Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on August 27, 2008 at 11:06 p.m.

There is a teenage girl in Canada who had a spot on her lung. Once they saw the spot they told her she needed a scan. Thinking she was going to another room, they said "no" your appointment for the scan is in four months. The parents asked if the spot would grow. They said probably. They asked what would they do if the scan showed it to be bigger. They said schedule her an appointment with a specialist....in about four more months.

Great Britain and Canada have shown what will happen when the government gets involved in health care. It's horrible. The government has a lot of hubris to tell me that they can run health care whenever they already squandered my social security for my retirement. I believe in Adam Smith's idea of laisezz-faire (msp?) which will allow competition to create a great health care system. There are enough regulations as it is which stifles the flourishment of our system.

BTW: These forty some odd million Americans without health care that the democrats keep harping on: it is a blatant lie. Over ten million of those are illegal aliens, not Americans.

Posted by bombingeight (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 1:54 a.m.

and then there are many cases where Americans cannot obtain health care.... Having lived in the UK and used the health service for me and my family, the problem occurs when the government takes over the healthcare system and the healthcare professionals are on the government payroll. Waiting times for elective procedures increases, but primary healthcare is improved. There are countries that have designed systems that combine the best of both worlds- Switzerland, Germany, Taiwan, as examples.

Not all goods and services were intended or appropriate to be controlled by free-market economics.

Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 5:53 a.m.

Just ask yourself. Why do Americans get screwed and have to pay more for drugs than anyone else in the world--FOR THE SAME DRUGS? R&D? Or corporate greed?

Also, all the lies and untruths that buying your drugs from Canada means risks--no one can guaranty the quality.

That is BALONEY. Is Merck, or Eli Lilly, or Astellas selling shoddy drugs in Canada and people dropping dead right and left up there? BS!

Don't buy the hype and fear put out by American corporations trying to screw Americans. Yes you are getting screwed by your fellow Americans.

Did you enjoy it? Have a cigarette.

Posted by destiny (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 5:59 a.m.

Thanks to the top two posters. Well said. I say do away completely with health care insurance, that will bring down the cost of health care where people can afford it. Insurance is nothing but a bottomless abyss. Taking money from the American people and then DREAMING UP ways not to pay out. Insurance in any form is the ruination of our nation. If all the money spent on insurance was invested elsewhere, one could afford health care or anything else they hold an insurance policy on. Insurance companies are taking away everything the hard working people work for. Look what they did for the victims of Katrina. Most of them are still homeless while holding on to their insurance policies. Just my opinion. To some I'm sure it sounds stupid. Some might agree. Just think about it. I once had an uncle who sold insurance and he laughed all the way to the bank.

Posted by kpage1 (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 6:52 a.m.

Insurance is a legalized rip-off. It can be useful for a few making claims, but for the rest of us, it's useless. Also, if you have to make a claim, they're top-notch at finding a reason not to pay. I would rather stash the money I pay on my premium every month and use it for possible home and auto damages, and doctor visits. It's better than paying some company who's itching to rook me.

On the other hand, if (Lord forbid) I get sick or injured, I will be in dire straights if I don't have insurance. Shucks.

The folk I feel THE worst about are the elderly who have to pay the light bill instead of getting their medicines. Shame.

Posted by kpage1 (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 6:56 a.m.

...and the disabled. They tend to be ignored too often.

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 8:25 a.m.

The first two post are correct. People die wait to see a doctor in countries with Socialized medicine. Southside what's wrong with publicly traded companies making a profit, isn't it an obligation to their stock holders. Didn't they invest their time and money on developing the drug without knowing if the FDA would approve it. Do you want them to just give you the medicine? I guess the oil companies should give gas away too. You mentioned R&D, Research and Development doesn't end when a drug finally makes it to the street why should the profit. I don't think you're being screwed by American corporations, they have to protect their investment. I don't think all the drugs in Canada are bad but you really don't have any recourse should you get some that are bad. What do you do then SUE the creedy US company. Destiny we can't do away with insurance.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 9:35 a.m.

Here we go again...the socialist revolution in full swing. There are options for people without employer offered plans that do not involve the government, you can inexpensively purchase a high deductible policy in conjunction with a health savings account. You save the money tax free and only use it to meet your high deductible if needed or for other medical reasons. If you are relatively healthy, the money will grow tax free into your retirement years. There are of course people that do not take insurance, even if it's offered through their employer and people that do not work and live on welfare. Between these folks and the failure of the court system to protect our doctors from the sue happy society we live in, medical care has become increasingly more expensive throughout the years.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 9:58 a.m.

Do doctors have the right to ask in their questionaires if you've ever sued anyone when you go there on a first visit and are filling out your information sheets, and then refuse to see you if you answer yes? Do doctors have the right to have you sign a form that releases them from any wrongdoing should problems arise from their treatment?

I know that my health insurance premiums are less a month than what I would have to pay for my prescription drugs without the insurance.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 10:03 a.m.

There are people who don't have any insurance and don't go to the doctor because they can't afford to pay for the visit, so they just suffer thru until they get better or die from lack of medical care.

When I was a kid, we had health clinics for minor illnesses and they also issued prescription drugs along with vaccines.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 10:14 a.m.

Barack Obama knows that America can not be strong abroad unless we are first strong at home. People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example, than by the example of our power. (Bill Clinton)

Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 10:53 a.m.

Sure you can buy health insurance and get a higher deductible and then use your medical health savings account to pay the cost difference. Certainly.

Of course if you are a low wage earner and don't make enough money to fund your medical health savings account to offset you deductible, then just go to the emergency room for your medical care and all the folks with insurance will get to pay your bill anyway.

So how is universal healthcare worse?

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 11:08 a.m.

I do not want my health insurance to be the same as every other person in the US, working or non-working. I choose the plan I want to participate in through what is offered by my employer and I have VERY good insurance. Why should I suffer with a lower quality plan because the democrats want to socialize healthcare.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 11:49 a.m.

I think there is a widespread misunderstanding about about what health care reform means.

Some political types want to misrepresent health care reform and call it SOCIALIZATION to scare people or make the idea easy to hate. Big Medicine is already involved in government regulation that keeps medicine prices high, and stabilizes the buisiness of insurance, so the idea of regulation is something already approved. If there wasn't government regulation you would be paying more like what the rest of the world pays for pharmaceuticals -- about half.

Health care has already been socialized, through the VA, Medicare and Medicaid. This gigantic sector of our society is already benefitting, and affects the price of everything. One gigantic problem with regulation today is that the GOP would not craft laws that allowed the government to bargain for medicine prices in many markets they serve, preferring instead to let industry charge what they want to their largest customer.

A large number of the rest of us pay for insurance and deductible straight up, and a large number pay through group plans through work or organizations.

And finally there is that percentage that has no health care. We all presently pay for the poor care they get through higher medical and insurance costs when these people go to the hospital or clinics, public hospitals and charity hospitals.

Democratic proposals fall far short of state run health care that would mandate the end of traditional plans. The highest wish is to include everyone, the next tier is to reduce health care costs with policies instead of using government to raise costs. We can do that but not with the industry controlling regulation.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 12:03 p.m.

Let me add frankly if you listen to the Republicans you will hear one lie after another designed to keep you confused so that industry can continue to give congressmen payola to control government regulation of health care.

Bad drugs from Canada, the wisdom of the free market, the superiority of US care, horror stories about Soviet-style socialized medicine -- all are lies designed by people who know exactly what they are doing designed to misinform people and steal their votes through fear.

Posted by Chase (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 1:22 p.m.

Swapmeet, have you ever been to Canada? Certainly, there are people there who complain about their healthcare system. But, if you ask them if they would like to trade their system with ours, the answer is an astounding "NO"!

When I lived in Thailand, I paid out of pocket for first-class medical treatment. Many of the doctors there were trained right here in the US. They offer affordable treatment, affordable medicines and first rate patient care and they are a "third-world" country. Can the US say that they care for their citizens like that?

Throughout my travels, unfortunately, I've had to visit hospitals in Thailand, Spain, Singapore and Canada, all of which offers better healthcare than the US. All of which, I simply paid out of pocket and a few times the costs were so minute, I felt like leaving a tip for the doctors.

Now, if the citizens in the US weren't so greedy, as someone mentioned, we wouldn't mind the minor raise in taxes to make sure we were ALL covered. Instead, we would rather cut our noses off to spite our faces, than know we have given a few dollars to makes sure our fellow Americans are taken care of.

In the case as it is with a lot of us...well, a lot of you, there is something missing that keeps you from realizing the basic rule of life. And that rule is 'we live for others.' If we had a billion dollars, all in twenties and we lived on our own island, one mile by one mile, what good would the billion dollars do us if we had no contact with other people? Because we need other people to live, we need to live for others.

Swapmeet, it's a sad state of affairs! I'm sorry you feel the way you do. Let's hope you have a 'fountain of youth' in your backyard, where you never have to depend on others as you grow older and helpless.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 3:22 p.m.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/o...

Interesting read, simply stating facts not fantasies.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 4:10 p.m.

Well Bunny, Bush wanted to overhaul Social security and had no Plan and it failed because he was one of the few that wanted to bankrupt the existing system.

They did have a plan to change laws and district lines to make themselves a permanent Republican majority in congress. They got as far as Texas and the guy who was the mastermind got busted. And the other mastermind quit because he was about to get busted.

At least Barack's idea is popular. Your article starts out telling what poor health care the "free" market model has produced so far, then proceeds to act like nobody can improve on it.

Details are something you work out in congress. Barack's plan so far is good, and the job is not impossible. That article you cited on the other hand is designed only for people already stuck on the ideas that are in it.

You need to kick up the quality of your surfing. Do what I do and read the enemy's blogs. It makes you smarter, not dumber, to do that.

