disaster for our side. I'm dumbfounded that no one else seems to think so. Obama did everything he needed to do, McCain did nothing he needed to do. What am I missing?"
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
correction: Our national debt is $10 trillion. ($80,000 for every family of 4 in this country)
Still don't think the government doesn't need to increase taxes on the rich?
How will that $10 trillion (and increasing every second!) ever be paid off?
Oh, wait, we will wish it away.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"My question regarding Ayers is why is the man not in prison and why is he being allowed to teach in a college? Is this a failure of US law enforcement?"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Good question T-4 Change. The answer is because the man has NOT VIOLATED THE LAW. He has only,( 30 years ago) exercised his "CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH". While it is true that the SUPREEM COURT has decreed that MONEY IS A FORM OF SPEECH, they DID NOT rule that one had to have money to speak. I can only guess that is what has put a burr under the Republicans Blanket. They seem to be under the impression that the Constitution was written to protect the RICH and POWERFULfrom the POOR, when in fact, it was written for just the opposite reason.............
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
SUPREME
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As we speak, ACORN (whom the democrats wanted to slide some fast cash to in the bailout bill) is being investigated nationwide for voter fraud. They are bussing homeless folks in in Ohio to register and vote the same day. The most recent allegations emerged yesterday after Nevada authorities raided the group's Las Vegas offices. Authorities are investigating reports of fake or duplicate voter registrations submitted by ACORN, including some using the names of Dallas Cowboys football players.
Investigators have alleged that ACORN hired 59 inmates on work release as canvassers. One inmate who had worked as a "team leader" for ACORN told investigators that "some of the canvassers hired by ACORN were 'lazy crackheads' who were not interested in working and just wanted money," according to the search warrant affidavit. Earlier in the week, election officials in Lake County, IN reported that nearly half of the 2,040 registrations submitted by ACORN on county's final day of registration were deemed "suspicious" because of missing or incorrect information or other irregularities.
And this is the party you jack...oops donkey's want to elect!
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
7. Mississippi has been run by the GOP for decades. Why is Miss. STILL at the bottom of almost ALL state rankings?? The GOP is NOT the answer. Last place in almost all state rankings?? Please. WAKE UP!
South Side Miss. ranks #1 for FAT REPUBLICANS!! ROTF LMAO !!!
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Also... ACORN and Project Vote have been implicated in voter fraud in 15 states since 2004 or that the former head of Project Vote was Barack Obama, or that even knowing about Project Vote's voter fraud record the DNC hired them for $800,000 to handle voter registration in the swing states.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good morning Happy Bunny!! Desperation time huh? If ANY ONE has broken the LAW, they should be arested, otherwise it sounds like a lot of suspicion, with little evidence at this time. You should be careful how you refer to "HOMELESS PEOPLE", because YOU could be before this Economic Calamity is over..........
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
happy: and what does ACORN and PV have to do with the GOP's lack of doing ANYTHING for decades that would move Mississippi from last place in almost all state rankings?
Please, can you focus on something relevant and worthwhile rather than circus sideshow distractions?
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here is a Video of your Presidential Candidate Happy Bunny, take a good look at him........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAyK-enrF...
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Olhipppie - are you serious - those people on that video have an agenda - come on - give us something more than that - you can find just as many videos on youtube that make Obama look just as bad.
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Mississippi may be at the bottom of all the lists but people need to stop pointing fingers and take some responsibility themselves. Walk outside and look around, what can you do to make a difference. Politicians can't fix what's wrong here only the people can. We've known for years republicans and democrats alike have not had our best interests in mind. Personally I think less is more; less taxes, less government regulation and mandates. They need to stay out of the private sector. Putting Obama in office will help Mississippi how? Lets see more regulation, socialized medicine, more hand out programs, more taxes. All this computes to more spending plan and simple. To top things off if he is elected we will have another 9/11 on our hands a lot sooner than you think.
I'll be the first to say Mississippi needs help. We need more jobs and better educated people. The schools here in Natchez are horrible but do you really think it's the schools and teachers fault, I don't. Look at the want to be thugs that go there. Future convicts and welfare recipients. They aren't there for an education. Someone needs to call Philip and get his opinion on this after all it's his baby. Crap goes in and crap comes out, plan and simple. This isn't the GOP or Democrats fault it's ours. This didn't happen overnight. Someone mentioned decades, well who elected them.
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hippie you must have found an old stash and smoked it this morning. That video is a joke. Surely you can do better than that. When your searching youtude find one on Bill Ayers or Rev. Wright. Maybe Michelle Obama, there's some interesting things on her as well.
There's no doubt he has a temper but also has passion. He has gone against his party with his beliefs many times while Obama never challenged anyone within his party.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm sure you are right MSviaTN, but that Lady was a Sister to a POW/MIA and John McCain is constantly taking advantage of the fact that he was a POW,( along with 600 other guys you never hear about), for the advancement of his Political Career. Why on earth would a MAN in his RIGHT MIND Hit a WOMAN in the first place, and especially a family member of a fellow VET.?? Personally I have ZERO respect for any MAN that hits a Woman and I don't give a Rats "A" how many Purple Hearts he has............
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Whatever helps you all sleep at night...the dems need to bow up and take responsibility for their role in this debacle. I can admit that it was a bipartisan screw up, why can't you?
Did you know that Barney Franks boytoy was an executive of Fannie Mae while Franks headed up the Banking Committee.
Southside, did you read the part about Obama being the head of Project Vote?
The democrats have NO MORAL VALUES!!!
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You don't know if he hit a woman - you can't believe everything you see on youtube - especially those with an agenda - come on - be smarter than that.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Fuzzymonkey, there is a vast differince in "Passion" and uncontrolable "ANGER".
I am aware of McCain's record,( his entire record), he has Voted 91.5% With George Bush. Obama hasen't been in the Political Game as long as McCain, he is fresh and NEW and that is what AMERICA is looking for and he is going to be your new President and the sooner you learn to accept that fact, the easier it will be for you, LOL..........
