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Iraq wants all US troops gone by end of 2011
Published Thursday, October 30, 2008
BAGHDAD (AP) — Iraq wants to eliminate any chance U.S. forces will stay here after 2011 under a proposed security pact and to expand Iraqi legal jurisdiction over U.S. troops until then, a close ally of the prime minister said Thursday.
Those demands, which were presented to U.S. officials this week, could derail the deal — delivering a diplomatic blow to Washington in the final weeks of the Bush administration.
Failure to reach an agreement before year's end could force a suspension of American military operations, and U.S. commanders have been warning Iraqi officials that could endanger security improvements.
The current draft, hammered out in months of tortuous negotiations, would have U.S. soldiers leave Iraq by Dec. 31, 2011, unless the two governments agreed to an extension for training and supporting Iraqi security forces.
But Ali al-Adeeb, a member of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's inner circle, said the government wants that possibility excluded by language adding finality to the end of 2011 date.
"The Iraqi side wants to remove any mention of a possible extension of U.S. troops, fearing that the existing clause might be subject to misinterpretation or could bear different interpretation," he told The Associated Press.
Otherwise, he said the U.S. might demand an extension "depending on their evaluation" of the security situation and the state of readiness within Iraq's army and police. U.S. officials have privately suggested 2012 is too early for Iraqi forces to be truly ready to maintain order.
The draft also gives Iraqi courts limited jurisdiction over U.S. troops, allowing them to be prosecuted by Iraqis only if they are accused of major crimes committed off post and off duty.
Al-Adeeb said the Iraqis want to add a provision for a joint U.S.-Iraqi committee to decide whether U.S. soldiers accused of such crimes were really on authorized missions.
Planning Minister Ali Baban, a Sunni, added that the Iraqis want jurisdiction over all U.S. soldiers and contractors unless they are carrying out joint military operations approved by Iraqis — a subtle but significant change to the draft that U.S. authorities may find unacceptable.
Iraqi officials have said the changes must be made in the draft agreement before it can be approved by parliament in time for the Dec. 31 expiration of a U.N. Security Council mandate under which coalition troops operate in Iraq.
Without an agreement or a new U.N. mandate, the U.S. military would have to suspend all operations in Iraq after that.
"We are waiting for a response from the U.S. negotiators on how much they can accommodate," Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told CNN. "I think both sides here have reached the moment of truth. The time window is closing, and a decision has to be made as soon as possible."
But the Bush administration's hope to secure the deal while in office was fading with the new Iraqi demands, despite White House assurances that an agreement was still possible.
U.S. officials in Washington refused to discuss possible alternatives to securing a deal, saying they were still reviewing Iraq's proposed amendments that were received Wednesday.
But officials bristled at suggestions the negotiations could be reopened and said the U.S. was not yet considering asking the Security Council to extend the U.N. mandate.
"Once we have something to say on it, we will," State Department spokesman Robert Wood told reporters in Washington. "But for the moment, we're just taking our time in reviewing it to make sure that we've got a good sense of what it is the Iraqis have put forward."
Privately, however, U.S. officials were growing pessimistic about chances for a deal. Failure to seal a deal with Iraqi politicians who owe their position to the 2003 U.S.-led invasion would be a huge embarrassment to President Bush, whose administration was largely defined by the war.
In Baghdad, U.S. military officials have urged the Iraqis to consider what could happen here if the U.S. suspended military operations, warning that the security gains won by the blood of American and Iraqi soldiers would be at risk.
Violence is down sharply after the Sunni revolt against al-Qaida in Iraq and the routing of Shiite militias in Baghdad and southern Iraq last spring.
But U.S. and other coalition forces also provide considerable help to Iraqi ministries in infrastructure and quality of life projects that would have to stop — along with control of the airspace and protection of Iraq's oil export facilities in the Persian Gulf.
"There's really no area that we as a coalition ... operate in that is not governed by legal authority," the U.S. military spokesman, Brig. Gen. David Perkins, told reporters.
He said the American military presence enables other international organizations, including the United Nations, and private groups to do their jobs.
"These things are all interrelated," Perkins said. "You pull one pillar out, you seriously degrade the efforts of others."
Despite the drop in violence, attacks are continuing daily.
On Thursday, a car bomb exploded near a market in north Baghdad, killing one person and wounding five, police said.
