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City studies traffic
Published Friday, October 31, 2008
NATCHEZ — A traffic study conducted on Thursday showed that one single traffic light in Natchez was violated 80 times in six hours.
The study was done to determine which traffic lights on city streets will be equipped with surveillance cameras.
The board of aldermen approved the placement of these cameras — which instantly click on when a light turns red — on certain city signals.
And best of all, it will be of no cost to the city. Mayor Jake Middleton said the costs of camera installation and maintenance is completely incurred by the company touting the cameras, Red Speed Mississippi.
Red Speed representative Tom Ramsey said the profits from each $120 ticket written is split 50-50 between the city and Red Speed.
The cameras operate on no power until a signal turns red. Half a second after the signal turns red, the camera turns on and takes a digital image and a 12-second video of an automobile running the red light.
If a motorist is crossing the white line at the intersection after the light turns, the camera will record the violation with three different pictures.
The first picture is the car before the white line, the second picture is the vehicle in the intersection underneath the light — the speed at which the car is traveling is recorded, too — and the third picture is a close up of the license plate.
Taking a picture of the car in front of the white line is key, Ramsey said, because if a car is in the intersection as the light turns, that’s not running a red light.
The pictures of the violation are sent to the Red Speed office, where a designated reviewer views the documentation, makes a decision and then sends it to a supervisor who does the same.
The pictures then go to the DMV, where it’s decided if there was a violation. Then the pictures go to the Natchez Police Department, where an officer decides if it’s a violation.
“The police officer locally has the final say, it’s not up to us,” Ramsey said.
After all is said and done and a ticket is issued, a motorist can contest the ticket in court.
Ramsey said one of the major misconceptions of the red light system is that it’s all technical, with no people involved, and that there’s no due process.
“A lot of people have this notion of some draconian computer spitting out violations at will, but four human beings review it before it takes issue, and you can still go before a judge,” he said.
And certain scenarios like clearing the way for an ambulance or a funeral procession are not punished if it involves violating a red light.
“It’s reviewed by police officers so it’s the same as if a cop was sitting there, except for the fact it’s a cop that never blinks,” he said.
Natchez Police Chief Mike Mullins said there is a need for such a device in the city.
He said the police department writes approximately 60 accident reports per month, 40 percent of which include injuries.
“And that’s pretty constant,” Mullins said.
Insurance companies report that for every 30 wrecks with injuries there are per month, the police should be writing an equivalent of 10 to 15 hazardous moving violation tickets.
Hazardous moving violation tickets include no signaling, stop sign and light violations or anything that could cause a wreck.
As far as writing these violations, Mullins said the police department is far behind.
So if the average for traffic accidents with injuries is 20 per month, by the insurance equation, NPD should be writing at least 200 tickets a month.
“For the last three years, we’ve been writing 120 a month,” Mullins said.
NPD is so short handed and most times officers are busy responding to calls, he said. So there is no time to camp out at intersections and watch for traffic violations.
“Hopefully the goal with this Red Speed program will be a reduction in injury accidents at red light,” he said.
And Ramsey said it will happen.
He said it’s proven that in places where cameras are installed, there is a 45- to 50-percent decrease in accidents.
Also, rear end collisions were decreased by 10 percent and right angle crashes were decreased by at least 40 percent, he said.
Ramsey said Red Speed will start by installing two cameras and, depending on how well it works, will add subsequent cameras.
He said it will take around 60 days for the cameras to be installed and online.
Promotion of the cameras will take place at schools and throughout the city, and the placement of each device will be well-known, Ramsey said.
After a few months, a 24-hour surveillance camera will be added to the existing camera.
Middleton said this will help with downtown problems caused by bar crawlers.
“That will help us curtail late night noise and other things going on,” Middleton said.
Ramsey said having that kind of constant monitor will also prove beneficial in the advent of amber alerts and other crimes.
Comments
Posted by Omega (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 12:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
“Red Speed representative Tom Ramsey said the profits from each $120 ticket written is split 50-50 between the city and Red Speed.”