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 4:55 p.m.

huhuh, it's funny that you'd say that certain articles are for people who believe the content. In the same token you don't believe because you don't want too. Your mind is set as well. I will ask you a question how is he going to pay for this. I have insurance and I don't to be forced to pay for anyone elses.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 5:38 p.m.

Well fuzzmonkey I have made up my mind because I have close connections to health care and I see it every day.

You are already paying for uninsured people's medical care. They go to hospitals and free clinics and are treated without charge, and the facilities raise their prices on all of us that pay, including your insurance company. Or they petition government agencies and get tax money that we get taxed to provide. Some of the people without insurance just sit home and die, but not most.

That is one reason our medical costs are higher than anyone else's, that and the fact that so many congressmen are in bed with pharmaceutical and insurance companies and prop up their prices.

Funnybunny's sources are almost all sites that are so slanted that they are what we in the south have called "preaching to the choir". It's much more interesting reading what those who oppose you say, if you want to learn fast.

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 5:58 p.m.

Okay lets not split hairs here. I understand my tax dollars pay for many things including the WELFARE of others, but you still didn't answer my question. How does Obama plan to pay for this? I think we are taxed enough and there's only so much tax money coming in. So is he going to rob Peter to pay Paul? Or is he going to tax the hell out of us. Please explain.

I'm fortunate to have good insurance, the company I work for will not allow you to opt out unless you can show proof of insurance elsewhere. Many people say they can't afford it, but I say how can you not have it. I'm not talking about the elderly or folks on fixed incomes, I'm talking about working people. most of the people I know that don't have insurance choose too and then they justify it by saying they can't afford it. These same people are overweight, they drink and smoke. They go out and play too much. They have cars they can't afford. They eat lunch at local fast food places everyday. I guess what I'm saying is their priorities aren't where they should be. Now it's not my place to tell them how to spend their money but it sure isn't my place to help insure them.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 6:48 p.m.

I have no desire to split hairs Fuzz, I did without insurance for 20 years, even with a family. I have taken my baths to pay hospitals and doctors out of pocket for sick kids and myself. I now have good insurance but I know how it is on both sides.

This election thing is getting to where there are always folks wanting to give you thinking shortcuts and get you to vote based on whether your candidate is good as American pie and that is not the issue, because you don't get the man you get the party. The truth is in the details. We know how the Republican thing works and it doesn't for the common worker, no matter the rhetoric and the flag-waving.

You need to read what Obama says about this subject.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/health...

Making health care affordable is a very complex task, but it has not really been the priority of the government to make health care more affordable as a campaign issue, until now. Every time it has been tried in congress lobbyists for the industry have derailed the best changes, and this is just a problem with Republican free market policies, no matter how much sense they seem to make when talked about. The industry stops reform.

We all use the wisdom of the marketplace, but we are presently playing a rigged game of regulation set up to make things expensive. All those extra dollars we waste are considered having a robust economy.

The federal government wastes a lot of money on payola projects, a fact both parties will agree on. Your question might as well be, "What federal expenditures will Obama re-route to health care?" There are plenty of areas, but it takes more space than here to explore them.

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 8:44 p.m.

You've been non-responsive on both you're answers. Just like I thought you would. He's a tell you what you think you want to kind of guy. Here's his plan he doesn't have one and most of the people are falling for it.

Posted by Kaintuck (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 9:13 p.m.

I watched a very hardworking buddy I used to play football with in high school, waste away due to a melanoma that got out of hand, because he didn't have health insurance. Greg often worked construction, and sometimes as an apartment complex maintenance guy, and as a mechanic at a farm implement dealer. He was one of the most affable and congenial souls I have ever known; he would give you the shirt off of his back, a meal, or anything else he had. I visited him when I found out he was in hospice care a couple of times, and found out he died when I went back a third time. Since then, my opinion on affordable health care has changed - America needs it!

Posted by scarlettohara (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 9:57 p.m.

Thank you Kaintuck, for that comment. And, I'm very sorry to hear about your friend.

It's very easy for those who have great (or even mediocre) insurance to see this as a non-issue. I'm here to tell you that my mind has been changed in the last few years.
My husband and I both work full time jobs and have children in school. We have insurance now, but there was a period of time for about a year and a half where we did not. We didn't qualify for medicaid but we couldn't afford the insurance....Pardon me, Fuzzmonkey, but I like for my family to eat and have a roof over our heads....affordable insurance was not an option unless we chose to live in a carboard box. Also, no one in my family is overweight or lazy. We CERTAINLY don't "go out and play" because there is no extra income for such a luxury. We work hard, and our children are expected to do chores so that a work ethic is instilled.

Sorry, but I get steaming mad when I hear people make comments such as yours. I'm glad you have never been in the situation my family has, and I honestly hope that you never have to face anything like we have.

Posted by scarlettohara (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 10:03 p.m.

Also....for the record, Fuzzmonkey...unless you've been living under a rock for your entire life, ALL politicians are a "tell you what you think you want to kind of guy". It's the nature of the beast (politics, that is). Let's not get hypocritcal here. It'll be all sunshine and roses from McCain come Republican convention time.

Posted by bombingeight (anonymous) on August 28, 2008 at 11:36 p.m.

This is my opinion and long experience here and abroad: Our specialist care is the best and the most expensive in the world. Our primary care and child care is seriously lacking. Our drug expenses are prohibitive until the drugs become generic ( and the pharmaceutical companies spend more on marketing than research). Universal care, which does not mean there is no choice of providers or hospitals, is absolutely essential, and we are smart enough to keep the best of specialist care and truly provide good primary care. It's just time to stop being afraid of change and to take control of our future.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 7:45 a.m.

Now fuzzmonkey, I have NOT been "nonresponsive".

I think the message you gave the rest of us was that you've got yours and you aren't going to lift a finger to even look at the options.

I'll repeat what bombingeight said:

"It's just time to stop being afraid of change and to take control of our future."

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 8:20 a.m.

I'm sure everyone has sad stories like the one above I lost my father in April, he was retired military, he spent 30 years serving his country, he had great insurance. Sounds like Greg could of had insurance as well. most people don't make insurance a priority in there lives until they wake up and have to have it. If Gregg was as hard working as you say I sure he could have found a way to pay for insurance. Most others could as well. Scarlet I didn't say EVERYONE WAS FAT AND LAZY. I was making a point, The is America land of the free, FOR NOW. We make choices and most people who don't have insurance choose too. They'd rather buy things that they don't really need, but they will need insurance at some point. People now days would rather sit around and fuss about how bad things are and wait for the government to bail them out. They should get out an make a difference in their community. People can help this country be a better place, not one man. I guess it wouldn't bother so much if Obama wasn't a Socialist. He wants to take more from the rich and give it to the poor. This is the land of opportunity it's up to you to make the most of it and you can't do that waiting on the government.

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 8:37 a.m.

By letting the government implement a universal health care system are you actually allowing someone else to control you future? You're so right I am afraid changes like that.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 9:12 a.m.

You're not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, are you?

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 9:18 a.m.

Yeahuhuh, originally you could debate in a reasonable manner. You have now become rude and condescending, why...because people are making valid points that you cannot answer so you lash out. Why don't you GO AWAY like sentas did or stop with all the accusations and name calling. TRY to make an intelligent argument for your position or zip it.

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 9:26 a.m.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, even you. But I haven't personally insulted you or anyone else. I disagree and leave it at that. You hide behind huhuhuhuh and end the end you insult people, now how sad it that.

If the people in this country sit around and put all their hopes on the back of one man, WE, me and you huhuh are in a world of hurt. He can't fix the things he says he can because he has no plan or the experience to do it. He can tax us more, disarm us, he can promise to pull out of Iraq, he can stand in front of people and read speeches written for him. He can make promises that he'll never deliver. How is this different from McCain. Well he probably won't do a whole lot either but he won't put a bullseye on our back by reducing the military and he won't tax the hell out us.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 9:39 a.m.

Oh chill out you two and have a sense of humor.

You calling Obama a socialist is a slanderous lie. That's not DEBATE! And what he proposes is not socialism. If government can help to screw you over like it does now, then it can help to do the opposite.

If Obama is a socialist then Bush is a fascist, and you don't see the other side whining that to get their way by saying that.

Be a grown up and tell the truth if you don't want people to joke about your intellect!!!

It's obvious fuzz that other folks see you as too scared, or too something to even bother to look at the specifics. That's why your only defense seems to be you are terrified about what someone told you was socialism.

Obama is not a communist . Obama is not a socialist. Obama does not want to nationalize the health care industry. Obama wants to tweak the things the government already does and do it in favor of citizens, not corporations. Now don't get insulting -- to anyone -- with your labels and I won't question your intelligence.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 10:03 a.m.

PS -- And you can question my intelligence any time you want to, He,he!

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 10:05 a.m.

No calling him a Socialist is my opinion, I like you are entitled to that. He has crazy socialists friends. A crazy radical pastor that feeds hate and the United States. He wants to do what all Democrats have done in the past. This isn't change it's more of the same. Do you know he voted with his party 100% of the time. Are the Democrats always right. McCain only voted with his party 90% of the time. Who FOLLOWED his party every time and which wasn't SCARED, your words, to look at both sides of the issues.

Since I'm too something in your mind to bother to look at the specifics please explain how Obama plans to pay for his health care program and be specific. Since you know the specifics tell me the facts, not your opinion. I've asked this from you a couple of times and you've been non-responsive. I think the real answer is he doesn't know and you don't either.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 10:14 a.m.

I think the real answer is that you are the one who is happy not knowing and won't click and read where I told you to.

As long as you don't know, you can call him a socialist and you don't have to think any more about it. That's obvious, and you said as much.

Problem is, your desperate plan leaves 20% of the people uninsured and begging for care, then getting it in a way that costs us all. That's not good enough for the majority of Americans and it should not be good enough for you.