The blast occurred about a half hour after a roadside bomb went off near a police patrol at an intersection in the Fudhailiya area of east Baghdad, wounding six people, including three policemen, officials said.
All spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not supposed to release the information to media.
Comments
Posted by harjedalen (anonymous) on October 30, 2008 at 4:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
'Welcomed as liberators' or 'kicked out as occupiers'?
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 30, 2008 at 9:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
First hand knowledge says LIBERATORS.
Posted by crackbaby (anonymous) on October 30, 2008 at 9:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The U.S. Military should just stay on base for a month or so. Let these "get out of Iraq" leaders do without our presence for a time. Then they can decide if we need to leave or not. If these leaders are still alive! Wouldn't that be a simple yet well founded plan?
Posted by harjedalen (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 4:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
FIrst hand knowledge says 'occupiers'. In fact, I was employed by Danish shipping company Maersk at the port of Al Zubair when the Iraqis kicked out Maersk. Read the story here. http://www.progressive.org/?q=mag_bacon1...
here is an excerpt,
"In nearby Zubair, the Danish shipping giant Maersk also took control of that port’s docks when the occupation began, a reward from Washington and London to Copenhagen for sending troops. Maersk removed the port’s skilled employees and replaced them with its own workforce. The new dock union challenged the company’s right to run the port this spring, and on March 2, 600 longshoremen, oil workers, and supporters descended on Zubair. They blocked its access road for three days, and in the end, Maersk, like Stevedoring Services of America and KBR, agreed to go."
I was there in 2005 as part of the illegal occupation of their port, they weren't happy about it, they kicked us out just like they are kicking us out now!!!
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 5:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Harjedalen--You were part of a shipping company?!?!?! Wow...well you definitely have more knowledge than someone who was carrying a weapon and getting shot at.
I have come the conclusion that you are in fact a moron.
How can you compare what you did to what I DO or what other brave military members do?
That an easy question to answer...YOU CAN'T COMPARE.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Give the Iraqi an early Christmas present and let them keep their old oil, bring the soldiers home now so that our American soldiers can enjoy Christmas at home with their families.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
notfromnatchez as much time as you spend on this message board right here, you must not be doing too much in the warzone, but I'm glad that you are a safe keyboard warrior and not being shot at like the other soldiers. You're certainly keeping up a good text war on here, but I don't know if that should win you any medals.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Bring them home now! Don't vote McCain, he will start another war with Iran as well as keep our soldiers in Iraq for a hundred or more years. Bring them home now!
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am not deployed at the moment...so yes i have time to be on here sometimes.
But I have been over there TWICE and i look forward to going back.
So don't you make any jokes about Text Wars...you don't have the faintest idea about War.
So shut your damn mouth you piece of crap.
Posted by harjedalen (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok notfrom, I won t compare my experience to yours but I was there at the port of Al Zubair Iraq, when the Iraqis blockaded it and forced Maersk out. It wasn t terrorists forcing us out, it was Iraqi longshoremen and oil workers and they were angry because a company from one of the coalition companies had been given the contract to operate the port by USA, which had no authority to grant it.
Maersk had fired all of the former workers because they were Baathists and brought in their own people.
I spoke with many of the protesting Iraqis and while they were nice to me personally, they wanted us and our company out.
Its not a complete picture, but was my experience and was firsthand.
Notfromnatchez, thank you for your willingness to defend America and proven service under fire. I will do my best to pray and vote for wise leadership in that regard.
Posted by harjedalen (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh yeah, Bring them home now!!
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 12:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I do not have to shut my mouth and I am not a piece of crap, notfromnatchez. Being enlisted does not give you the right to talk to people like dogs and that's something I've seen you do lots on here. You don't know anything about harjedalen and yet you called him a moron just because he said he had been to Iraq. What's your problem? Maybe you're suffering from PTSD and could use a break. Don't go back to Iraq.
Posted by America (anonymous) on November 2, 2008 at 9:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
just because you went to iraq doesn't mean you can slander the character of others. And everyone else just because you are who you are and did not go to iraq does not give you any right to slander him either. The war was wrong. It was an invasion against a sovereign nation. Bush could not present any factual evidence to substantiate his baseless claims that lacked any authenticity.
If we talk to the Middle East countries rather than exert a force on them we might be able to bring some placidity to the region.