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Personally I think less is more; less taxes, less government regulation and mandates. They need to stay out of the private sector."
[with a Dem] "Lets see more regulation, socialized medicine, more hand out programs, more taxes. All this computes to more spending plain and simple."
The GOP in Miss. has done all the above for decades in Miss. The GOP ran Congress and the White House and did it.
But somehow Obama is the bad guy? What? Obama hasn't been the tax and spender and regulator in Miss. The GOP has! They have been the ones with NO ideas. The GOP has kept Miss at the bottom of state rankings.
Yet you blame Obama??
You can't blame Obama for doing what the GOP has done here in Miss and at the Fed level!!
You want to vote for McCain but he is part of the problems you cite! What kind of logic is that????
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well we all know who has what agenda here don't we. I'm not trying to convience you, because your Vote won't count. Obama already has enough Electorial College Votes to win the Election, so all of this a lot to do about nothing, kinda like our MONEY,HUH...............
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Happy:
McCain walks out on an ailing wife and his children to take up with a rich younger woman and you want to talk morals??
Palin's teenage daughter is knocked up because her parents are to self-involved to stay home and supervise their child and you want to talk morals?
McCain was a member of an antisemetic organization and you want to talk morals?
The GOP has run Mississippi into the ground and you want to talk morals?
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well MSviaTN, a few of the folks on here believe that youtube is the gospel...
southside...Obama is also part of the problem, a big part in fact. McCain at least tried to put a bill together to pull in Fannie and Freddie's reigns while Obama sat around with his thumb up his butt doing his normal business...NOTHING!
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is his wife how does he discount this. I guess he doesn't know her or her views either. Un-American wife, crazy white hating preacher and militant friends. Birds of a feather flock together.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
happy: so what if Frank knows someone at Fannie Mae? How desperate can you be??
There are a couple thousand people working on the campus of Fannie Mae. Most DC people know someone there. BFD.
Hell, I'll bet there are Muslims working at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Who cares about Project Vote? No one! NO. ONE.
We care about the economy. Afghanistan. Palestine and Israel. Gasoline and Oil. Hurricane recovery.
Not some stupid 5 second sound bite.
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is his wife how does he discount this. I guess he doesn't know her or her views either. Un-American wife, crazy white hating preacher and militant friends. Birds of a feather flock together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sl2QifoS...
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
PLEASE I am referring to political morals, you dems are ridiculous. You don't know the situation surrounding his ex-wife other than what the liberal media has reported, and teenage pregnancy happens on a daily basis...give me a break.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Happy: BS. Obama didn't grandstand and "suspend" his campaign. He worked behind the scenes without trying to grandstand. McCain spent his time at his campaign headquarters--NOT on the Hill working.
Get your facts straight.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So when a Governor who mandates abstinance only education in public school's own child gets knocked up, we are suppose to just ignore it?
HYPOCRISY!!!!!!!!!
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh--so you want moral LOOPHOLES!!
Typical GOPers. Lots and lots of LOOPHOLES!
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh and for polical morals--you mean the morals that got McCain mixed up with Charles Keating and the Keating 5 and the savings and loan fiasco that Keating's bank cost the taxpayers $4 billion? Oh THOSE morals.
Yeah. Keep digging the GOP grave.
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
discount this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dZDtOAIl...
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Frank doesn't just know him, they lived together (in the biblical sense) from 90-98. He was a Fannie Mae executive at the forefront of the agency’s push to relax lending restrictions.
I care about Project Vote because they are illegally registering DEMOCRATS because they are on Obama's payroll. How can we possibly have a fair election?? I hope they arrest every one of them.
If you truly cared about the economy, you wouldn't be voting to become a Socialist nation!
If you truly cared about Oil, you'd be pro drilling.
If you truly cared about Israel, you'd be voting for McCain.
Afganistan...ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Obama is going to demilitarize our country, leaving IRAN wide open to blow Israel off the planet. Also, Iran's test shots have been straight up into space, they can easily wipe out everything electronic by sending a nuke into space. But not to fear, I'm sure the messiah can go over and talk sweet to him and he'll play nice.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
..and Happy, as I have told you a billion times--i am not a Democrat or a liberal.
I am an Independent Moderate.
The GOP ignoring us Ind. Mods. and governing only for the radical right is the reason they will lose this election.
Independent Moderates. There aren't many in Mississippi. That is why Mississippi is in the hole it has been in for decades.
Let's not make the rest of the US like Mississippi .
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southside, McCain was acquitted because he did nothing wrong in the Keating 5 scandal.
Sex ed is not going to stop any teenege kid from having sex! STUPIDITY!!!!
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southside, McCain is a moderate as they come...so why are you swinging so far left???
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Proper parently and parental supervision will keep a child from getting knocked up! So will condoms and the pill--but they don't fall under Palin's Abstinance ONly education!
The Keating 5 scandal hangs around his neck. He scraped by by the skin of his teeth. He even apologised for his actions.
You don't apologise when you aren't guilty of something.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am SO not far left. SOOOOooo not.
McCain is NOT a moderate. Cutting medicare coverage is not a moderate policy. Cutting $1.3 trillion from medicare is a far right idea.
Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
He's a liar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPTl4s_xI...
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well good luck with that, if Obama is elected, there will be an even further loss of jobs, resulting in a huge increase and drain to the welfare system, and as we all know, welfare pays folks to have babies...and the babies daddy's won't work because the child support is garnished from their pay. It's a neverending cycle.
I learned sex ed in school and a lot of my classmates got pregnant, it will happen!
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry honey, but if you are voting for Obama you are SOOOOO left, he is as liberal as they come!
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You mean more than the 400,000 we've lost so far this year?
Job loses will be an outfall of the disasterous economy we are in NOW and have been for 2 years--NOT because Obama takes office in January.
You would be wise to remember that.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Again--labeling anyone who doesn't agree with the GOP a liberal, and ignoring our positions, is what will cost the GOP this election.
You can't win with only the far right base. You need us in the middle. This election will prove it.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Take a hard look at his corporate tax policy. Take a hard look at his plans to increase the capital gains tax. Better yet, go take an economics course.