Posted by Teach4Peace (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 10:19 a.m.

Yeahuhuh, BRILLIANT! Complete and totally brilliant posts here as well as ones with REASON. I love the buzz words socialism, etc that get conveniently tossed out. The truth of the matter is, in one of the richest, most touted progressive countries in the world, you do have people who can't afford healthcare! Now, if I were to take some of your positions here, I could say that I have ALWAYS had good insurance coverage offered by my employers. I always took advantage of this. This however is NOT the case for everyone. Screw high deductibles. They are for people who NEVER have any health issues. I am afraid for some of you and hope you should NEVER have to have a health crises in your entire life, because you will then see exactly what a rip off the health industry is! From the scientists who should have found cures by now for a lot of these "diseases," to the pharmaceutical companies making money hand over fist for drugs that years later, are being found to kill folk.

Question, help me here. Is Medicaid not available to those who "fall through the cracks?"

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 10:50 a.m.

Like before non-responsive.

I'm sure the the hip hop superstar, I mean Obama will be just as gracious when McCain has his night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4KIvRTg6...

Posted by npc (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 11:31 a.m.

We can argue this point till the ends of time and could never come to the same conclusion. However, their are some who believe that you are responsible for yourself (in good times and bad) and others that believe you are responsible for yourself until it gets bad. I am the person that believes that you are responsible for yourself all the time. Our country was founded on the freedom to take care of yourself. We as a country have completely lost site of that. People in the US have become so comfortable that we really don't know what struggle is all about. We are willing to give up our freedoms to be comfortable. Ask yourself, what does government do well at all, besides the military. I don't know if any of you have any dealings with government. I deal with it on a regular basis. Thier is not a time that I don't want to jump through the phone and put a choke hold on the person on the other end. Government has NO common sense. Why would some of you think that government would run healthcare any better? Let's look at the reasons why healhcare has gotten so high. One reason is law suites. People die that's a fact. You take people to the hospital to TRY and prevent it. If the out come isn't good, you can bank on it that someone is going to sue. The government has allowed this. Our courts have made us all of victims, it is always someone elses fault. If you are not in healthcare, then you don't realize how much government regulations are already in the system. Well it take employees to handle all of these regualtions. How many people do you think the hospitals employee that have nothing to do with healthcare. Their is a web of mess that employees are dealing with. If hospitals could employee mostly people to take care of you, cost would go down. Also, you have way to many people abusing the system. People didn't use to go to the doctor or hospital with 100 fever, a head ache, throwing-up. Offices are full of Medicaid or people that have no intention to pay, for things that they could get accross the counter or stay home and live through it. I have health insurance, but I know people that make more money than me and choose to spend their money on other things. Don't get me wrong. I realize that their are people that out right can't afford insurance. If the government would allow people to right insurance off of their taxes as business are allowed to do, this would help. Sure our system needs some tweeking, but have government take it over, scares the HELL out of me. I like being in control of my life. Apparently some of you don't mind giving up control. This is a very slippery slope. I am sure that they will run it as well as they have run our education system or social security. No thanks, leave me out.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 12:55 p.m.

There seems to be a few folks out there who act like they know the Obama Plan -- total government control of medicine that removes all choices, existing insurance, and the flimsy security that they have now. Yet there is no evidence anywhere that this is Obama's plan. You guys FEAR it is, and won't check it out, have no faith in congress, or anything, and you treat Obama as if he is some sort of God that won't have to fit into all the existing checks and balances.

I do think this issue is very important. Is Obama the one who is trying to mislead or is being misleading, or is it the people who accuse him of a socialist takeover of medicine? Or is this just some incredible fear of the commies, surfacing like a pimple?

You know guys, we are not even talking about the issue of health care. We are talking about your fears of socialism. We aren't even talking about socialism, we are talking about fear.

And because of your fears of socialism you want to give up your control of government and you just HAVE to keep the crooks that are there now? The ones who spent more than the big bad spenders they warned you about? The ones who ran us farther into debt than all the others combined???? The responsible, American non-socialists who accidentally spent us bankrupt when we let them hold the checkbook?

WOW, talk about petrified by your fears!!! You have scared yourselves into no control at all!! That ain't manly, fellas.

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 1:16 p.m.

Why would you vote for someone who's spiritual leader of 20 years is Rev. Wright. Why would you vote for someone who has ties to the leader of the Weatherman. You can say they just sat on a board together. BS !!! Obama isn't an innovative leader of the people he's a follower. He speaks of change yet he votes 100% within party lines. His own running mate said he wasn't qualified for the job.

I read your link. He plans to take the money from expired Bush tax cuts. It's states that this will only partially fund the program. It states the other money comes from the great savings his plan is going to create. Sounds like more taxes to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72B3tUAqp...

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 2:15 p.m.

If you don't like socialist, how about Marxist...that fits!

INDIVIDUALS have the responsibility to take care of the poor NOT governments…each person is responsible for himself and his family, then if he can't make it, his other family members should step in, then friends, then church organizations. If none of those can help then, as a last resort, the government is there. If we had these values, there would be no need to forcefully take obscene percentages of successful people's income from them.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 2:29 p.m.

And if you can show me even ONE verse in the King James version of the Bible where it says that governments should tax their citizens more to help the poor, I'll swallow the Bible whole, join the democrat party right now, donate 50% of my income to the federal government, and do bake sale fundraisers for Barack Obama.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 2:33 p.m.

I can answer those questions pretty quickly.

Church is social more than spiritual for most folks. The three Baptist preachers I had all got caught in adultery. The Presbyterian preacher I had was asked to leave for being a drunk. My preachers never told me who I had to be, my family liked the church. I chose myself not to be an adulterer or a drunk. And thank God I was not judged by anyone when my preachers fell from grace.

So Obama's fiery preacher? Well go figure. As far as I can tell what the Reverend talked about sounded more real to me than Romney's idea of what God is, though like Obama, I would distance myself from him when he got too excited.

Weathermen? I was raised across the street from a Klan official, and know several upstanding citizens here who interested the FBI back when all of Mississippi harbored murdering terrorists. President Reagan actually funded terrorist movements on two continents and he and father George sent money to Ossama Benladin. Did you speak out against any of that?

Lyndon Johnson lied about an incident and illegally bombed North Vietnam, and president Nixon had us enter Cambodia on the sly and killed people -- I know people who went and still twitch when they think of it. The Weathermen had enough of Vietnam and did something illegal just like their president did. I don't condone anything any of those people did but if I knew them, grew up with them or ever went fishing with them, I would hope that some knuckledragger wouldn't condemn me for it.

Everybody also said Clinton and Kennedy weren't experienced enough, too, and you should pray to your conformist preacher that whoever gets elected this time does as well as they did.

And your paraphrase of the Obama link was impressively and dishonestly incomplete.

And I don't see how you can say that voting with Democrats wouldn't equal change. Where have you been for the last 8 years? Looks like voting with the Republicans would be the way to stop change.

Only 8 of the last 28 years have been with a Democratic Administration, and we both know that to claim that the fix we're in is the work of the Democrats is pretty lame.

It's like if you were hiring someone to run your family business. Your choices are someone who is a bit too kind to the poor on one hand and someone who has just lied and stole from you on the other.

I would send the liar packing. You are too scared your company will go bust from kindness and will send the nice guy packing.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 2:46 p.m.

Funnybunny, it does say you should give Caesar his due, doesn't it? That means what the government says it needs to do, you should obey.

Wikipedia defines in part that statement as saying:

"Some read the phrase “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s” as unambiguous at least to the extent that it commands us to respect state authority and to pay the taxes it demands of us."

You need that Bible. Don't eat it. Just vote for whoever you think Jesus would vote for. He didn't jive with rich folks and money changers too much I don't think.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 2:46 p.m.

McCain selected Sarah Palin as his VP runnin mate, Romney is out of the picture. It's going to be difficuly at best for you Dems to sling mud her direction.

Change? Why sure but change for the detriment of our country.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 2:50 p.m.

By the way...nice Temple last night...subtle...very subtle.

To think McCain ran that very gracious ad for Obama last night and Obama kicked him to the curb.

Posted by presby (anonymous) on August 29, 2008 at 11:43 p.m.

Why would any country,citizen,laborer..everyday worker or taxpayer continue to work and pay for people who choose not to work,have children out of wedlock and or just come to the US to draw pell grants,freebieprograms. Worked with a young guy once, he quit his job at IP. I asked why he quit because he was making a fair living and would move up the line. He said i can go to school and get paid and not have to work. He did that very thing for many years, i don,t he,s working to yet. Just going to school and bumming off of the programs,scamming and jamming. And don,t say it,s just a small amount . It affects every taxpayer. I don,t think they should get a penny if they are able bodied and can work..no nad nothing ..not a cent.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 30, 2008 at 6:36 a.m.

Well that was some good jousting Fuzz and funnybunny. You guys will certainly get points in GOP loyalty heaven, and I am sure you would get a nice pat on the back in most of the rural south.

There is one little problem.

How can you be so immersed in ideology that you fail to notice what your guys have done to the country, the economy, the fuel crisis, and our reputation in the world?

Performance is the anvil upon which ideology is hammered and you guys failed when you got control of government -- and failed miserably.

I think total control of the government for a few years under George W. Bush was a perfect end to the Reagan ideological dynasty that saw PR become a major element of Republican strategy and full time deficit spending your only hope for economic stimulation.

I like the way your ideology sounds for personal living. It's just when it comes to government it is you guys that can't seem to pull it off. If you will go ahead and admit it you will feel better when you lose the election. he,he!

Posted by Teach4Peace (anonymous) on August 30, 2008 at 6:53 a.m.