Sorry Mr. Ramsey, you can’t get that much. The city part of that $120 ticket is only between $30.00 to $40.00. The rest is a state assessment that goes to fund different state programs. You can bet the State Auditor’s Office is going to get his cut. So, Mr. Ramsey you will only get between $15.00 and $20.00 for each violation.
Posted by constantskeptic (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 1:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"A traffic study conducted on Thursday showed that one single traffic light in Natchez was violated 80 times in six hours."
How many of them were Natchez Police Department cruisers without their sirens or lights on?
Posted by parahawk (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 2:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
one more way for the city to make more money. I wonder what they will do with the police officers that should have written those tickets.
Posted by frogprincenessntz (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 2:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Which light had 80 people run it?
Posted by Muggle (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 3:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well dear readers,,,,,It's only a matter of time before Vidalia will probably be contacted by Red Speed too!
They already have camera's at all the red lights! They're supposed to be the kind of camera's that tell the light when to change,,,,,But I'm sure the Mayor and Aldermen can figure out a way to make some more money off the tickets these camera's can generate!
Red Light runner's beware!
Seriously though,,,,,Maybe it will save a life! Some people fly through the lights and stop signs! It's only a matter of time before someone else is killed!
Posted by crawgator (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 5:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They could put one up at the stop sign on cross street and make a fortune on it all day.
Posted by LdyBreez (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 6:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Can't put them up at stop signs. It would have to run constantly...
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 6:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, it is time to make a device like James Bond Had that would flip the license plate over when you are driving through Natchez. I do not agree with running red lights, BUT if I am in a part of town that is unsafe at night and some thuggie comes up to try and grab my door, like they have done in Jackson, the camera will not only see me run the light but will be considered Exhibit A in court when they see me drag said piece of crap around the block by the door handle.....
The camera should only be on from 6:30 am til 6:30 pm. This is the high traffic time of the day. When there is no traffic, forget about it......
Posted by 3on23 (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 6:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well there goes our "right on red" which I really liked for those times when there is not another vehicle in sight.
Posted by veroniss (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 6:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
THANK YOU,I HAVE BEEN CLOSE TO BEING HIT MANY TIMES.PEOPLE ARE RUNNING THE RED LIGHTS.THEY WILL NOT STOP.I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON BUT,IT IS CRAZY.THEY DON'T NEED TO BE DRIVING.
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 7:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
In Jackson, the right on red at the lights that have cameras show up and are NOT ticketed,. All you have to do is go up there and show them that you were turning right on red. BUT you have to come to a complete stop, I repeat , A COMPLETE STOP before turning right on red. This is something that I have witnessed not being done often in the Jackson area.
You have to turn on your turn signal to let the camera know you are turning.....I do not understand why so many people act like the turn signal is OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT that they could not afford when they bought the car. It is not an option and I am glad to see that Natchez will also be using the cameras for that violation too. Maybe it will make some people use them more often and it sounds like the city budget will be very inflated soon...
More money to hire worthless folks like city planners......yes I mean You Rusty Lewis....
Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 7:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I would bet money the intersection where this study took place was at Sgt Prentiss and Devreaux. I drive thru this twice a day and almost EVERY time somebody runs the light. I have seen NPD park an officer at this intersection one time, and that was when the lights were out from the Hurricane.
I was tempted to take my camera one day and just record how many people run this light to show the NPD and alderman how bad it was. But I am sure they know this know since these camera are coming.
Posted by bayou (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 7:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Way to go Natchez! Sounds like a win win situation doesn't cost the city any money and the red light runners will get a ticket. If you ever lost a love one,especially a child,because of some idiot you would be all for it.
Posted by sammiell (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Just last week I saw an SUV and a car both run the red light in front of Walmart on Sgt. Prentiss. I became furious at those people because they saw that light was red before they went thru it, not a police officer around and someone could have been seriously hurt all because of some people who were in a rush to go no-where. Then, I thought hopefully the camera is on and recording. If I was careless enough to do it, then I deserve whatever the consequences are. Also, it is a good backup for the police and citizens who disagree as to someone running the light.