If the federal government would stay out of it, we'd be in much better shape.
Increasing corporate taxes will eliminate jobs...if you disagree with that statement, you're crazy. Increasing the capital gains tax will reduce investment...well golly that will just destroy the market won't it now.
If the government would suspend the capital gains tax, eliminate corporate taxes, and remove the mark to market provision, the economy would fix itself!
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchezsouthside, I'll respond to your post point by point:
1. My reference to CNN was about "fact checking," not polling.
2. You're correct that the GOP did control Congress when Clinton signed the deregulation bill. But I could have sworn the President has the power to veto legislation. Hm. Not to mention, as I stated in my first post, Joe Biden voted for the bill along with numerous other Dems. You remember Joe Biden right? He's the guy who said Obama wasn't experienced enough to be President during one of the primary debates and also stated that Obama's support of the funding cuts to the military would cost American lives. Am I ringing any bells? Oh, yeah, and he's also Obama's running mate.
3. As to the Palin stuff, that idiocy isn't worthy of response. You should spend less time reading liberal blogs.
4. So you think you'll get a bigger tax cut from Obama. I wonder if it'll be as big as the middle class tax cut that we all got from Clinton? Wait a minute. Clinton promised a middle class tax cut when he was running for President, but instead raised middle class taxes when he was elected. How strange, a Democrat candidate lying about tax cuts. Maybe you should look at Obama's record concerning tax cuts before you start buying into his campaign rhetoric. Just a thought.
5. Obama's healthcare plan is a government mandated plan. Period. To get an idea of how well those government plans work take a look at Canada and Great Britain. Not a pretty picture.
6. Do you remember the Welfare Reform bill from back in the 90's. That was a Republican bill. Plus, as I'll explain again for the tenth time, just because a party has a majority in Congress doesn't mean they can do whatever they want. If they don't have a fillibuster proof majority, practically everything they propose can be blocked. For example, the legislation that McCain co-authored to prevent the financial meltdown we're seeing today was blocked by the Democrat's even though the Republicans controlled Congress.
7. The top 25% of wage earners pay 86% of all income taxes. The top 1% pay 39% of income taxes. The bottom 50% account for just 3%, and that is misleading because nearly 40% of the 50 don't pay any tax at all, instead receiving money from the government in one form or other. But what you and every other idiot liberal don't seem to be able to grasp is that government spending is the problem, not taxation. This mentality that people who are successful should be punished through higher taxation is counterproductive and, at a time like this, stupid. At any time actually.
-Oldhippie, I didn't realize that when Ayers bombed the Congress and Pentagon he was just exercising his right to free speech. I guess that's all the 9/11 terrrorists were doing as well, huh?
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sure, cut all those taxes. Yes. I agree.
But with $10 trillion in debt, what will we use to pay that off? How long before China stops buying our debt?
Cut spending you say? Sure. Hack back what? Social Security? Medicare? Defense? Highways? FAA? FDA? NIH?
Pick any combination of letters. Taxes fund our goverment. Where are you going to get $10 trillion to pay off the debt--to say nothing of just paying to RUN the govt???
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southernbelle,
After hearing the claims, I shared your concern about Barack Obama's patriotism and christianity.
I trust my judgement. I read, watched, listened, looked at his wife, looked at his children, listened to Rev. Wright's entire sermon, looked at the person William Ayers is today.
Didn't find anything to support the claims.
I trust ex-President Jimmy Carter, Senator Biden and Senator Kennedy enough to believe they would not support a muslim for U.S. president.
I trust John McCain's judgement enough to believe that he would take his case to the U.S. Congress House Committee on Unamerican Activities or to Homeland Security if he truly believes Senator Obama is a muslim.
I
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchezsouthside, so we've had a bad economy for the last two years. Hm, I seem to recall that some election occurred in 2006 (that's 2 years ago, I didn't want you to get a headache doing the math) in which the Dems took over both houses of Congress. Purely a coincidence, I'm sure.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
2. Was bi-partisan agreement--NOT just Clinton. Bi-PARTISAN
3. It's fact.
5. If you have private health insurance, Obama's plan doesn't touch you. It mandates coverage for children and protect those with pre-existing conditions who cannot get private health insurance. it is NOT socialized medicine.
6. I know how DC works--spare me the lecture. So then don't blame Dems for having to work in the same system that you use to defend the GOP
7. A regressive tax hits the poor harder because it affects the fewer dollars in the poor's pocket.
8. Sure govt spending is the problem--that would be the GOP mega-spending that Bush NEVER vetoed for 6 years????
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
don't be simplistic kmbjd
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southernwoman: You are a liar. A bold faced liar. You know Obama is not a muslim. He has said he is a christian. You are nothing but a liar.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Why is a muslim president so bad? e have muslims in Congress. We have muslims in the military. We have 1000s of muslims working all over our federal government. We have 100,000s of muslims living in the USA.
So why would a muslim be a bad president?
The US Constitution doesn't give us freedom of religion--except Islam.
Sad that people have such bigotry.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
happybunny
Whatever helps you all sleep at night...the dems need to bow up and take responsibility for their role in this debacle. I can admit that it was a bipartisan screw up, why can't you?<<<<<<<<< Well because from 2000 to 2006 the Republicans had TOTAL CONTROLE of the Presidency, the Congress and The Senate,( Not to mention the Supreme Court). In 2006 the Democrats won both Houses of Congress BUT, by only ONE VOTE in the Senate, where it takes 60 Votes to get anything done that the other side dosen't want done and you can look at the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD and it will show you all of the things that the Democrats tryed to do, only to be blocked by the republicans. Does that explain it for you??>>>>>>>>
Did you know that Barney Franks boytoy was an executive of Fannie Mae while Franks headed up the Banking Committee. <<<<<<< NO, I confess that I didn't know that Barnet Franks even had a "BOY TOY". I did however, know that JOHN MC CAIN'S Campaign MANAGER was a Lobbyist for Fanny and Freddy. McCain said that he hadn't been associated with them in over a year, then it was discovered that his Firm had recieved a $15,000. Check from them the previous Month.>>>>>>>>>>>
Southside, did you read the part about Obama being the head of Project Vote?