Again Yeahuhuh, haven't you noticed, they will EXCUSE and look the other way on the condition this country is in now and I just can't believe that people can be so dilusional, almost cult like. Now, if the Dems were in the white house, in control right now, for these last 8 years, you and I know there would be bad mouthing from here to Japan! LOL, it's actually quite commical to read their defenses on such a time that WILL go down in history as one of the most incompetent Presidencies on record. No rhetoric from any of them will change that. We never hear about the wire tapping made "legal" by the concocted " Homeland Security" department. Aren't Republicans supposed to be for little interference from the government in our personal lives?

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 30, 2008 at 8:51 a.m.

Teach I do agree.

I don't think this, for most, is about better government. It is about a cultural and social movement. You will notice how so much of what they say rests on lofty ideological concepts and not the details of their last actions.

They do advance their security with friends and their ideas of self-worth and self-reliance with these buzz words and lofty concepts -- that happens for sure. But when it comes to government they can't even avoid spending worse than their tax and spend enemies -- and that proves what I am saying. By their own standards of austerity they stand convicted. Yet they forget to notice when it's time to step up to the political feed trough.

For most of the time I have been into politics there has been an equasion that the southern white majority uses. I will be honest about this because I was raised to be one of these guys.

BAD = socialist = taxes = blacks = gun control = gays = foreigners = Democrats = anti-God = intellectual = anti-moral.

When it's voting time, any of those things get linked to the rest of them and morphed into the latte-drinking northern queer idiot -- or welfare queen -- they think makes up their political opposition.

Today, you add "muslim" to the black and make the black silent, but the equasion is still really the same. There is no examination possible after you become one of the elements of their chain of thought.

Like me, a lot of people are realizing what a lie it is to look at life and politics in such a pitifully self-serving way. I was taught to do that but it was not honest enough for me, and it is never too late to realize that.

Although it is comfortingly simple and self-inflating to buy into the group therapy their vision has become, these people cannot honestly claim work ethic, austerity, honor or morality as their property, but they try to with almost instinctive fervor.

Political conservatism has come to be a moral entitlement plan that requires no real work of it's participants as they try to make big government and all virtue their property simply by claiming it. The Republican Party has placed itself as their beneficiary, and the richest people in this land have annexed them as part of a marketing scheme to keep costs and profits high.

If they win another 4 years it won't be because I was a nice boy and kept my mouth shut.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on August 30, 2008 at 12:55 p.m.

Sarah Palin knows 1st hand how much we need better and cheaper healthcare . After all , having a Downs Syndrone child has put her in hospitals a lot more than someone that spent half of his past job campaigning for a new one . We need her. This is not about being Democrat or Republican . All Americans are involved .

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 30, 2008 at 1:23 p.m.

Yes Belle but despite her knowing that, she has done a fraction of the work to accomplish it Obama has.

Her free market leanings compel her to keep the system as it is. And her party is against reform.

This is not about being Republican or Democrat. It is about taking power away from a party that has failed us in too many ways for too long.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on August 30, 2008 at 2:43 p.m.

Not everything needs fixing , but everything can be improved . I don't vote for a party . I've been disapointed by Democrats and Republicans . I think we need to move past the party thing . What exactly do you mean by free market ? If that means living in a free democracy and reeping the benifits of that government , isn't that a better place to be ?

Posted by Teach4Peace (anonymous) on August 30, 2008 at 5:53 p.m.

In this case, Palin, free market has NOTHING to do with living in a democracy.

Posted by thetinman (Keith Reynolds) on August 31, 2008 at 1:24 a.m.

To Me, I know when I got injured on the job back in 2001. When I was fired form my job and they covered it so well and said I voluntarily quite my job. The WORTHLESS COMP insurance got to be a nightmare. It took me many years to get to a point to where I could keep down a permanent job.

One can criticize wait times in socialized medical in other industrial nations. What about wait times to get into getting care hear. If you

are injured on the job, a whole new set of laws CAN apply. All depends on the insurance company and your company and all to familiar, previous employer, which found legal ways to get rid of you!!

When I was fired, the insurance company had to approve every thing including injections that may cost more then what was agreed to being paid for that visit. If you need to see another doctor or a follow up visit, it could be months, which I personally can speak from experience, to get next medical exam or therapy or for whatever reason you where referred to before. Besides from the Insurance approving, they had to get approval from my previous employer, who where BTW MOST GENEROUS!!! Yeah right.

I had to FIGHT LIKE "HELL" with all this, so I could get back to working. now in my mid 40's and not to many companies want to deal with you because you don't have a good working record!!! Lots off gaps in the past 5 years.
Took me almost 10 months to get two weeks worth of therapy to get a release from a doctor to go back to work!!!! back in 2004

How about these insurance companies who take there time, then fight you for medical coverage to which they know in time they will have to pay, and people die from lack of medical care. I bet these insurance people are in courts getting ready to go to prison for voluntarily letting someone do with out life saving medical practice because of the OLE MIGHTY DOLOR.

All I got to say to these insurance companies, get it right and be good guys about paying and not denying medical payment, and we will not have so much talk about Socialized Medicine

Someone mentioned about the Bible, all I got to say about the bible, He that doesn't work doesn't eat!!!

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on August 31, 2008 at 10:22 a.m.

I think tinman's story is more common than not. Most of us know something about insurance companies and how too often they will nitpick you to death or deny claims just to make the interest on the money during litigation.

And would someone lecture tinman about the beauty of the free market?

His admonition and warning to the insurance companies is not heeded because time is money and now is the time they can make it. Often, the only recourse is courts, lawyers who want 1/3 of your legal judgement, and a judge that just splits the difference too often. They are an essential part of our present medical care system.

The awful news? Not even Obama is going to stop them, though he stands to raise a finger more than the other side. He does stand to offer alternatives and bring down the cost of care through policies that Republicans will not advance.

Many could profit by realizing that it's not socialism or Ossama Benladin or gay marriage or even poor people aborting themselves that threatens most of our wellbeing -- it is the medical profession and the legal profession using business regulation that is already crafted in their behalf. Many of us could never make enough money to die with anything left.

Even these businesses are not the real problem with our democracy -- it is the people who will secretly bend law in their direction then come to us as if innocent of wrongdoing and ask us to vote for them into office because they support "free enterprise". It is a dishonest claim.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 2, 2008 at 9:42 a.m.

Shame on you for saying things that are just not true.

Posted by Teach4Peace (anonymous) on September 2, 2008 at 4:53 p.m.

ElGoodo, in your opinion, what do you think is this "fix" for America's health care mess? And if you don't think anything should be done, then you have certainly answered a mouthful!

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 4, 2008 at 10:48 a.m.

AMEN ElGoodo!

What is America's healthcare mess? Get a job that provides a healthcare plan. If you choose not to, purchase a high deductible plan and open a health savings account. The other option is to move to a socialist country such as Canada and let the governement take care of you and your healthcare needs. Careful though, you may die before you can get an appointment.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 4, 2008 at 12:52 p.m.

My friend Margot -- a Canadian -- who was recently here working had a minor infection that required hospital outpatient care. She was about to start working for a major chain and was a graduate student, but her insurance had not yet gone through, so she fell though the cracks.

After checking, she said that it would have been cheaper if she had a few days to FLY back to Canada and get treated, then FLY back, but she needed to start work. She said people who talk of the incredible long waits or low quality of Canadian heath care are just wrong.

She said she doesn't know why people talk about that here, unless it's one of those -- hate the Canadians things. "They just must be repeating what they heard someone say, and think that sounds cute," she said.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 4, 2008 at 4:06 p.m.

Perhaps because it's true.

Please thoroughly read the following article, it's a real eye opener:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthC...

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 4, 2008 at 4:40 p.m.

Obama's new campaign slogan...

Change-Because that's all you'll have left when I'm done!

HA-HA-HA gotta love it!

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 4, 2008 at 7:51 p.m.

I noticed in the first lines of that Heritage Foundation Article the following:

"Canada ranks 30th in the world, with the U.S. ranking 38th"

I saw this video that you probably can't misunderstand and I thought of you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnb2IrsU1...

You guys sure are lucky that the Democrats aren't inclined to use Swift Boat techniques, he,he!

Everybody is saying on TV that McCain is going to admit to the party how awful the GOP has performed and try to scare folks into electing him anyway tonite. when they mention 9/11, I bet you a hamburger he doesn't mention they did it for reprisal against the killing that Reagan and Bush did -- he'll act like we were totally innocent.

You also need to check out this AP article on how honest Palin was, and Preacher Huckabee, about the cheerleader tales they told those cattle at the convention. Huckabee didn't tell the truth at all -- a whopper is what AP called it. It's priceless:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_o...

Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on September 4, 2008 at 8:16 p.m.

Thanks for the LEFT post...how about a contradictory view.

http://www.conservativetruth.org/article...

Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on September 4, 2008 at 8:20 p.m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY5CQnOn7...

Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on September 4, 2008 at 8:24 p.m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H64yKJhB5...

Posted by e34 (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 10:08 a.m.

The hard-working middle class people are sooooo F***ING SCREWED if Obama gets in. Taxes already kill my paycheck, any more and i'll have to get a second job. And no one is going to take my guns away from me unless they pry them from my cold dead hands. WAKE UP PEOPLE, McCain wants to work for the country to make it better, he has the record to show his words are true, while all Obama wants to do is work for himself and show that a black can get into office. He could care less for this country, when the other day he took the American Flag off his plane and right after he said that this country is great, but it needs change.......

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 10:16 a.m.

Yeahuhuh, ask your friend Margot about retirement homes in Canada. Isn't it true that they are close to impossible to find? From what I heard from an extremely reliable source (a Doctor from Canada who chose to practice in the US BECAUSE of Canada's horrible healthcare system), some older folks have to wait IN A HOSPITAL BED up to 6 YEARS to enter a retirement home! He also said that the healthcare system in Canada is great if someone just has a simple cold, what what about treatments for Cancer? Ask Margot about where people get Chemotherapy and how long they have to wait. Also ask Margot about how long it takes just to get an MRI done there?
Sure healthcare there is free, but don't close down the arguement due to one person named Margot who says everyone in the US is wrong. I would trust what a Canadian doctor (with degrees from Canada) over a civilian named Margot.