Posted by andy (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I CANNOT BELIEVE NATCHEZ WILL GO INTO SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND LET A PRIVATE COMPANY GET HALF THE FINE. COPS NEED TO WORK AND DO THEIR JOB OR WE NEED LESS POLICE AND LET SOME PRIVATE COMPANY DO THEIR JOB
Posted by NameThatTune (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Now there will be documentation of City and County employees using City and County vehicles for private use.
Posted by Hambone (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What if the camera catches you not wearing your seatbelt? This is going to open a big can of worms. The revenue from these cameras should be used to put GPS on police and all city owned vehicles, what's good for the goose...
Posted by NTZglasshouses (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Understand this. Its not about safety, its about the almighty dollar. If it were about safety, we would not be paying Red Speed for every ticket for eternity.
1. The owner of the car/tag gets the ticket. Not the driver. So, how is this about "safety?" Its not, its about revenue. Go "borrow" your enemy's car tag for a few hours and speed through every red light in town, then return it to their car. Thats what happens when a camera takes the place of a person.
2. The ticket does not appear on your driving record. Well, whats the point? Basically you if you have enough money, you can run red lights all day long...its not a moving violation. It will cost you $120 per light, but if you have that, who cares? Again, not about safety, about revenue.
I would suggest that for every ticket received, the "violator" go to court and fight it. You may lose, but who cares. Enough people contesting these tickets will put an end to the traffic light jackpot bonanza.
Also, if it were really about safety, I would be all for it. But its not. If it were, there would be cameras pointed at the driver as well. They are writing tickets to cars, not people.
Posted by c_8512 (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Depending on the camera's resolution and focus, a driver might even be facing seatbelt, no child restraints, open container violations, expired tags, etc., in addition to running a red light. Add sound to the cameras and the drivers could be charged with violating the so-called noise ordinance also.
Hey, this could generate enough revenue to hire more police officers after all!
Posted by EnKiKur (Marty Ellerbe) on October 31, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If the cameras did what they are supposed to do, increase safety, they wouldn't make enough money to justify putting them up.
Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It would be nice if safety was the true concern here, but, It is sad to say that it is not. Are you telling me a shady camera deal is the right choice? If safety was the issue, why haven't more tickets been written first? The old fashion way? This is nothing more than another money grab. The town is broke and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it. Annexation of large spans of property to gin more car tag and property tax, new taxes, revisiting of the sign ordinace for fines, prioritizing certain street repair over others instead of all streets because of lack of funds or not enough GRANTS. When will it end. This towns leadership looks to the dwindling tax paying population to solve it's own eneptness to generate new bussiness and population growth. Until the goverment here starts looking in the mirror instead of the few taxpayers to solve it's problems things will never change, it will only get worse.
Posted by NtzMom55 (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Will the horse and carriage get a ticket for "trotting" through a red light downtown? What about government owned vehicles (county, city, state, school vehicles, buses, etc.?)
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 5:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
NtzMom55 I've already had a talk with my horse. If he get's a ticket he's gotta eat it!!
Posted by catfish (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 7:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Folks if you think that cameras at red lights are a bad idea you should take a long hard look at your on driving habits. The average driver makes 30,000 to 40,000 driving mistakes a year. As a driver trainer for a world wide company for the last ten years and a professional driver for 35 years it is my job to watch our drivers and coach them on the mistakes that they make while driving.
There is not a day that goes by that I do see someone run a red light or fail to come to a complete stop at a stop sign and that’s what the sign says STOP not roll up, look and keep going and yes I have seen city and county officers roll through stop signs also. I have even been stopped at a light and other drivers just speed on by. When I drive I am watching all the other drivers on the road, looking for your mistakes so that I can stay out of your way.