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes southside, it was a bipartisan bill, as I pointed out. My point was, the deregulation that the Dems want to blame on the problems we're having today didn't come from Bush. And didn't cause the problems we're having today. The root of this problem lie with Fannie and Freddie, who the Dems have protected and promoted, even when Greenspan and the Repubs warned that exactly what is happening now was going to happen. Government intervention in the private markets pushed by the Dems. And now disaster. The Palin claim has been completely discredited. Your points in 6 and 7 don't even make sense. For one, we have a progressive tax system, not regressive. And you'll get no argument from me about spending under Bush. I couldn't agree more. But the fact of the matter is, McCain is the only one who is addressing spending. How do we pay for govt? Do you realize that if we kept spending at its current level or just adjusted outlays at the rate of inflation, we could balance the Federal budget in just a few short years? What most people don't understand is that, when the Dems talk about Republicans wanting to cut this or that, they're not talking about cuts at all. What happens is, for example, the Dems will propose a 15% increase in some agencies budget, say Medicare, and the Repubs will say lets keep it to a 7% increase, and then the Dems call it a cut. Only the Dems can call an increase a cut. Unbelievable. Rhetorical nonsense, the left's lifeblood. McCain's not proposing any tax cut for the so-called rich. He's talking about keeping rates where they are right now. But regardless, this may come as a suprise to you since you obviously have no real knowledge of history, but when we cut taxes, revenues to the government increase because of increased economic activity. It works every time. With healthcare, I will reiterate: Government intervention is what caused the problems and Obama's plan is govt intervention.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
natchezsouthside (
southernwoman: You are a liar. A bold faced liar. You know Obama is not a muslim. He has said he is a christian. You are nothing but a liar.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<N.S.S. Southern woman is on our side. I think you need to go back and re-read that post,( From the Biginning) and I am sure you will feel perhaps an apology would be in order,( We all make mistakes).......>>>>>>>>>>
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That just goes to show that southside can read but comprehending what is being read is another story :-)
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmbjd40 ( McCain is the only one who is addressing spending. How do we pay for govt?
<<<<<<<<<<<<< REALLY???? Then who was that little bald headed white Guy out there on Stage last night telling the American People that he was going to give them everything that Obama was, but MORE and HE WASN"T GOING TO RAISE ANY ONE"S TAXES???????? AM I just a cynic or does that smell like BUL*-S*IT to you to??
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MSviaTN
That just goes to show that southside can read but comprehending what is being read is another story :-)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<To be fair, S.Side was in the heat of battle and got a little excited, LOL,(Been there and done that), thats why I read and then re-read, now, LOL.........>>>>>>>>>..
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_a...
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hippie, apparently I was watching a different debate. McCain said "he was going to give them everything that Obama was, but more?" Please outline for me all the things that the two of them are giving to us because I must have missed that part.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Amen kmb, notice they do not respond to things that make sense, they just regress back to the party line.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok, so I admit to being wrong in some of my previous comments when I wrote that John McCain has 10 near million dollar home...lol...let me clear that up, some of them cost closer to 3 million.
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/49248-mcca...
Have a look inside one of McCain's homes that FYI is for sale if you can afford the purchase.
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/49722-step...
Many doctors say McCain should release his medical records to the public. If McCain should be elected and pass away while in office, Palin would become the next president. http://therealmccain.com/doctors/
http://therealmccain.com/blog/
Looks like we’re not the only ones concerned about McCain’s health records being released. On The Beltway Boys, FOX’s Mort Kondracke conveyed his apprehension regarding the possible recurrence of McCain’s melanoma. Kondracke told Fred Barnes that he wouldn’t be satisfied if someone as unqualified as Sarah Palin had to take over because McCain’s cancer had returned, and he said the American people shouldn’t be either.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What does McCain's houses have to do with anything? Why is the left so obsessed with the success of others. Except Democrats, of course. John Kerry is after all the richest Senator. And McCain has released his medical records.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
McCain looks like a fool standing next to Obama.
Nasty old man who talks in riddles and insults others.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmb, they are not voting based on the actual issues, don't be silly.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Get Breaking News Alerts
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Share Print CommentsIn an interview with the right-wing magazine Newsmax yesterday, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) called Sen. Barack Obama's worldview "naive." Asked if Obama had "the right stuff to bomb Iran if it came to that level," Lieberman replied, "I worry about that":
<<<<<<<<< Thank goodness for a rational Candidate for President. Happybunny, You will notice that this quote came from the Same "RIGHT WING RAG" you you apparently read.............>>>>>>>>>
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
if I misunderstood southernwoman my apologies.
As for kmb: look, the poll numbers and the comments from even rightwingers in support of Obama make it clear that the wheels are off the McCain bus.
You have twisted logic in your comments above. You blame Dems for the legislative process but excuse the GOP, when they are both working in the same processes. Typical.
You also say if we hold spending we will balance the budget...maybe that is true. But what about the $10 trillion in debt? Without cutting you cannot make serious inroads on the debt. That requires both sides, but you just want to blame the Dems.
Oh, and somehow, in your twisted logic it's OK when GOPers say not voting to make permanent tax cuts is a vote for raising taxes.
Greenspan said he doesn't support tax cuts paid for with more gov't borrowing. Well that is what we have had for 8 years and what we cannot afford for 4 more years.
Finally, we have a regressive tax structure. The impact of taxes is harsher on the poor than they are on the rich.
10% of 15,000 is harsher and 27% of 100,000--and then add in deductions that the poor cannot take. It's regressive.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can understand the dummies of the GOP reflex voters supporting McCain for a while -- if they ignore Bush records then you gotta figure they are thick-skulled.
But time after time Obama has more on the ball than McCain, the VP's don't have a contest either.
And all the lies the TV truth squads hang McCain and Palin for but only rarely hang anything like that on Obama -- folks who are still with McCain look dumber and dumber the longer it goes on.