Sentas, you are all so cruel. McCain has earned the right to lead this country, FOR GOD'S SAKE, HE WAS A PRISONER OF WAR FOR ALMOST 5 YEARS! THe point being made with airing the twin towers is this country still needs to fight for its freedom, PERIOD. If you dont agree with that, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. You say fear is the only thing republicans have to go on, WHAT IN THE H*** does Obama have to go on? He hasn't even earned the right to be a mayor or even a governor, much less a president!!!! All he has to go on is WORDS, which is the same thing you and I are spitting out. You can insult me all you want, but you cannot deny the hard cold facts, even though I am sure you will.
Maybe fear is what this country needs. We whine and complain because our air conditioners do not work or because we don't have the money to pay for new tires on our cars while other people in this world have absolutely NOTHING. SPOILED AMERICANS, and it is getting worse.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 10:29 a.m.

Yeah Sentas -- notice how notformnatchez zipped back that foul-mouthed hateful rag copy link after I offered links to the rabbit on two pieces, one AP news article and another clips only of McCain contradicting himself on the same screen -- not speech mixups, outright contradictions he expressed as absolutely true. You ought to read that hateful sputum on that rag. It is priceless.

I have gotten to where I don't even like to hang socially with Republicans. Battle, battle, battle, and ignore reason. They are so offensive and cowardly, and them acting like everything is other people's fault after holding all the keys to the store so long just makes me think they are stupid and all crooked.

I am only talking about the die-hards who would not vote any other than Republican even if they found out Bush was Benladin with a mask on. No lie is too much to shame them if they are the ones that are saying it.

I think you can see the pattern by now. These guys can't think without their hateful mentors giving them something to mouth. I guess if you have to kill a hundred thousand people or so overseas to feel safe in the US it shows what kind of person you are. They just don't get it.

On a more subject-oriented note in this thread, what about people who grab the title "pro-life" but they will stomp and spit and do anything to keep the folks that can't afford health insurance from getting it? One of the many contradictions of their failing ideology of government and something I see as a soul problem. They do fine watching out for themselves -- they should stick with what they love and stay out of government.

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 10:31 a.m.

Thank you e34! Very well said. Taxes will increase if Obama gets into office and basically will go to people who are too lazy to work. Where is the money from this healthcare system Obama encourages going to come from? US! We are the ones who are already paying taxes for so many lazy Americans. Critics have stated that since the Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty, "the welfare programs encourage illegitimacy and dependency". I have also read that "many people believe that welfare encourages its recipients to become dependent on government support and remain unemployed".

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_pove...

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_7615...

Say what you want Sentas, but $354 billion dollars annually seems to be a lot of money to me.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 10:41 a.m.

Obamayamama -- You guys lie to much. I'm sorry we are taking away your keys to the stockroom. And be quiet or you will get a spanking.

Here is a clip from the AP article linked above on how she lied at the convention. I want you to work on this all day and tell me how the article means that she petitioned the government for give-aways of $3,857 for each and every citizen of Wasilla, ABOVE earned income credit, social security, government pensions, Medicare, Medicaid, VA and all that, and then was sweet enough to tell us how she vetoed wasteful spending and fought earmarks. Even hired a lobbyist. $27 million for a town of 7,000.

That's enough per-capita to break the federal government if all of us did that.

_______

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

_________

Now, don't write back till you understand what that means. Like I said we are taking your keys to the stockroom. Your mama should have told you about hanging with kids who lie. he,he!

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 10:45 a.m.

Yeahuh: People that can't afford healthcare CAN get it. My family did not have healthcare my entire growing up years (which were in Natchez, MS, go figure). But when I had to have my appendix out, it was done. When my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer and had to go get chemotherapy once a week and radiation once a day, IT WAS DONE. We had no money to pay for anything. But you know what, we made it. Unfortunately my mother did not, but the type of cancer was rare and extremely aggresive with a cancer which had a survival rate of less than 10%.

http://www.eraseibc.com/33201.html?*sess...

Truth is hospitals write off balances if left unpaid. That is why it costs so much for healthcare in the first place. Medicaid recipents more often than not abuse their free healthcare by going to the nearest ER when they have a butter knife cut on their finger (or if they even have gas) rather than trying to find a family practitioner. Just go and ask any nurse that works at an ER and they will tell you. Some even come in just to GET FREE ROOM AND BOARD! What do you think will happen if this healthcare system goes into effect? The costs will not decrease, BUT OUR TAXES WILL because so many people will abuse the system

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 10:54 a.m.

YEAHUH TELL ME ONE SINGLE LIE I HAVE SAID ON ANY OF THESE COMMENTS! Palin is the Vice President Nominee, YEAHUHUH, NOT THE PRESIDENT NOMINEE!!! Quit trying to find dirty laundry, and start looking at the future of this country.

OBAMA IS LYING WHEN HE SAYS HE WILL MAKE THIS COUNTRY FREE FROM FOREIGN OIL IN TEN YEARS!!!!!!

THERE IS NO WAY THIS COULD HAPPEN WHEN EVERYTHING WE USE EVERYDAY IS AFFILIATED WITH PETROLEUM!!!!!! THAT IS A FACT!!!!!

OBAMA IS LYING!!! And you are dumb enough to believe in that nonsense. ALSO, if his insane healthcare policy goes into effect, WHERE IS THAT MONEY GOING TO COME FROM?????

IDIOT! You tell me I will get a spanking when you should get a beating for believing everything will be better. SURE everything will change, and we are going feel it!

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 10:57 a.m.

That's great. Life is not all black or white yomama.

The most important truth is that people who have no coverage, or are poor, tend to put off going to the doctor, check-ups and the like for too long, and it makes them more prone to finding they already have a disease too advanced to fix.

In today's world, people can be treated for aggressive and fast-growing cancers and many conditions and if caught early can save as life, and at a fraction of the cost. Sorry I don't buy your logic.

You seem to have excuse after excuse why people should not have health care except what is there already. Why don't you go to church and ask your pastor how I would say that is not a pro-life position?

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 11 a.m.

he, he... it doesn't matter anyway, McCain will be the next president. Obama just doesn't have a chance.

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 11:21 a.m.

ME HAVING EXCUSES, now how about looking in the mirror!
I don't have excuse after excuse for why people shouldn't have healthcare. These points stated were the only time I have ever even talked about this issue. Now lets talk about your excuses of how the GOP candidates are so horrible, and how Obama is such a saint? How about you quit reversing your arguements and STAND UP FOR YOURSELF!

And so sorry, but I dont believe in organized CULT religions. Also, I don't believe in pro-life when our population in this world will double in 40 year while the amount of land STAYS THE SAME. It is not fair for a child to be born into this world from a mother who sleeps with 100 guys a month and contracts HIV. This is what is happening in our country as well as others. A prime example is Africa, where Tribes are being wiped out because of the "pro-life" decisions there, but yet nobody wants to realize they are give AIDS to the child.

How about you answer my question instead of slithering away from it
if his insane healthcare policy goes into effect, WHERE IS THAT MONEY GOING TO COME FROM?????

What race would you happen to be? That could explain all of this.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 11:29 a.m.

You make a pitiful warrior for your cause yomama. You lose your cool too easy and have a fit when you're challenged.

You're like an entitlement case and if you don't get your way you'll fume and spout. That's what your side has become.

The difference according to the Brookings Institution between everything Obama plans and everything McCain plans will amount to 2% increase in taxes for the middle class.

McCain's plans would raise taxes 3% for the middle class by 2012 and Obama's 5% by 2012. But Obama would get a lot more done for his increase including health care reform, and more aggressive energy policies. Obama's plan would also give relief to seniors and the poorest taxpayers. McCain's plans are simply less egalitarian, would preserve the tax shelters for the very rich and the largest corporations.

I know you can't accept it, but your arguments are simplistic. I don't accept them. You can't even tell when you make unfounded, sweeping statements, and frankly your arguments consist mainly of unfounded sweeping statements.

IF it doesn't matter anyway, why don't you do like your side's politicians and say you favor some health care reform and hand the insurance companies a new plan to make more money?

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 11:37 a.m.

Life in the United States is Black or White. Just look at the statistics:

Ohio: 87% AA, 35% non-AA
TX: 84% AA, 39% non-AA
MS: 92% AA, 16% non-AA
PA: 90% AA, 36% non-AA
IN: 89% AA, 43% non-AA
NC: 91% AA, 38% non-AA
WV: 90% AA, 22% non-AA
KY: 90% AA, 21% non-AA
OR: 90% AA, 57% non-AA

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/...

Now you tell me, if Obama was not African American, would you vote for him YEAHUHUH?
There is absolutely NO WAY you can get out of this one. This is based on actual statistical facts, NOT EXCUSES.

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 11:43 a.m.

So my arguement is simplistics huh? How about that! Statistical numbers are simplistic. Next what will be simplistic, how our taxes are rising because we are giving more and more to LAZY PEOPLE?

WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER ANY OF MY QUESTION YEAHUHUH???????

You know why, because YOU CAN'T! Answer this, would you vote for Obama if he was another race? Would you be this willing to argue for him if he was another race?

It is ridiculous to think that you would. Obama has nothing to say but PROMISES, no experience, just words. He has never faught for our country, and doesn't know anything about fighting. All he knows is how to spout off promises that people like you want to hear.

Once again, I will ask you, but probably won't get an answer, how do you think other politicians have became elected in the past? Wouldn't you think their main tatic would have been to promise Americans what they want to hear? Anyone can do that. But only few have the experience and trust. McCain has this, and will be the next president.