Posted by GodsChild (anonymous) on November 3, 2008 at 3:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We should have been out of there bye 2003...
No, We should have never been there in the 1st Place!!!!!
Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on November 3, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
notfromnatchez, chill out man. Why do you call a guy a moron for telling his story? You are the the only soldier who has spent time in the desert.
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on November 3, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
War with Iran is immienent , I believe. As with Afganistan and many places in the mideast . That's one of many reasons to have a president that understands what is at stake and will be able and willing to do whatever is neccessary to protect us is so important . obama is untrustworthy . Vote McCain/Palin tomorrow.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on November 3, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Maybe McCain could invade Iraq and MAKE them accept our troops for as long as he wants.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on November 3, 2008 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
War with Iran is imminent, (IMHO) IF McCain/Palin win tomorrow.
But I'm placing my trust in God that whomever wins will be His will.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on November 3, 2008 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
southernbelle says war with Iran is imminent. I wonder why she would say that.
We installed a president for them in the 1950's and he ruled for over 25 years with our help. The people hated him and overthrew him, and seized our embassy to make a point -- they hated us for doing that.
Then we supported Saddam Hussein in a war against Iran, shot down one of their airliners ourselves, and watched as a million people from both sides died. That made all of them hate us worse.
Now Bush invades Iraq and gives the Shiite majority power -- so they will naturally be an ally for Iran. So why go to war with Iran?
Because they want nuclear weapons to protect themselves from US and from Israel, both nuclear powers that threaten them, now we say that War is unavoidable???????
There are plenty of insane, hateful, warlike people in this country and if you let them they will use our national treasury and what is left of our good name to make wars constantly although we are not threatened at all by this country. Israel chooses to invade surrounding territories and make settlements there. They squeeze the people they moved out to make their own country, and so muslim allies of the displaced in the area won't let them rest. That is only right. One day Israel may have a nuclear device blown up in one of their cities, but who would expect to get away with displacing hundreds of thousands of people and NOT be attacked?
John McCain has no experience keeping peace. He only has experience fighting, and was not very good at that. If you want a world where peace has a chance you have to elect people who are experienced with peace. Obama/Biden -- unless you want endless war. Or YOUR child could sit in an enemy POW camp for 5 or 6 years or worse -- then be a part of a war we lost.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on November 3, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
God has NOTHING to do with this election.
Don't rely on your imaginary friends.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on November 3, 2008 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
William "Bill" Lear, Jr. stated this:
I've associated closely with European royalty and African politicians. I've traveled to the Far East to observe their cultures. My point is that Obama, although formally well educated and a brilliant orator, is a neophyte when it comes to understanding the world and is uniquely unqualified for the job as President of these great United States . His knowledge of economics is nil and his tax proposals absurd and life-threatening to the U.S. not only in economic terms but in preserving our national security as well. I don't want a "citizen of the world" to be President, I want a citizen of the good old USA to be President. Screw the rest of the world as they have well and truly screwed us. The time has come for us to awaken and start looking after ourselves. Now THAT would be CHANGE if that's what you're looking for.
Now, yeahuduh, how about the Congo? The coming of war is calling out from there. What are we suppose to do, run away from that too? That will be the case if we elect a coward of a president.
Two things are for certain if Obama becomes president:
1) The people of this country will experience even more of a gap between races due to Obama's socialism which will cause animosity between the hard working and the LAZY people of this country (in other words, the givers and the takers)
2) Yeahuduh will finally shut up and quit calling every one stupid.
Well, at least the first statement is for certain.
Posted by harjedalen (anonymous) on November 3, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
John Mccain has stated on more than one occasion that if he is elected he will move our embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, "right away" upon taking office.
No other foreign embassies are located there. This will cause outrage among the Palestinian and Arab people, who demand that Jerusalem will be their capital in any peace compromise.
John Mccain will be a great recruiter for Al Quaeda.
Barack Obama has stated he would make no such move until both sides come close to a final status agreement.
The fact that John Mccain would make a move that will create more enemies for USA without offering us any strategic advantages shows either his lack of judgement, or his commitment to Israel over his commitment to our nation. Maybe both.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on November 3, 2008 at 5:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
And, if for some reason John McCain couldn't continue after being elected, Sarah Palin will become the president. Is she ready?