Most drivers don’t realize it but the most dangerous thing they do each day is to get into an automobile and get on the road and drive. Most drivers drive as if they are the only one on the road and they can zip in and out lanes of traffic without signaling or they can put their makeup on while driving or talk on the cell phone or ride so close to the vehicle in front of them that you can not see their head lights all the while trying to push the car in front down the road and of course speeding, there is no place inside the city limits with a speed limit over 45MHP. I will pick out one vehicle that passes me and when I get to the next light there they are sitting there waiting on the light burning up gasoline and I will go through the light with them and never have to stop. Try this some time, just drive the speed limit and you can go all the way around town without catching a red light most of the time.
Oh, back to the cell phones, using your cell phone while driving has the same effect as being under the influence of alcohol as far as a distraction and reaction time to avoid a crash. Just look around at how many people are using cell phones while driving and if you look close you will find about 3 out 5 drivers are using cells while driving and the hands free devices do not make it any better, you are still distracted and behind the wheel of 3000 pounds or more of rolling metal.
If you think the cameras are not about safety you are dead wrong. Ever intersection around the by-pass from Morgantown to the bridge and on out 61 South should have the cameras. I think the city is going the right direction with the cameras.
There is not an auto accident that could not have been avoided. By being more alert, not being distracted, being courteous to other drivers and driving defensively. Driving is a privilege not a right.
Well that’s it for me, but I could go on about driving safety.
Posted by Hambone (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 9:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
30 to 40K driving mistakes/year? That is 80 to 110 mistakes a day. I call bull on that.
Cameras are not going to increase safety. The ones that get these tickets probably aren't going to pay them and we'll have to have another amnesty day for them to come pay their fines. Look at it like this: the only way Red Speed makes money is if tickets are issued. It isn't that hard to alter an image and make it look like the light was red when it was really green. I say everyone that gets one of these tickets contest it.
Posted by NtzMom55 (anonymous) on October 31, 2008 at 10:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
How do you get a job like that guy does who counts how many mistakes a driver makes per year? If it pays over $30,000, I want to apply for it.
Posted by presby (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 12:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Why can,t they take that money and catch the thugs that burglarized the familys home down 61 south and send them up for about 50 years??
Posted by presby (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 12:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Put some cameras on the residential streets off Morgantown road. I live on one of them and the school buses and public transit come flying through the neighborhood going 35-45mph or however fast the rigs will go in a 15 mph speed limit zone. I guess the money is worth more than some childs life. It won,t do any good to complain.already been there done that.
Posted by johnwentworth (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 12:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You can't put the cameras on roads that are maintained with federal or state funds. I am going to go as far as assuming these are all going to be placed downtown. What about "right turn on red"??? or lights like the one in front of the Visitor's Center that never changes when you are leaving the columned circle?
Posted by presby (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 12:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchez has the most fouled up redlight system there is anywhere. It,s all about getting your money,if they were really concerned about the safety ane welfare of the people they would stop these speeding school buses,public transits and just plain speeder coming through the residential sections of town.
Posted by presby (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 12:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is a river town will a lot of heavy party people. They drove like madmen in the sixties and it ain,t changed. It,s not gonna change either. When it rains they really go crazy,it must be the moisture in the air or sumpin,who knows. Natchez drivers are all wild and reckless.
Posted by presby (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 12:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
In Natchez if you stop completely at a red light,you will get slammed in the rearend.Somebody is always riding your bumper it seems like,always. Trying to hurry you up,so they can hurry.I had one slide sideways into the left lane going north in front of my vehicle missing me by inches and then crossed the road,went to Wendys to get a burger...turn completely sideways...madness. ...it might be the drinking water here..I always filter it twice.
Posted by presby (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 12:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If camera,s start catching us,then NPD should be ticketed for being places they aren,t supposed to be when on the job or parked yakking to their buddies and freinds. Catch everybody don,t discriminate. Especially late at night,know some folks that heard them and saw them...sometimes too much surveillance might catch some of the people doing the spying. They might not like that too much. When is enough going to be enough. They will be putting cameras in the bathrooms next.