McCain/Palin 2008

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 12:01 p.m.

Look Yomama, there is a pattern here. A poster wrote in a while back and described my patience in explaining as an act of love. I just like to write about real issues and I will call a spade a spade.

You know, when you ask me a question you could research for yourself -- "Where's the money coming from?" And I don't spell it out for you to your satisfaction -- that doesn't mean you win the argument. I shouldn't have to educate you or you get to win. I find that to be a lame debate technique, and it encourages people to play dumb to win. Do you see my point? Have you ever argued with anyone who did that? That is not my game.

We don't know how policies will work out. Mostly we know what we have done and what it brings.

I have the courage to change more than you do. You are too busy freaking out to make a conclusion that is really new, and so I reject your right to control. Just over half the people in this country feel my way right now. You're just freaking out trying to scare folks the way you're scared. Me, if my income dropped some no big deal. It's worth the chance. Who knows what a dollar will be worth by 2012?

And your insides are hanging out with your last question. I am white and the reason I know so much about what makes you tick is that I was raised to mouth the things you say without questioning them. I just grew up to the point that I didn't think that way of looking at things was honest.

I got compassion for folks who need compassion. And the Republicans don't need any sympathy. If they get listened to it should be because they tell the truth.

For years I have had to listen to how folks that went against Republicans were unpatriotic, hated our country and themselves, were queer and loved welfare. Those things are not true and never were. If America starts to tell you the truth about yourself, you have to have the cahones to take the same thing for a while.

Our only responsibility is to make sure when we tell political conservatives to go take a leap, that we do it for reasons that are more truthful. And our reason is that we are tired of the lying, even if you think you are telling the truth.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 12:07 p.m.

Most of the American blacks will vote for obama because he is black and for no other reason . I'm hoping there will be enough registered voters that will not do that . We have a good chance at seeing real change if its not blown by Hollywood, the media and people that can't think for themselves . We don't need a superstar puppet in the White House . We need proven leaders. We need McCain/Palin . We need people that will listen to the wants and needs of the American people . That's you and me,friends . Gov. Palin has first hand knowledge what the average folks need . It wasn't that long ago she was mayor in a small town and was hearing 1st hand what was going on with us common folks . Having a down syndrone baby has put her right in the middle of healthcare problems . She really does know our needs in that department with being in a place none of us would ever want to be . If I were in a burning building I would want someone like John McCain or Sarah Palin to be there with me . They would never desert their fellow man in the hour of need and they have the strength and fortitude to survive . They have proven to be honorable and patriotic fighters for the American people . We have a strong future ahead of us when this team is working together . Sarah Patin and John McCain will learn even more than they already know from each other . John McCain will be a great president and in four more years Sarah Palin will be an even better president . McCain--HERO Obama-- ZERO

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 12:24 p.m.

Your racial vomit job is priceless Yomama. I went to the hate site you offered. It was a wonderful place. The guy that used to live across the street from me who was a Klan official would love it!

I told you I was white. I told EVERYBODY where they can get information on where the money comes from, and I told you why I believe what I do. If I misstated anything I am sorry, but I think you get my drift if you want to.

I will now tell you no, I have not turned black inside, and YES if I say the problem is with the Republican's character, then that is my way of telling you that no, if Obama was white I would still vote for him.

In fact if Biden was the candidate I would vote for Biden. In fact, if McCain was not a Republican and lied so much and was not supported by teams of liars I MIGHT vote for him. But then if pigs could fly...

You really condemned yourself when you went on the black rant, Obamayomama, and southernbelle thanks for your comments, too. Game over.

NOW, if we can get back to talking about health care and quit talking about the blacks....I guess I can't say Democrat because we are talking about blacks, then, too, huh?

Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 12:24 p.m.

'Tired of working...vote Democrat."

That should be Barack HUSSEIN Obama's slogan.

Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 12:37 p.m.

The more I read Yeahuhuh's comments...his smugness and arrogance is more apparent.

He is doing his best to "show" how much smarter he thinks he is. He is "showing" us how much better he thinks he is.

No wonder he likes Obama so much...he is following the Obama "How to pull the eyes over the voter" Book.

And as for Biden...what state is he from? I know he represents the State of Delaware, but he never mentions that. He points to being from Scranton. He's abandoned his own state. CLASSY!!!

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 12:38 p.m.

The truth is this country has substantial opportunities to achieve dreams of individuals, probably more than any other country in the world. Perhaps we should ask WHY we are entering a recession? Is it really any faults of our own? Why are people in place like California and Florida losing their homes due to foreclosures? Why are so many jobs being lost?
It is a domino effect. People in this country have grown to live lavishly since the industrial revolution began. We, as Americans, waste and consume more than any other country. Many if not most of Americans live off of credit cards and loans from banks. And instead of working to pay off loans, they go out and finance something else to accommodate their lavish lifestyle. The economy is beginning to catch up to our depts. And now we think that Barack Obama will be the answer when in reality, the only answer is within ourselves. If we were to stop buying the 3000+ square feet homes and updating our SUVs every 3 years, maybe this country could pull itself together.

Given, the war has cost our country extreme amounts of money. But look at what is was for? We went to war to fight against terrorism, and we helped Iraq establish democracy. We can pull out, but there will always be somewhere else we will have to go to help fight for freedom and rid evil. We are technically still at war against North Korea. Now they are getting mad because we are not establishing them as a peace making country (since they tore down one of their nuclear reactors). Look at what may be next on the list: Russia, Venezuela, the Congo… There will always be war, and we need to be ready for it.

If we take other countries as examples of how things changed when the government stuck its nose in healthcare (Canada, Great Britain), then we should be able to characterize an outcome.

I am not asking for sympathy for Republicans, even more, I am not a republican. How can folks who go against republicans be considered haters of this country when it was founded on democracy? What I am trying to point out is if we put things into perspective with what is really important to the majority of the population. Being that I never had healthcare growing up shows that it is really not that important. If someone really needs it, they will get it. The actions that Obama promises do not hold ground with what this country needs.

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 1:03 p.m.

What's wrong with taking care or yourself? Why can't people just go to work and be responsible. I know many people will say there is no work, well the Mexicans are moving in by the millions because there's plenty to do. Welfare is supposed to be a way out not a way of life. Handouts only leads to more people abusing the system. Letting our government put their hands in health care will be the biggest mistake we've ever made. They've messed up everything they've ever touched why would this be any different? Be responsible get off your tail and be productive. No one owes you or me a thing, When will people realize that life is about making choices. You can fall victim of government welfare programs or you can make something of yourself.

Have you ever been to the post office on the first of the month; how many of those people really deserve their little check? They seem healthy, most are dressed well and drive nice vehicles and they do is hang out all day while we work for their check. You ever wonder why many of these same people end up in jail from time to time. Do you think it's because they have too much time on their hands or is it because they're under privledged and haven't had the same opportunities in life. I know what I think. Why should anyone pay more taxes for another program, don't we have enough? It's what's wrong with America today. Too many able bodied people waiting for someone else to take care of them!

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 1:31 p.m.

Obamayamama or anyone for that matter. I don't know why we bother with Yehuhuh. It is clear that he/she/it knows nothing of which they speak. Simply copying and pasting rhetoric he/she/it finds on various liberal websites and NEVER answering any questions.
By the way from Yeahuhuh "A poster wrote in a while back and described my patience in explaining as an act of love." That poster was Peace007 who is clearly living life in a drug induced coma if you have read her posts. I don't think I would use her as a strong character reference.

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 1:38 p.m.

Amen fuzzmonkey, Roosevelt and Johnson didn't know what they were getting into when they signed their names on the lines.

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 2:03 p.m.

Finally, some backup arrives! So my racial vomit is priceless, then are the statistics racial vomit or facts?

Once again, Yeahuhuh, I will state that Obama is not the answer to the failing economy, it is all of us as citizens of the US. And I see that you run away when others come on here and disagree with you which is just what Obama will do when the going gets tough, why, because he doesn't know any better. He doesnt know how to handle it. He has no experience and wouldn't know what to do when another 9/11 hits. I was only trying to find a quick reference for the statistics when referring to the hate site. The only point I was trying to make is that many of the African Americans only want to see him in the office because he is an African American himself. In fact, the Natchez democrat website had a comment from someone who bluntly stated this saying that "If he gets in office, we would all see our dreams come true".

You, yeahuhuh, can get disgusted all you want, and you can ignore what I have said and call it vomit or simple, but the truth is there, most people that live in reality can see it.

Posted by fuzzmonkey (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 2:26 p.m.

Like I said in an above post most people that don't have insurance CHOOSE TOO. They justify this by saying it's too expensive. Most of these people have vehicles they can't afford, they eat out all the time and they have expensive toys; but they can't afford health insurance. This isn't about the elderly or disabled these are able bodied folk. In most cases their priorities aren't where they should be. Like I said before, I can't tell them how to spend their money but I sure as hell should have to pay their insurance either.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 2:27 p.m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8zXi90EV...

Typical democratic media, refuses to answer a question.

Try this one on for size huhuh

http://townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWi...

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 2:31 p.m.

Well fellows there is nothing wrong with the points you make up there. And rabbit you stooge, that was not Peace007 I referred to but you figure it out for an exercise since your fingers work faster than your mind. I think you guys might note this is my writing. I always credit my pastes from someone else.

Those are all great general truths above and I will say thanks for that. They have nothing to do with the lying, cheating BS that I accuse Republicans of perpetrating.

In fact there is nothing wrong with conservative values. I use them every day and so do millions of other people -- Democrats, too. The Republican Party decided years ago they would claim these values as if they were their own, and market the Party accordingly. Then when that didn't work they decided they would make a case for everyone dumb enough to believe that nobody else believed in these values. That is where the lying got offensive. You guys bought it. It's a way of seeing the world, and you don't have to be a Republican to think that way -- you'll just find yourself saying the same things as Republicans and voting for them.