What's amazing is that the misinformation has been explained to these dummies on the ND board -- but they still repeat the same questions as if another day means they have to rethink everything.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I just finished watching the REPUBLICAN TREASURY SECRETARY say they were going to use Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac to buy up the "BAD PAPER" out there to try to straighten up the Economy. NOW, I keep hearing the REPUBLICANS here and their Presidental Candidate Ragging on FREDDY and FANNYas the "VILLAN" that is to blame for the whole mess. Am I the only one confused here???
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Please huhuh, supply us with specifics, I am interested in hearing them.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes hippie you are confused. Everyone is blaming the Fannie and Freddie's former executives for doing Clinton's bidding in the name of socialist supremacy. They didn't stand alone, and your messiah stood by and held out his hand as McCain co-authored a bill that would have prevented this mess.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The GOP had YEARS to make all sorts of changes to the federal government. Things that would have made the whole country better. But they played politics over and over. No compromise. No bipartisanship. Their way or the highway. Hell the GOP shut down the US government rather than govern WITH the Dems.
This same GOP mismanagement is alive and thriving here in Mississippi. This state is a wreck! 49th or 50th in ranking after rankin. Why? GOP mismanagement. They refuse to compromise so they run this state into the ground.
With decades of control in Jackson, where is all the hallowed smaller government, less social welfare, and less taxes in Mississippi? Where is government efficiency? Where are all the fabulous government projects that move Mississippi to 45th? 30th? 15th place, and out of 50 place?
How any Mississippian can say the GOP is the answer, and at the same time be proud of the utter wreck this state is in after decades of GOP rule defies any logic. There can be NO logic in supporting the GOP when you look at the train wreck that is Mississippi.
This state has been run by gross GOP incompetence.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"McCain co-authored a bill that would have prevented this mess."
A bill that even his own GOP colleagues wouldn't support. Some bill, eh? Funny, GOPers don't support it and yet it is all the Dems fault.
Of course to people with blinders on the GOP is faultless.
Right happy?
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southside, like it or not, local governement is to blame for the most part. We lost our industry at the hands of the local government, not on the federal or state level.
Mississippi has always been at the bottom along with most of the true Southern states. It must be in the water...
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Again, I fault both parties, it was a bipartisan screw up. Why can't you admit that?
At least he had the foresight to see the trainwreck that was coming! Obama just stood there with his hand out and voted it down with the rest of them.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
from conservative blogger Andrew Sullivan:
Palin's Sheriff
Did the cop berating Barack Hussein Obama in uniform for the Palin mob violate the Hatch Act? The feds are investigating, as they should.
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchezsouthside - you keep bringing up how MS is in 50th place - one of the main reasons they stay in 50th place is because there are so many people with your mentality that live there!! It is not just the government that makes it be in the 50th place - it is a whole host of factors - i.e., crime rate, education level, babies born to single mothers and the list goes on and on. Of the 3 I mentioned, that is NOT something the government controls - quit blaming the government for everything!
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can certainly admit it. I totally believe that both sides are to blame for a lot of governmental ills. Too much time is spent screwing around rather than governing.
But then you say, "Obama just stood there with his hand out and voted it down with the rest of them."
So you still want to blame Obama for what all the others thought was a bad idea too. As if Obama was supposed to be some Seer of the East and know what the Wall St mess was going to do. You can't point a greater finger at him when no one else disagreed with him but McCain.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Again, I fault both parties, it was a bipartisan screw up. Why can't you admit that?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I already answered this in detail and you ignored it. When you get a NEW TALKING POINT come back to see us>>>>>>>>>>>>
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I will when you will MS.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well apparently McCain was the Seer of the East because he predicted exactly what happened and vocalized it when presenting the bill.
That is my point, he has the knowledge to foresee things like this, Obama does not.
Posted by southernwoman (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Why is a muslim president so bad? e have muslims in Congress. We have muslims in the military. We have 1000s of muslims working all over our federal government. We have 100,000s of muslims living in the USA.
So why would a muslim be a bad president?
The US Constitution doesn't give us freedom of religion--except Islam.
Sad that people have such bigotry.
NatchezSouthSide:
I apologize for offending you.
I respect you for speaking out.
I am not a bigot, but I wasn't clear in my original post.
I believe strongly in freedom of religion and in the freedom to vote for whomever we want.
I am a Christian and, all things being equal, I prefer voting for candidates who best SHOW me their belief in core Christian values which are sometimes the same as other religions' core values.
I was trying to say, based on the reasons in my original post, I do NOT believe the inferences by the McCain campaign that Senator Obama is a muslim terrorist or muslim terrorist sympathizer.
Again, I aplogize for the wording in the original post.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Southside, we have a progressive tax system. Maybe in whatever fantasy world you live in there's a regressive system, but here in the real world it's a progressive system.
-Concerning the budget, if we held the line on spending we would eventually start to run a surplus and would then be able to pay down the debt.
-"You blame the Dems for the legislative process but excuse the GOP, when they are both working in the same processes." What does that even mean?
-And I didn't mention making Bush's tax cuts permanent. But since you mention it, if a person doesn't vote to make the tax cuts permanent, then that person is allowing the tax rates to increase, thereby "raising taxes."
-Yeahuhuh, will the personal attacks ever cease? Why is it that libs feel the need to personally attack those who disagree with them and not address the persons arguments? Instead, were dumb. FYI, my IQ happens to be 152, I have four college degrees, and I work in a profession where people's lives are quite literally in my hands everyday. So can we just stick to the issues please?
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
apologies to you too. i misread what you wrote.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
-And I didn't mention making Bush's tax cuts permanent. But since you mention it, if a person doesn't vote to make the tax cuts permanent, then that person is allowing the tax rates to increase, thereby "raising taxes."
UGH!! You are incredible! Just incredible. Twisted absurd logic!!
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well - when I lived in MS - I DID DO SOMETHING!!!! I never received a welfare check - I got an education - I never committed a crime - I did NOT have a child out of wed lock - so I guess I DID my part to try to get that # up - too bad there are not more in Mississippi that will do the same - there are too many people in MS that won't get off of it and DO something to change - just blame the govrnment - that's easier!
