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photo by Ben Hillyer
Clint Blackman from Gulf Services, a demolition company from Mobile, Ala., scrapes up debris from the front steps of the old First Baptist Church in Natchez. Weather permitting, Blackman will continue with demolition this morning.
Former First Baptist Church tumbles down
Published Tuesday, October 27, 2009
NATCHEZ — The cracking pipes and falling bricks on Main Street had all the makings of a sad moment for the small group of onlookers standing by Monday, but most admitted they were glad to see the day.
Among the crowd watching the former First Baptist Church fall were a nearby neighbor, a former member and the staff of the Catholic church that now owns the lot.
“I’m glad to see it go,” Main Street resident Robbie Greer said. “I don’t think they had any other choice.”
The congregation of St. Mary Basilica purchased the dilapidated building in August and announced plans soon after to clear the lot.
A small amount of asbestos was removed from the building a week ago, and demolition began late last week.
St. Mary has hired a contractor from Mobile, Ala., to demolish the building, haul away the rubble and leave a leveled lot for approximately $100,000. No timetable for the completion of the demolition has been set.
The Rev. David O’Connor, pastor of St. Mary, said the lot will become green space for the foreseeable future. The church will plant some shrubs and possibly crape myrtles around the edge of the lot and simply let it be for a while.
“We don’t know what form we’ll take with it eventually,” O’Connor said. “Beyond that there are no plans, and no plans will be made for a few years.”
Instead St. Mary is focused on the construction of a new family life center where Main Street Marketplace is currently located. No ground breaking day has been set.
O’Connor watched some of the demolition Monday, and said he knew the building carried memories for many locals. Though the church’s contract with demolition company leaves the debris to the contractor, O’Connor said — as long as the excavator operator agreed — he thought it was fine for former church members to come by and take a brick for sentimental reasons if they’d like.
“People have a lot of sentiments about this,” O’Connor said. “People were baptized and married there. But for the most part, people say it’s time to see it go.”
Brookhaven resident Doug Falvey is a former member of First Baptist who stopped by the demolition site while in town for other business Monday.
“It’s hard to believe,” he said. “My son was baptized there, and he’s a minister of First Baptist Church in Madison now. It makes me feel good about what he’s done with this life. It was a very close-knit church.”
Natchez resident Patricia Murphy was among the group watching as well.
“I hate the fact that it was left to deteriorate, but it’s a danger now,” she said. “I’m glad to get it down.”
First Baptist was built in 1921. The church moved from the location to its current one on D’Evereux Drive in the 1970s.
In the 1980s FBC sold the building to Durrell Armstrong of Wichita, Kan. The building’s roof fell in during 2005, and Armstrong soon donated it to Universal Missions Inc.
Universal Missions sold the building to Dream Homes in 2007, which announced plans to build condos. Under Dream Homes’ ownership the stained glass windows were removed from the church, further opening it to the elements and contributing to its destruction.
Last summer, the building was deemed to be in a state of demolition by neglect.
Dream Homes owner Judy Weatherly sold the former church to St. Mary for $147,000, avoiding the pending criminal charges for demolition by neglect.
Comments
Posted by natchez1 (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 12:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Seems a shame that the company that was hired made no effort to preserve any element of the building. Its best features were the front columns which were destroyed, as were the rather nice door casings. It seems that "Dream Homes" at least cared enough for the building to remove the windows and save them from further damage and preserve them.
Somewhat Ironic that the "Preservation Commision" did everything it could to hamper an attempt at restoration and then allowed the building to be demolished without any attempt to save any feature of the building. The columns could have been preserved as a "Mini Windsor" or even moved to the "Baptist Beginings" site out on Hwy. 61 North.
Maybe the Catholics don't care for protestant history?
Posted by speakup (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 1:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
you must be kidding. why on earth would you make that stupid statement about protestant history. you didn't make a statement about the bpts buying the building back and restoring history.. it was a danger to let it just sit there. and also, just where are those windows?
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 5:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I stopped to watch the action for a few minutes and I found it necessary to suppress my natural inclination to root through salvage and garbage and such. But other than that I felt no guilt or sadness. Depending on the final result I think this is a big step forward for Main Street.
We have more structures that need to come down. Commerce Street, Canal, Homochitto,......
We should not try and preserve the unpreservable. And structures not wanted by anyone (willing to buy 'em) are unpreservable. Get rid of 'em.
Posted by itsmemame (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 5:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
natchez 1, Why should "the Catholics" be concerned with protestant history when the protestants WEREN'T??? I agree with speakup, that was just plain stupid!!! Either go to bed and get some sleep or have a cup of coffee.