There are a few groups that don't have the sense or the vision to be good citizens. I will list them for you, just so you'll know how I and alot of other people think. If you don't accept what I say just realize that many of the people you oppose think this way, too.

Welfare types (cheats) -- folks that represent the lowest levels of functionality in society for their own laziness. They include sick, stupid, lazy, uneducated and disadvantaged people that are so bad off they can't pay their way at the present, but if they thought different or someone showed them how, they could. They will vote -- if they do at all -- for whoever seems most caring. That makes them Democrats -- but most Democrats are NOT like this.

Anti-tax freaks -- folks that no matter what are so close to their mental edge that they cannot survive with the thought of any more taxes for any reason and they will vote accordingly -- not a nickel more. It doesn't matter what any other countries pay or if their tax burden to live in this land is really a good deal or not. They are like the negative mirror image of the welfare crowd, except these people are just shallow and selfish -- they have the means to act better but their values are too self-shifted and they are insensitive -- often they are underlying racists. They are actually more pitiful than the welfare crowd. These people side with Republicans, and the ones that realize how corrupt the Republicans are are Libertarians. But included in Libertarians are anti-tax people that are honestly anti-government and don't believe in using government, unlike the Republicans who actually favor using government to imprison, militarily conquer and use government to force a moral code upon citizens.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 2:33 p.m.

Us-against-them-types - These folks are terrified for their mortal asses, see everything bad anyone does to us as just happening because others are evil and we are good. We can kill ten times as many people as the other guys and these folks always have a reason why that's ok. When we get attacked in a reprisal like 9/11 these folks are blindsided because they never even noticed when we were involved in killing a million as in the Iran/Iraq War or in killing 3 million as in Vietnam. They just count casualties on our side and don't understand why we ever get attacked. These people live in constant fear and militancy but they don't notice why we get these symbolic bombings from the other side. These are the people who are prone to being scared to death or stupidly proud, and would vote for the Devil if convinced he would shoot back for them. They tend to be Republicans because they cannot imagine a situation where people would be able to avoid conflict, as Obama seeks to do, they are ready to fight because the way they do things there will always be a fight to pick or one to defend.

The problems with these types of folks is not that they exist -- everybody is free to be who they want. It is that they are ignorant, vulnerable and can be manipulated. They are special interest voters who are too impaired to be anything else. They reduce life to one or two areas and therefore are prone to making decisions that backfire on the rest of us. Like voting for the crooks of the GOP because they are terrified of the 15% of this country that is black. How stupid!

The other group of voters is the middle. People with more balanced personalities, larger sense of self, and more character. People who are a better mix of compassion and need. These people are not better citizens because of some Biblical goodness -- they think better, they see details of issues better and they can adjust to changes better. Things are not so black and white for them, so they naturally look deeper.

The problem with the corrupt Republican Party is that they targeted group 2 and group 3 above because they needed to to get elected. And they don't want this group to grow spiritually because they are using them to get elected. So they inflame racial hatred but mask it as economic good sense. They inflame relationships with other countries for oil and strategic goals then act like the other countries are to blame if that doesn't work.

The more Republican you are, the more you tend to have the traits of the last two groups. It's like math -- it always adds up.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 2:49 p.m.

disclaimer 1 -- I do not claim that all Libertarians are in group 2. Many like the freedom of being genuinely libertarian and tolerant. It is a beautiful vision that could mean freedom, Old West style for a great many people. Libertarians with any sense know how far we are from their dream and vote only as a symbolic gesture.

disclaimer 2 -- Not all Republicans are terminally immoral (He,he!). A lot of them do not keep up with the details of Washington and history because they are working hard to make their way and nothing much wrong with that.

You can tell the ones that are far gone, though when they are offered information on, for example WHY 9/11 happened, when they find out about how many people we had a hand in killing over there During Reagan/Bush1 -- BEFORE 9/11, if they don't say "Well no wonder somebody got mad at us being over there!", then they might be too far gone to save.

But you would never know me on the street. I am the nicest guy you see -- go along -- get along with conservatives who absolutely expect everybody to shut up about these topics or get sneered at. I know most people can't take having this stuff said to them to their face. There would be a fight!

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 3:18 p.m.

Suggestion -- let's terminate this discussion in this thread and let someone post who has something to say that is more about health care?

There will be plenty of time for the discussion about how John McCain or Barack Obama are sooooo important that anyone's world will come crashing down if either of them is elected.

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 3:21 p.m.

Wow yeahuh, that's like reading the first chapter in a book! Now who is the one freaking out trying to top the points listed?

I still stand behind my 1 claim, that the state of economy is faults of our luxerious lifestyles, and Obama NOR any 1 man is going to be able to fix this. It is up to us to start saving and quit living in debt.

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 3:41 p.m.

Considering that you just wrote a book on the ND website yeahuh, maybe that would be a good idea.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 3:46 p.m.

THE END! PLEASE!

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 4:45 p.m.

If the wars are being fought to protect our freedoms, why were all those people arrested at the RNC, including the journalists who were covering the protest? fstv.org

Do we still have freedom of speech and the right to a peaceful assembly in the United States? This is why we need to vote for Obama, because he is a constitutional attorney, upholds the constitution, and won't take away our rights.

Did you know that the US is bombing inside Pakistan's borders? What's gonna happen when we are at war with Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq? Plus, we are in a friction with Russia over Georgia, and leaning towards war with Iran. We do know for sure that Pakistan and Russia have nukes, and that isn't a guess.

Are you feeling safer now? Because, I think we need to chill-out and start talking peace. Get on the peace train before it leaves the station for crying out loud.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 5, 2008 at 5:02 p.m.

Let's take this general political discussion to Obama breaks new ground in the Opinion section.

Just go there and say something stupid and I will find you. he,he!

If it was up to me, we would discuss the underlying psychological needs of conservatives and liberals, because that is fascinating and reflects on who we are as a culture more accurately than bantering over these smaller issues.

Posted by Let_us_think (anonymous) on September 6, 2008 at 8:08 a.m.

Published studies in medical journals have shown a 25% higher mortality rate for breast cancer patients without medical insurance compared to other patients with insurance. I'm a physician here in Natchez, and I read these journals. When medical insurance doesn't cover everyone the situation is tantamount to selling seats in a lifeboat. At one time, before most people had medical insurance, the present situation could be tolerated. Now that 80% of people do have insurance, the array of treatments available for various conditions assumes one has insurance. Those without insurance find they can't pay for available treatment. Health care should be no different than education--a certain level of care should be available to everyone. Imagine if the only available schools in town were Trinity, Cathedral, ACCS, and Holy Family. Those who couldn't afford these schools would go uneducated. We can have a better society if education and health care are available to everyone.

Posted by Resigned (anonymous) on September 6, 2008 at 9:26 a.m.

Bottom line- Pro national healthcare folks want someone else to pay for their healthcare-

My dad always told me you don't get something for nothing. Anyone who thinks government can deliver any service better than private enterprise has not been paying attention.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 6, 2008 at 10:05 a.m.

The VA, Medicare and Medicaid already are the biggest customers for pharmaceutical companies. Government has already become involved enough in health care to control prices through policies that are rigged toward industry.

President Bush's refusal to negotiate with drug companies in that situation has locked prices high for everyone, and his refusal to allow us to purchase the same drugs from foreign sources is using government to lock the prices in for US citizens while we finance cheap drugs for the rest of the world.

The only problem with the idealistic free market approach is that the politicians who promote it don't seem to follow their own advice, and we have not had a free market for a long time. The average citizen is not smart enough to see exactly how he is being screwed. Big Government implores the average citizen to not rock their boat by pretending that better regulation would be a violation of free enterprise, even though the present situation is already a violation of free enterprise.

Just compare what your medicine costs in Canada, England and the US to see how better regulated countries benefit.

It never was about more or less regulation -- it's about whose interest the existing regulations benefit.

My Dad told me " Son, you'll like what the Republicans say... It's a shame they are such liars." And Dad was right.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 6, 2008 at 10:17 a.m.

Ooops did I get too political??

Let_us_think's post above is extremely well written and his analogy of schooling to clarify it is very good.

I don't think most of the people who oppose inclusion of the small percentage of people still left out are actually worried about the real effect of those proposed changes.

They are worried about some diabolical socialist threat, and a complete re-ordering of medicine into a socialist-style system. I don't see how that could happen, considering the lock that is on our present system in the interest of the industry.

We will not be electing a dictator, and all the details will have to be worked out at great length.

Posted by Resigned (anonymous) on September 6, 2008 at 2:19 p.m.

Maybe your name should just be Huh? Government is the problem and government is the solution?

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 6, 2008 at 6:23 p.m.

I know it might be hard for you to understand, but if government made the laws that make price gouging for pharmaceuticals possible, then it is going to take a change in government laws to change that.

Sort of like if the government made an unsafe bridge, you are certainly not going to go out and fix it yourself. The question is, would you be dumb enough to keep using an unsafe bridge just because it's there?

I realize it's complicated, but you'll get it. Geez.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 7, 2008 at midnight

Wow, I just now read this whole comment section and it seems that some folks on here just can't get me off their minds, even when I'm not making any comments.

I would like to say that most often I do agree with yeahuhuh's comments. He says what I want to say, but just more eloquently. But, there are very few times that I agree with the comments of unhappyrabbit and osamayama.

Anytime you want to meet up for a drug test unhappyrabbit, I'll bet you money that I will be the one to pass. Anyways, if I were all drugged out, I wouldn't even care enough to make a comment.