Posted by presby (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 12:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If we,re going to start catching folks doing wrong,let,s try to catch EVERYBODY that,s breaking the law and doing wrong.
Posted by presby (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 12:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If they would have had a camera in the Showboat years ago,half of Natchez wouldn,t be married.
Posted by presby (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 12:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What about the speed DEMONS in the neighborhoods,why can,t that be in the surviellance program,put camera,s everywhere i say.Downtown,on the bridge,in all the neighborhoods.schools,everywhere.Let,s do it up right. Start with all the offices in the courthouse uptown.
Posted by catfish (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Dangyankee, a driver should check all their mirrors every 5-8 seconds and always before applying the brake that’s to be sure some other driver is not tailgating trying to push you down the road. The company I work has it’s on driving schools and every driver goes through that school before they get behind the wheel of our vehicle not only in the US but all over the world. We spent a lot of time, money and a lot of research in training our drivers so they do not make the mistakes that cost lives. In just the US we have over 4000 DOT drivers and more non-DOT and they all spent 3 days to two weeks in driving school depending on the type of vehicle they will drive. The training does not stop there. Our drivers are constantly taking driving related training to sharpen their skills.
As far as counting mistakes, I see 2-3 on every driver that passes by me most of the time. Take this scenario. Driver tailgating (that’s1), whips into other lane no signal (now 2), whips back in front no signal (then 3). Plus not look back over the shoulder for a positive glance before changing lanes, clearing the blind spot (add 2 more). Also add reckless driving, for nearly taking the fender off. You see it is easy to find the mistakes if you know what to look for. I suggest you go out to the driver’s license office and get the drivers hand book and read it again it may refresh your memory. Oh, it cost $0.50.
And for the writer that said running a red light is not a moving violation you are wrong. That is disobeying a traffic device and it will show up on motor vehicle report (MVR). We run MVR’s on all of our drivers at least once a year.
Question: Who knows the proper following distance?
Question: Do you know why UPS trucks just park in the street when delivering a package even when a parking space is available?
Posted by Hambone (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks for the drivers ed lesson. Sounds like you could be watching the road instead of other drivers. For every car that passes you, you are taking your eyes off the road and your mirrors to look at other drivers and counting their mistakes. You're not the perfect driver you think you are.
All the mistakes that you cited, none of them will be corrected with these cameras.
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
it is hard to believe that I tend to agree with a yankee....but it is true. The cameras will be placed under the pretense of need, but it is soley for the good of the almighty dollar. I wish people would jut follow the driving laws, except for the speed limit, and they would not have a business..
I wonder if the cameras come with sound so they can ticket the moronic imbeciles that drive around blaring that crap that passes for music in the "hood? Does anyone know????
Posted by dynagirl (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 1:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I live with these up here in Maryland, plus speed cameras in DC & a few other counties.
1. no points are given for a camera violation, so it's not a moving violation.
2. they are on any and all roads--local, county, state, wherever they are needed.
3. if you are in a situation where, according to your judgment, you must speed or run a red light--say you are rushing to the hospital or to pick up your sick child--you won't get stopped by an officer (very time consuming), and you can often get the ticket reduced or forgiven if you have proof.
I've gotten one red light and one speeding ticket via camera, and I drive like a Natchezian! it's pretty easy to figure out where they are and change some habits accordingly.
Posted by NameThatTune (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 7:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think there's a device implanted in UPS trucks similar to a GPS that indicates empty parking spots so that the UPS truck can park parallel to the space, irritating everybody wanting to park in the vacant space. This causes drivers to make endless loops, running lights, forcing the city to buy cameras to catch them running the lights. It's a vicious cycle. Blame it on UPS.
Posted by concernedNTZcitizen (anonymous) on November 1, 2008 at 7:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The light by Isle of Capri doesn't work like it should. I bet 120 people a day run it. Because if not, they would be there ALL DAY.
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