Posted by iluvntz2 (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 6:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Dream Homes did not take the windows to preserve them, they took them to sell them off for whatever money she could get. They also ripped the gutters off by tying a rope to a truck and pulling them down. And they cut off the handrails. The manor in which the metals were removed were not done in such a way as to reuse, but simply for metal scrap. They gutted the building for the money they could get out of it. What was left was falling in on itself and extremely dangerous.
If you must blame someone, blame Dream Homes for putting the eventual destruction in motion. I believe that an article in this very paper mentioned that Dream Homes has done this to other buildings in New Orleans. Unfortunately the company name appears to be misleading, by design?
Posted by SayItRight (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 6:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Does the Natchez area not have a company that could have demolished the building? I know Natchez doesn't like to tear down things, especially historic ones, but somebody in a surrounding county at least could have done the work. Guess it was put out to bid and the money from that goes back to Allabammy! So much for keeping it in Natchez.
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 6:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
SayItRight, the only locals that I know of capable of such a demolition project would be Philip West Inc.
And I think they are now defunct.
Posted by xenon314 (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 7:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
natchez1 -
Let me get this straight:
FBC built themselves a new facility (nothing wrong with that) and abandoned the original...
Durrell Armstrong bought it, and did nothing...
Universal Missions got it from Armstrong as a donation, and did nothing...
Dream Homes bought it, and did worse than nothing, essentially stripping the carcass...
St. Mary's buys it, has long-term plans for the site, and it's THEIR fault for demolishing it?
Seriously.
Posted by speakup (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 7:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
and the firsdt bpts had enough money that some one borrowed a million dollars with out them knowing it many years ago?
Posted by maple (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 7:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchez1 So you think Catholics dont care for protestants and thats there way of showing there dislike by tearing down an old delapidated building.. Poor Poor Silly you.. this is the problem with religion as a whole.. to much bitterness between them and competition.. treat people the way you want to be treated .. you dont practice religion if you think this way .. get a life.. religions in this town are equivalent to Social Clubs.. I guess that is the case in most places..What a joke of a statement..
Posted by tiredoflosers (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
At least the catholics got off their collective butts and done something. Better than the Mayor and BOA.
Posted by snowgarden (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchez1, you just stepped in it big time. You obviously haven't been keeping up with the saga that was FBC, therefore, you should keep your mouth shut. I think someone already said it, but they did NOT take those windows to "preserve" them, much like the other things that were antiques that were removed. She took them out, sold them in her antique shop (or moved them elsewhere) and then just left FBC to rot further. Yeah, GREAT protestant, catholic, jew, athiest, WHATEVER. Religion did not play a part in the destruction of this once beautiful old building. Greed, laziness and neglect were the only factors. I think its wonderful that Father O'Connor's congregation finally stepped in to take steps in any direction with this property. I am saddened by the fact that it had to go, much like many Natchezians, but I too see that it had no other choice. It's a horrible shame. I love our old buildings just as much as anyone and I hate that it had to go, but don't be an idiot and blame the Catholic church.
Posted by grungebob (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Looks like a great place for softball. Anyone got the Mason's number?
Posted by getthefacts (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What a great building and why did our city let this building get to this point. Will we let this happen to all the old buildings in town? Then we will be just any other city any were in the USA.
Posted by natchez1 (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok - I should have not criticized the RC church - that should not have been said.
However I have been paying attention - I have watched the building rot - I have seen the city and the Preservation Commission ignore the building when it could have been saved. The roof collapsed because in 1997 the "non tornado" removed the flat metal roof. Everyone knew this - everyone knew this would lead to the roof collapsing. The city and the Preservation Commission did nothing, allowed an owner with plenty of money do nothing - It took eight years for the roof to collapse - Eight years of NOTHING.
Finally a company bought the wreck of the building. Yes they removed tons of crap out of the building - yes they removed the windows - but they had to be removed - the building was falling down - to no fault of Dream Homes.
Dream Homes I honestly believe intended to convert the building. They hired an architect, they had structural engineers - they cleaned up the building - why do that if they just wanted the windows?
That building did not have enough salvage to justify the purchase price. The copper gutters would have come off the building in any restoration they attach to the roof beams which are falling in.
Dream Homes lost money on this project - the only silver lining for them if they had proceeded and got going on the building during the "boom" they would have much more invested and no clients for the condos.
The Preservation Commision in the end did them a favor.
The Preservation Commision though were rude, hostile, and accused them of crimes. The Preservation Commision and the Planning Department could have saved the building 12 years ago - they chose to do nothing.
Don't blame Dream Homes for trying, don't blame Dream Homes for actually managing to preserve at least a little of the church. Former Members who were given windows back (by Jim Thompson of Dream Homes)that their families donated will always have a momento.
The "famous" Pews were saved - they were sold years ago by Durrell Armstrong to the New Covenent Presbyterian Church.