Here is a recording of Palin being punked by a Canadian Radio Station. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dawn-teo/p...
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
obamayamama -- how does it feel having your way of seeing the world stomped out right in front of you?
When did you ever care about what happens in the Congo?
You are not just stupid, yomama. You are insincere, and that is far worse.
Posted by broonzy (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
obamayamama is right, we need a president who spent 5 years in a cage so he's angry enough to kick the butts of the bad guys in this world. cuz Obama gonna kill babies and eat them cuz he's a commie and he's weak (I'm sure he would not stand a minute in a slug fest : that's how I decide who to vote for). We should put an end to diplomacy and simply attack the members of the evil party. We should attack russia, all the countries with a name ending by -an (and also Egypt for we bring in las vegas the real pyramids), france cuz they're chickens, china (in order to clear out our debt) and all the dictatorships in the world (north korea, lybia, bielorussia, cuba, venezuela, bolivia cuz those ones are socialist like Obama! well Obama is more a stalinist by the way, he's the head of a Jewish-Communist-Islamist- Socialist-Terrorist-Fried.chickenist plot).
Yeahuhuh, it's good to have people like yomama on the other side. it helps...
UN, Nato are institutions we have forgotten during the bush years, thinking that hefty America could do whatever she wants by herself. Now, how is the country after 8 years of those 'policies'? gop : pro-america? yep, that's why they ruined it. for its sake I suppose.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Broony -- "fried-chickenist" plot to conquer America. Now that is something we in the south could understand but might slip past folks from other areas.
When all you guys vote today -- remember that when you are in the booth, nobody knows if you voted for Obama. Be a part of history so you will have something to brag to your grandkids about.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 9:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
End the politics of fear...vote Obama...end the war...vote Obama...healthcare for everyone...vote Obama...reduce the tax burden on the middleclass...vote Obama!
Good luck Obama. If it's God's will, you will be THE PRESIDENT!
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
broonzy:)
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If Obama wins, in the morning we can have FRENCH toast for breakfast and FRENCH fries for lunch without feeling guilty, lol. We can FRENCH kiss again and we won't need to send the Statue of Liberty back. Freedom kiss?...ohhh, I guess that was the bombs we dropped on Iraq. It may have been good for us, but I bet they didn't enjoy it. And in reality it wasn't good for us either:(
Posted by aak1972 (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
time4change, I will kiss your a#$ if we have less taxes and healthcare for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!! That will never happen it is mathematically impossible.
Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 10:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Can somebody tell me what the hell broonzy is talking about. I can't tell if he is being serious b/c there are so many Bush fanatics that really believe what he is saying.
Posted by straightshooter1 (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 11:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
NoTime, Boozy, Uhuh and the rest of the loser lefties who post on here constantly will probably get their wish. Notfrom, thanks for your service and even though you don't agree, God bless you.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)
aak, I think saving 2 billion per week would make it possible. Should I drop em now? Pucker up.
Posted by time4change (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mod_python error: "PythonHandler django.core.handlers.modpython"
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line 299, in HandlerDispatch
result = object(req)
File "/home/code/django/core/handlers/modpython.py", line 190, in handler
return ModPythonHandler()(req)
File "/home/code/django/core/handlers/modpython.py", line 160, in __call__
self.load_middleware()
File "/home/code/django/core/handlers/base.py", line 29, in load_middleware
raise exceptions.ImproperlyConfigured, 'Error importing middleware %s: "%s"' % (mw_module, e)
ImproperlyConfigured: Error importing middleware django.middleware.sessions: "cannot import name core"
Posted by harjedalen (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
aak1972, he didnt say less taxes, he said less taxes on the middle class.
Posted by aak1972 (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It will not happen. I dont agree with the war spending but if all the troops come home and we have zero dollars going out taxes will not ever decrease. When you file your taxes return for 2009 I bet you will see no decrease.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
aak1972 let me give you a scenario.
Negotiate with pharmaceutical companies for all government contracts including Medicare, Medicaid and Veterans Admin.
Allow re-importation of pharmaceuticals from countries that wil honor US prescriptions.
End the Iraq war.
Shift tax burden back to where it was during Clinton.
Plenty of money in those changes. They are a start.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 5:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I was part of history today. I voted for the first female vice-president. Palin rocks!
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