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MSviaTN...I agree with you except that it is the fault of the government to some degree. Why work when you can collect welfare and if you don't need to work, why bother with education, and you get more welfare by having more babies.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A regressive tax is a tax imposed in such a manner that the tax rate decreases as the amount subject to taxation increases.
In simple terms, it imposes a greater burden (relative to resources) on the poor than on the rich.
Regressive taxes attempt to reduce the tax incidence of people with higher ability-to-pay, as they shift the incidence disproportionately to those with lower ability-to-pay.
The opposite of a regressive tax is a progressive tax, where the tax rate increases as the amount subject to taxation increases.
Hence, the US has a regressive tax structure.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
But then you say, "Obama just stood there with his hand out and voted it down with the rest of them."
So you still want to blame Obama for what all the others thought was a bad idea too. As if Obama was supposed to be some Seer of the East and know what the Wall St mess was going to do. You can't point a greater finger at him when no one else disagreed with him but McCain.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Actually she also fails to admit that it has been proven that Senator Obama did Write a Letter to the Treasury Secretary and the Chairman of the Federal Reserve two years ago warning them of exactly what is hapening today and his Leters was ignored, just as the ones warning the Pentagon about Foreigners taking flight lessons but no lessons on take offs or Landings, prior to 9/11. No one can tell this adminestration anything, they have to be slaped up side the Head with it and you people want FOUR MORE YEARS???????
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You are right happybunny - like I said - that mentality is what is putting MS on the bottom of the list.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MS, every other state has people that fit your definition of the problem. Yet Mississippi is last.
At some point you have to look at the governance structure as the problem.
Why does the GOP led govt of Mississippi continue to operate in such a way that it allows the state to remain in last place?
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Southside, do you honestly not see how not acting to prevent something from happening is the same as doing it? So I guess all the people in prison who were convicted of murder, even though they didn't directly participate but knew the murder was going to occur and did nothing to stop it, should be set free.
Posted by MSviaTN (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes - every state has people that fit that definition - but obviously Mississippi has more thus on the bottom of the list - the government could change it but could you imagine the outcry of Mississippians if they alone tried to put more regulations on welfare?? Don't get me wrong - I believe welfare is a good and needed thing but it should NOT be intended as a career!!!
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"do you honestly not see how not acting to prevent something from happening is the same as doing it?"
So then by your logic, you are guilty of raising taxes too?
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MS: The GOP has run MS for decades. In all that time they couldn't have come up with solutions?
And we are not talking just last in welfare stats (or near first in this case). We are talking statistic after statistic; ranking after ranking.
Come on!
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm not an elected official, I have no control over taxes. I assume you meant something else by your comment, but you'll need to clarify it.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmbjd -- sorry if the criticism hurts your feelings. Maybe you can relate to what it feels like listening to folks in the Deep South talk about liberals -- or anyone who talks against the GOP. To this day it is suicide talking white Democratic politics in this town, face to face. No, we won't shut up on here.
It is our turn to be incredulous -- and the inability for the "right" side to take the responsibility they deserve is a legitimate issue.
Have you been on here seeing what the happybunnys and the Yomamas come up with as arguments?? When people use bogus points and the tactics your allies on here use -- then their character and their intellect is a legitimate issue. I admit you are the most erudite of the conservative posters right now -- the rest seem just to use tricks and persistence to try and win arguments.
Dumb is not always lacking IQ. It can come from emotional problems, or ideological prejudices. Sheepskin does not immunize. your allies can get you shot down. Sorry, but we lost our sense of humor a long time ago and you should have spoken up more back then keeping your own guys in Washington in check.
This is the End of Reagnomics. It has come full circle to another banking crisis. We have exhausted the treasury trying to get the patient to breathe. Somebody now has to pay the bills. McCain has no credibility. Palin is a joke. Palin as Commander in Chief is enough by itself to claim everyone who would vote Republican is an idiot. You can't ignore those matters and pretend some other ideological issues matter.
What you are seeing is democracy working.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"do you honestly not see how not acting to prevent something from happening is the same as doing it?"
Sweetie, this is a representational government, but you don't get to sit back passively. You have a say in how your government votes and you have to personally get involved to make it function. This is Civics 101. Perhaps you took that???
Ergo, if you did nothing proactively to make the taxes go down, as you accuse the Demos of doing, then you too are guilty of increasing them.
Duh.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeahuhuh, number one, you didn't hurt my feelings. Number two, I didn't tell you to shut up, just stick to the issues. You don't help yourself by personally attacking people. You have much more credibility when you lay out your case on a factual basis, minus the hyperbole and personal attacks. As to people who share my viewpoint on here, you accuse them of the same types of things you and your ilk are guilty of. I mean, have you read any of oldhippie's posts? He's certainly not helping your case. The end of Reaganomics? You better pray for the country's sake that that isn't the case.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Reaganomics--you mean what Bush Sr. called "Voodoo Economics"?
Yeah, put a fork in that fiasco. It's done.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This is conservative fiscal policy?????? This is Republican conservative government????
Sounds like socialism to me! Is McCain now becoming a socialist?
"Senator McCain announced a plan last night for the Treasury to directly purchase home loans from borrowers and servicers at full price and then give the borrowers cheaper fixed-rate FHA backed loans at lower principal values; in other words, give people their overpriced homes for free."
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A "representational government?" I assume you meant a representative republic. Other than voting for the candidates that most closely reflect my political views, which is what I do, I really don't understand what you mean by doing something "proactively" to make taxes go down, other than writing or calling your representatives to express your views. What you seem to be saying, at least in my view, is that if my representatives vote against a tax increase but taxes go up anyway, I'm somehow responsible for the tax increase. Yeahuhuh, remember what I said about oldhippies posts and how he's not helping your case? I'd like to add natchezsouthside to that list.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hey kmb, it's your logic, not mine. I am merely following the logic you presented.