I just wish that the front columns and some of the door casings had been saved.
It is not a secret that St. Mary's want more parking for the new Life Center. Why not be honest and say so?
I am a Catholic - (not a good one but I do not get struck by lighting when I leave the church) Although that may change.
I will not be sorry to see the church go - By I will notice the big hole on the corner of Main and think what might have been if people had done their job before it was too late.
It is another case of incompetance in Natchez.
Posted by pbnj (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The city had plenty of time to do something with that old church and they did not. Then a company from out of town buys it WHICH MEANS THOSE WERE HER WINDOWS to do what she wanted. No one cared about those windows when they were on the unstable building being busted out. No one cared until an outsider came in and BOUGHT the windows and then resold them.
Glad that the church has the property but how that lady was treated over some windows is ridiculous.
So when the city gets through with Dr. Vaughn I wonder whose name will be drawn out of the hat next? Maybe they could throw some of their stones at a local property owner that feels they are above city codes.
Posted by Southernhope (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I grew up and was baptized in the old FBC. I don't live in Natchez anymore, but it saddens me to see what was once a beautiful building full of memories torn to the ground. It's a shame the building was not taken care of over the years.
Posted by pbnj (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You said it Natchez1!!!! people should stop blaming Dream Homes when that building has been falling in for years.
So here is a question........What should have been done with the windows if they were still there now??
Posted by Bigfish (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 10:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Who ever owns or o wned it had the right to do almost anything with they please. They paid for it, and with purchasing it, they can do anything they want with it. Dreamhomes Inc, simply sold the stainedglass and scrap metal that they OWNED!
I mean it is terrible that the building was abandoned, don't get me wrong. However once it wasn't worth fixing, then the owners should have the right to demo it, strip the metals, etc as they see fit.
I don't blame dreamhome for taking out the stained glass and metals and I don't blame the Catholic Church for demolishing the building. The building was unfixable long before that.
Posted by robertgaines63 (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with SayItRight. I cannot believe a local church would contract out to a company from Mobile, AL. I know that St. Marys Church has many members that are in the construction business. You would think that the people making the contract/services decisions would consider their own first. Natchezians, and more importantly members of St. Marys, should be upset that their money is being sent to Alabama.
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As a Catholic I care about Protestant history. King Henry VIII declaring himself head of the church over the Pope in Rome. Cutting off the heads of his wives because he would not be granted annulment so that he could remarry. Awsome. I love that story
Posted by natchez1 (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
humorme - he was the defender of the faith though ----
as appointed by the Pope -
He did divorce 2 - beheaded 2 - and one died - he died before he could get rid of another wife.
Is beheading still an option? - seems to be out of fashion - except in the Middle East.
Posted by LOVESNATCHEZ (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 1:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"SPEAKUP". What in the world does your comment have to do with this article? Are you criticising the fact the the Baptists tithe lots of money? As you can plainly see, the situation you mentioned has had no effect on First Baptist Church of Natchez (monetarily speaking). So, what was your point?
Posted by iluvntz2 (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
There was an asbestos issue with the bulding. Are any of the local companies capable (licensed, trained, whatever is required) of dealing with asbestos? I am not trying to start something, I really do not know the answer to this.
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Now that we've reconciled the Catholics and the Protestants, I'd like to know if the National Park Service and the Historic Foundation have been granted special dispensations to maintain delapidated structures in Natchez.
:)
Posted by speakup (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 2:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
was referning to fact the fbc could have bought it back and restored it. i was baptized there. did not mean any thing about tiding
Posted by natchez1 (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)
pbnj
You are correct that it was her building to do what she liked with items contained inside (or even the windows) but the city does have the right to expect certain standards of ownership.
You have to maintain the appearence, it has to be secure and it has to be safe. None of those things were done for years with FBC - and they are not being done with Arlington.
The city has every right to try and get Tom to do something with Arlington. They should have done that years ago with FBC.
The city though should not penalize new owners for the sins of the former owners.
It appears that the members of the City Planning Department and the Preservation Commision were clueless to the real condition of the building and it was only when the windows were removed that they saw its true condition. They seem to think that the windows being removed made the roof collapse. I went to all the meetings between Dream Homes and the City and it was clear that the Preservation Commision never understood how bad the building was: and did not understand that the entire roof structure had to be removed - tiles, beams, gutters, facica boards, gable ends, etc.
The building needed an entire new roof structure and Dream Homes brought in their architect and a company that was working on the new roof design - allowing an Atrium over the former sanctuary. It could have been lovely.