Oh, and about that regressive tax thing... hmmmmm.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I really have tryed to avoid the local social issue's, but since so many who have no idea what they are talking about, ar talking about it, I fear I must.
The Fact is that the State of Mississippi and to a lessor degree Louisiana have gone into the Penitentiary Business. The RED NECKS are lined up for those GOOD PENITENTIARY JOBS ! I don't understand the Revinue stream end of the Business,but I do understand POVERTY. So let me educate you fortunate ones about poverty. First,( before you start) no, I have never been on Welfare,BUT, I have been qualified, I just had too much pride bread into me and eventually got work again. So I can tell you that Welfare is a hell of a Career and you better pray that you never end up there. I read the other day, people talking about the School System and they were argueing about people from Natchez Shiping their Children across the River to vIDALIA TO ATTEND sCHOOL, BECAUSE THEY SAID THAT THE sCHOOLS IN nATCHEZ WERE INFERIOR AND DANGERIOUS,( sorry caps). Thats where it starts, Black kids, raised up in poverty feel as if they have one shot at the "BRASS RING" and that is SPORTS,B.Ball, or Foot Ball. If they don't make one of those "TEAMS" they tend to join any "TEAM" that will have them,( You guessed it) "GANGS". Now you have your CANNON FODDER" for your PENITENTIARY'S, its just a matter of time. Thats the Boys, the Girls have a different problem, The Schools aren't allowed to teach them any Sex Education and what they get at home is certainly not in their best interest, so they usually end up Pregnant by the time they are thirteen or fourteen and then they are traped in the System. They have to go on Welfare because they don't have any Money, they have never had any pride instilled into then, as I did, so they will never teach that to their children, because you can't teach what you never learned.
I don't know what the answer is,( or if there is one), but that is what the problem is and none of those people are living on the "FAT OF THE LAND", they're lives are pure "HELL ON EARTH".
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
oldhippie: i am a moderate and thus come down in the middle of your point.
Personal responsibility is key. Lots of people grow up poor but achieve. If you abide by the notion that learning "is a white thing" then yup, theres a gang waiting for you.
But if we as a society say, yes, we will give you welfare, food stamps, public housing for a few years (5 years max???) so you can get on your feet, then we as a society have to also say when the 5 years are up. Sorry, the gravey train is over.
Too many Dems count on the poor for their votes. Too many GOPs count on those poor to to feel left out and not vote. (Hence impoverished majority black Miss. remains a GOP run state.)
Then there are the too many "religious" folks prey on them for their own greedy needs.
There is actually no political or societal will to end social welfare since both the Ds and the Rs et al benefit from the status quo.
That is my point in raising the GOP's inaction in Mississppi. They don't fix it becasue they don't want to fix it.
And the poor are played generation after generation.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I disagree with oldhippie on occasion, and others, kmb. And I do not write like he does. I also take my lumps for agreeing with his condemnation of the GOP. Actually character assasination by association as a political tool is alive and well in the GOP.
I think it is pretense that voting happens on a logical basis with the fair sharing of facts and policy thrusts. You don't get reality considerations from a country of people who want to attack Iraq or Iran but can't point to either on a globe.
McCain's claims from the convention down are between wrong, evasive and insane. Why would these folks here be bound to issues while the campaign issues misinformation regularly?
Reaganomics is dead. Watch the funeral. Reaganomics always depended on deficit spending to even spark life in the process. Free market influences are still a factor in managing economies -- but the thought that a safe knee-jerk policy is to do whatever the free-market crowd says is ok is bogus -- we haven't been free market in my memory and won't be. But you get legions of stooges preaching free-market for the GOP because they don't think any deeper than that.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So how are the Democrats going to fix it? They continue to give hand outs and not hold people accountable.
It is obvious that I am voting for McCain, but I was a little pissed off when he mentioned buying the defaulted loans and refinancing them at the depreciated value.
I wish ONE of the people running for President would mention rewarding the ones who pay their mortgages and are not defaulting on anything.
I wish that would be addressed...instead of helping out idiots who tried to live outside their means and caused this housing disaster that led to the current economic state.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
notfrom: from my earlier post--No one will fix it. There is no gain for politicians if they fix it.
****************************
Too many Dems count on the poor for their votes. Too many GOPs count on those poor to to feel left out and not vote. (Hence impoverished majority black Miss. remains a GOP run state.)
Then there are the many "religious" folks who prey on them for their own greed.
There is actually no political or societal will to end social welfare since both the Ds and the Rs et al benefit from the status quo.
That is my point in raising the GOP's inaction in Mississppi. They don't fix it becasue they don't want to fix it.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's another point.
Education is THE key to success. With a brain you can provide for yourself.
Public education sucks in Miss. But look at public ed--it is FAT--BIG FAT PIG, FAT--bloated with administration.
Have you ever seen any public school district that is bloated with teachers and short on admin?
Until the money goes to the class room rather than the admin education in Miss will continue to suck and students will continue to do poorly. (toss in lack of parental involvement too.)
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
...and finally: The prime reason why Miss cannot get industry and jobs (this is very clear in Natchez) here is the education system sucks and churns out idiots.
Vast numbers of children who do manage to get through the public school system are still functionally illiterate--to say nothing of lacking higher math skills and virtually no science aptitude.
Miss will NEVER improve its national standing without a ground up transformation of education.
There is no political will for that in Miss because an educated majority black population will not vote GOP. And the GOP knows it.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 4:20
I mean, have you read any of oldhippie's posts? He's certainly not helping your case.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
I don't know who the hell you are fellow, nor do I give a damn, but MY job here is to state MY case and I really could care less what you, or anyone else thinks about it. That seems to be a trait of you republicans, you act as if GOD left you all in charge of the World while he went to the Store. Well, just scratch me off of your little list, cause I don't play that sh*T. Us Democrats tend to agree on most things, but we are not "SCHOOL FISH" as you republicans are.
The bottom line is that there is nothing left to argue about, Obama already has enough Electoral Votes to win and he has a four point lead in Florida and also leading in Virginia that hasn't Voted Democrat since Clinton, so get used to being aq MINORITY son............