Posted by LOVESNATCHEZ (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hi "speakup",, ok, i got it now. I too was baptized there but when we sold it, we sold it. It ceased to be a church. If we had wanted to restore it, we wouldn't have built a 13 million dollar complex on Devereaux. We didn't have suffiecient parking downtown. Think about if you sold your home and 30 years later someone else owned (and let it fall down), and the local people thought YOU should be the one to fix it. It's the same analogy. I've had a few people criticize the Baptist's for letting this happen; they are no longer my friends because they JUST DIDN'T GET IT. Have a great day.
Posted by ptrsdoe (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 8:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The Pecan Factory was demolished, now First Baptist Church. What property will be next? Might as well have let the northerners burn it to the ground years ago then there would be nothing to worry about. Oh fiddly dee!
Posted by happyreader (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 9 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ptrsdoe, nothing in this world lasts forever. The old FBC site served its function, and it had become a danger. It's sad, but it needed to go. I'm glad St. Mary will make use of that property, and I'm also very thankful that nobody lost their life because of an unsound building in the middle of town.
Posted by ptrsdoe (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 9:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks happyreader. It is sad when I come home to visit to see how things are changing. I noticed on the bypass how the grass had overgrown the curbs and how unkept the streets are. I know the tax base has dwindled which is used for public works. Since I am no longer a resident but a visitor I can see the decay. There is so much beauty in Natchez, she deserves better care.
Posted by grewupnatchez (anonymous) on October 28, 2009 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ptrsdoe, if you're so worried about preserving Natchez then why don't you move back here and spend your tax dollars here to help out. We can't give better care when everyone moves away. You left, don't complain. The decay of the city is partly your fault.
Posted by DuncanPark (anonymous) on October 28, 2009 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Re: grewupnatchez
Lack of adequate doctor availability
heads my list of why I'll never (willingly) return to Natchez.
Add the fact that there is no local air or train travel service and substandard public schools to my why not reasons.
Also, for me personally, as a big movie fan, I could never be happy having to watch films in the loathesome local movie theatre.
Posted by dixiecrat (anonymous) on October 28, 2009 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh, what a Great Day for Natchez (Not)! Long Live Historic Preservation in Natchez! When does a building become historically significant enough to merit somebody doing something about it? Lots of folks said FBC wasn't really a historic property -- it was only built in 1921. What if some well-meaning developer of, say, the 1882 Natchez building boom said that about all those old pre-1861 (read "antebellum") buildings? Out with the old, in with the new -- right?! Geez, the hypocrisy and mypoia around here is simply staggering.
Posted by dixiecrat (anonymous) on October 28, 2009 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh, yeah -- and I loved all the sectarian bickering! I knew we liked things old timey around here, but that's seriously "old school" -- the Catholics are tearing down Protestant churches! Run -- they're bringing back the Spanish Inquisition, too! Where's the "Know Nothing" Party when we need it? Maybe we can revive the local chapter!
Posted by grewupnatchez (anonymous) on October 28, 2009 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
DuncanPark, guess what, we're an hour from Baton Rouge and 2 hours from Jackson. They have good doctors and movie theaters. Or, just watch the movies online. You can find movies that are still in theaters online..for free. I seem to manage with my doctors here in town just fine. If I don't, I've got a car and I'll drive 90 miles to Baton Rouge. Your reasons are bogus.
Posted by Continental_Line (anonymous) on October 28, 2009 at 8:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The Catholic / Protestant problem started when the Pope & Henry VIII
argued over the definition of a "Speed Bump" vs. a "Speed Hump" .
Posted by DavidLambert (anonymous) on October 29, 2009 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't live in Natchez anymore but when I do visit I would always ride by the old FBC building because it was filled with many good memories from my youth. I still enjoy telling stories about some of the things we did as kids inside that old building.
Posted by SandraSue (anonymous) on October 29, 2009 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Just wondering if the old theaters are still standing. Are the Ritz and Baker Grande still there?
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on October 29, 2009 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
SandraSue, the Ritz is nothing but the front facade. And that is boarded up with awful green plywood. The inside is open to the world with bricks, plants/trees and trash. It is a terrible blight right in the center of town. I still get the Baker and Clark mixed up and don't remember which was which. One of 'em is still there but I don't know what's inside of it or the condition.
Posted by LOVESNATCHEZ (anonymous) on October 29, 2009 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Lordy "sandrasue", where have you been for the last 40 years? lol... the Baker Grande was torn down that long ago. The Clark is still on Main st. , boarded up, it should go too.
City Hall sits where the Grande was.
Posted by been_there (anonymous) on October 29, 2009 at 5:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Grewupnatchez. You say Baton Rouge is 90 miles from Natchez but say it takes you an hour to drive? That's really cruising!!
Posted by SandraSue (anonymous) on October 29, 2009 at 6:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I grew up in Natchez and attended Braden and Natchez High, before moving to Arizona in 1970.I just can't resist reading these blogs about my old home town.
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