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I will go one step further...FINANCIAL EDUCATION is needed for all.
Most people do not have the understanding or quite frankly the desire to learn. They are happy suckling from the government teat.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
its a vicious cycle not from. people do what they know. people know what they do.
you need political will to change the people AND the process.
There is no political will. It doesn't benefit the political status quo.
People don't inherently do the right thing--not in politics--and as we have seen, not on Wall St.
Americans are all about self-interest. That's why we shoot first. Me me me me first.
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oldhippie, the phrase is actually, "I couldn't care less." And it's "loser," not "looser." You know, I didn't know the election was held today. You mean they moved it up and didn't tell anybody?
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This election is all over but for the shouting.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oldhippie---should I get used to being a minority too?
Oh wait...I already am. ;)
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchezsouthside, I agree with you about "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY",BUT that has to be "TAUGHT", we are not like Dogs where we just do certain things by instinct, these people have evolved through generations of welfare and as you say apparently no one cares enough to change it, they just want to Bit*h about it................
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Don't worry notfromnatchez, you know how us "Bleeding Heart" Liberals are, we try to lift everyone up. We aren't opposed to Millionairs, or even Billionairs, we just expect them to kick a little back down the hill and help us tote the load.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't need to be lifted...I like where I am.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
But what have you done to help lift up your neighbor.
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
One was the difference in the way we talk and the other a typo. I speak Construction Worker, not queens english. As for the election, just hide and watch, I'll be on here the fifth to remind you that the old hippie told you so........
Posted by kmbjd40 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
southside, I thought it was the governments job to lift up your neighbor.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hippie I am waiting for the blaming of the economic failure on Obama in 2009 even thought the whole mess started long before he got elected.
Just wait and watch. It will be a dazzling spectacular demonstration of memory loss of the GOP boondogles and accusations toward Obama that have absolutely no basis in fact. Somehow taking office on Jan 20 will mean he caused all the ills of the past.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 5:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmb: Did you think that? I am surprised. I thought you were rabid right winger. I had you pegged incorrectly.
Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 6:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
kmb: actually, I think children, the mentally and physically ill, the elderly, should be taken care of by government. We are a wealthy nation. We have more than we need. Why, do you not have compassion for those unable to see to their own basic needs?
I thought you held the life of people in your hands every day. Do you also tell them that you don't really give a damn about them?
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 6:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No doubt in my little millitary mind that you are absolutely correct southside. They are probably accumulating the material as we speak, getting all of their talking points lined out in preperation for the metamorphosis, LOL>>>>
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Wednesday that a $150 billion economic stimulus plan is needed now because of the faltering economy.
Pelosi said a stimulus package would create jobs by investing in public works, increasing food stamps benefits and extending unemployment insurance for the long-term jobless.
How is that going to help?
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 9:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Presidential candidate, John McCain was visiting a primary school and he visited one of the classes. They were in the middle of a discussion related to words and their meanings. The teacher asked the presidential candidate if he would like to lead the discussion on the word 'tragedy'. So our illustrious Republican presidential candidate asked the class for an example of a 'tragedy'.
One little boy stood up and offered: 'If my best friend, who lives on a farm, is playing in the field and a tractor runs over him and kills him that would be a tragedy.'' No,' said McCain, 'that would be an accident. 'A little girl raised her hand: 'If a school bus carrying 50 children drove over a cliff, killing everyone inside, that would be a tragedy.' 'I'm afraid not,' explained McCain. 'That's what we would call a great loss. 'The room went silent. No other children volunteered.
McCain searched the room. 'Isn't there someone here who can give me an example of a tragedy?' Finally at the back of the room, Little Johnny raised his hand. In a quiet voice he said: 'If the plane carrying you and Governor Palin was struck by a 'friendly fire' missile and blown to smithereens that would be a tragedy.' 'Fantastic!' exclaimed McCain. 'That's right. And can you tell me why that would be a tragedy?' 'Well,' says the boy, 'It has to be a tragedy, because it certainly wouldn't be a great loss... and it probably wouldn't be an accident either.'
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"You and I together will confront the ten trillion dollar debt that the federal government has run up and balance the federal budget by the end of my term in office," McCain began, making his way to pork barrel spending. "Across this country this is the agenda I have set before my fellow prisoners and the same standards of clarity and candor must now be applied to my opponent."
Presumably McCain meant to say 'Americans' not "prisoners," but he didn't catch his mistake and powered on to criticize Obama for avoiding the tough questions in this campaign.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Suggestion for new ethics reform in politics:
Whenever one decides to run for public office let him be fitted with a shock necklace which he will continue to wear as long as he is running and until he gives up his position should he win. Each time he tells an untruth, the necklace can shock the lies out of him. And until that can be written into the law have Obama and McCain hooked up to a lie detector on the next debate.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 8, 2008 at 10:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hippie :)
Posted by Thedamntruth (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 12:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
oldhippie01,
I love the joke!!! If Sara Palin miraculously survived, maybe the explosion would somehow fill her head with something....anything.....because right now a sack of sh** has more substance!!!
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 6:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The TRUTH on the "WAR HERO" "SUPPORT THE VETS" candidate.
http://www.votevets.org/video?id=0012
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 6:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Presumably McCain meant to say 'Americans' not "prisoners,"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You are right 4change, but he has to keep repeating his "POW" experience over and over in his head, in case he gets an opening to use it. Add to the fact that the man is 72 and Senile and its easy to see how he could think he was in a Prison Camp...........
Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 7:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And then there is this little fact.........
http://votevets.org/pages/?id=0012
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on October 9, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Still McCain/Palin 08' I think the debate was so boring I went to sleep . I also think both parties were told to keep themselves in check so much by their advisers we saw less of the real characters they really are and they didn't express their anger and frustration they must feel just like all of us do about the economy . It was the same old same old . That was a wasted debate and I don't trust polls to be completely accurate . I hope this last debate coming up will give the American people something more to look forward to . I also fear voters fraud big time in this election . I fear this easily because of