What makes you feel that you are so much more important than those little Iraqi and Afghan babies who were destroyed by US bombs? Why don't you go enlist, so you can get a first hand experience of war, if you think it's so wonderful?

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 7, 2008 at 8:54 a.m.

I don't think you should take rabbit's comment he made about your "drug-induced coma" as anything other than a symptom of rabbit's own anger, Peace007.

In fact the reason it can be so hard for those guys to deal with the specifics of health care is that they engage constantly in the politics of anger, and it taints their world.

Everything becomes subservient to their entitlement to their own right to power, their own way of seeing, and having Bush betray them so badly has made them more angry, not more thoughtful.

They do not intend to give up control of government no matter how badly they have done, and a little confusion about a lie -- a slur -- about you -- well they won't even notice it. As likely as not I will get more anger by pointing out rabbit's error, or pointing out their entitlement to anger. I used an 11 letter word to describe them -- now they will be angered at my elitism.

If I am patient I will anger them for being smug. If I keep explaining I am a know it all. If the news goes against them they will be angered at the liberal press. The one thing for sure is they are angry in their souls, unless you give them their entitlement -- power, and allow the status quo to exist -- with them in charge. Dare not support a candidate that opposes their record -- that really makes them angry.

Notice how wrong on every level rabbit can be -- the comment he attributed to you to make that insult was not even yours and he failed to notice that. Notice he did not comment when his error is pointed out? Anger took his manners.

Too many Americans are being lured into that way of seeing the world -- foreign policy must express their anger, tax policy must express their anger, health care policy must express their anger. And hurting people in the process??? Too bad.

And the Republican party rides them like a mule. They have finally angered the other side after 8 years of our patience, and unless we want to continue to finance their angry mistakes with our tax dollars, then we are going to have to speak up about the real problem.

Imagine that, people who control this country with all their opportunities and blessings, wasting their life on so much anger. Nothing will ever satisfy them.

Excuse me if I sound angry, He,he! But let's call a spade a spade. They place their right to anger above even an examination of public health care, and so it's time for us to "take off the gloves".

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 7, 2008 at 12:17 p.m.

Yeahuhuh, your Post's are all right on and I wouldn't concern myself with criticism of elitism from people who can't spell, or are so angry that they omit words from their sentence to get to the slur.

On the subject of health Care and how to pay for it, All one needs to do is look at the cost of Health Care related Insurance, including mal-practice for Dr.'s, Nurse's, etc.. Then eliminate that figure plus the Tax right offs, for anything they,( the Insurance Companys) have to pay out and you will discover that you have eliminated a considerable chunk of Change.

While I'm on my Soap Box, let me address,( or more accurately un dress) this "Socialized Medicine" LIE. I have not read one UHC plan, including SP-UHC where the Doctors or the Hospitals are owned by, or work for the "STATE". Anyone who calls it "Socialized Medicine" is either lying or Ignorant, an I'm-a-gone........

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 7, 2008 at 12:50 p.m.

On the subject of the "Righteous Right", here is a little article that missed the Democrat this morning;

Palin Owes Some Good People An Apology (by Jim Wallis)
Wednesday morning I got an e-mail from a former member of our Sojourners community. Perry Perkins is now a community organizer in Louisiana with affiliates of the Industrial Areas Foundation (IAF). "Perk," as we used to call him, reported on the enormous consequences of 2 million people being evacuated because of Hurricane Gustav, much of the state now being without power, how hard cities like Baton Rouge were hit, the tens of thousands of people in shelters and churches, and the continuing problems caused by heavy rains and flooding. Then he talked about how their community organizers were responding to all of this -- responding to hundreds of service calls, assisting local officials in evacuation plans, aiding evacuees without transportation, coordinating shelters and opening new ones, providing food, essential services, and financial aid to those in most need. Since Katrina, Perry's Louisiana interfaith organizations have played a lead role in securing millions of dollars to help thousands of families return to New Orleans and rebuild their homes and their lives.

Then Wednesday night I heard Republican vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin say that her experience as "a small-town mayor is sort of like a community organizer, except that you have actual responsibilities." The convention crowd in St. Paul thought that was very funny. But it wasn't. It was actually quite insulting to the army of community organizers who work in the most challenging places across the country and have such a tremendous impact on the everyday lives of millions of people. I guess Palin and her fellow Republican delegates don't know much about that. The "actual responsibilities" of community organizers literally provide the practical support, collective strength, and hope for a better future that low-income families need to survive,

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 7, 2008 at 12:56 p.m.

--And the rest of the story...
Community organizers are now most focused in the faith community, working with tens of thousands of pastors and laypeople in thousands of congregations around the country. Faith-based organizing is the critical factor in many low-income communities in the country's poorest urban and rural areas, and church leaders are often the biggest supporters of community organizers. And many of them felt deeply offended by Palin's remarks. Here are a few of their responses:

"As a lifelong Republican, the comments I heard last night about community organizing crossed the line. It is one thing to question someone's experience, another to demean the work of millions of hardworking Americans who take time to get involved in their communities. When people come together in my church hall to improve our community, they're building the Kingdom of God in San Diego. We see the fruits of community organizing in safer streets, new parks, and new affordable housing. It's the spirit of democracy for people to have a say and we need more of it," said Bishop Roy Dixon, prelate of the Southern California 4th ecclesiastical jurisdiction of the Church of God in Christ, member of the San Diego Organizing Project and former board chair of PICO National Network.

They have also pointed out how the most important victories for social justice have come more from community organizers than elected officials.

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 7, 2008 at 1:32 p.m.

"We will not be electing a dictator," << I sure hope you are right about that Yeahuhuh, the one we have is way too close for me>>

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 7, 2008 at 7:10 p.m.

If we elect McCain and he installs another Supreme Court justice like the last 2 the rule of the Executive Branch will become much more unquestionable by Congress or anyone.

If we elect Obama he will appoint justices that will balance the power of the Roberts Court to more reflect democratic pressures, in other words the will of Congress.

Obama's likely choice should be what the socialist-fearing voter would want. Making the president more powerful means that when a communist or fascist boogeyman does get in there he can have his way with this country -- all he has to do is declare informal war against some private fringe group like Alqaida, detain those suspect of collaboration or support of the enemy by a very broad definition, and suspend their civil liberties.

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 7:42 a.m.

I agree that while the economy is in the Toilet, the apointment of the next two Supreme Court Justices is one of the most important decisions the next adminestration will have to make. God help us all if it's Republicans making those decisions.............

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 9:05 a.m.

Peace007...

Obama's anti-Iraq intervention speech was in 2002; by 2003 it was down from his Web site; by 2004, he “was saying he really didn’t disagree with how George Bush was conducting the war;” from 2005 to 2007, he voted for war funding and didn’t go to the floor to condemn the war for 18 months; and “wasn’t for timelines initially.”
Sen. Barack Obama, has played politics with the Iraq war, choosing his positions in order to win a political campaign rather than do what is needed to win the war.

So Peace, how can you bash McCains position on the war when your candidate is also supporting it?

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 9:33 a.m.

The Canadian healthcare plan is in critical condition. They cannot fund it, they have had to close numerous hospitals due to lack of funding, they are losing doctors and nurses for higher pay in the United States, and there is a huge waiting time for treatment.
Once again I ask, how and who will pay for all this? Where is the funding coming from?
Like many of Obama's fairy tales, there is no funding source.
Universal Healthcare will have the same effect on us as it did on Canada, severe budget deficits, loss of physicians, lack of quality, lack of competition.
It's very much like Social Security, it was supposed to be a bandaid, and while I have paid into Social Security my entire working adulthood, it is highly unlikely I will reap any benefit from it because it will be drained and is being drained by the baby boomers.
You can't do for everyone what they will not do for themselves. Why do I deserve the same low quality medical treatment (compliments of the universal healthcare plan) that someone who doesn't work will receive? I don't!

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 9:41 a.m.

I'll answer the question you asked Peace, bunny, but I want peace to answer too as I am not speaking for him (her).

Obama opposed the war, but once troops are there it is a stupid move to oppose the administration during sensitive combat.

The 18 months when he and other Democrats were silent were the time given to see whether the administration's leadership would let the war drag on, and to oppose the administration's war by withholding finances would have caused a firestorm of patriotic fervor. This is true even if the war was a stupid idea from the start. Obama's wisdom is shown by his lack of action during that time.

When Bush started attempting to use the war as an excuse for open-ended occupation of the country, and the billion dollar military embassy compound was built, it became obvious that Bush/Cheney had no intention of leaving the country, ever, unless forced to by the Iraqi government.

The surge concept, much touted as McCain plays politics with the soldiers, was only successful because of the Sons of Iraq plan, where we bought off the insurgents by giving them $10 per day to NOT attack coalition forces and to round up the foreigners among them -- once their allies against the US -- and turn them in.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 9:53 a.m.

Obama contends that the surge -- which refers to the increase in US troops need not have been done as the use of more US personnel was less a factor of reduced violence than was the buy-off of the enemy in the Sons of Iraq plan. McCain justifies the surge as the proof of the rightness of military might, which is an incomplete explanation designed to fool idiots that are prone to thinking guns are the best diplomacy.

The Sons of Iraq program was recently taken over by the Baghdad government and the future remains unsure. The pro-Iranian government we installed is at odds with the Sunnis of the SOI program, and they may yet be a problem as we have armed them and legitimized them, and given them organization.

McCain's position on War is the reason he gets bashed. His views on war are warped, despite his patriotic ability to survive bad decisions.

McCain's claim to greatness -- that he was taken prisoner and survived is an interesting metaphor for his Iraq plan. He was in an ill-advised, optional, ideological war, was the victim of an accident within that ill-advised war, and survived it, only to see the war fail because it was not rightly conceived. The War cost megabucks, solidified SE Asia, killed 3 million Vietnamese and gave us nothing.

McCain's bragging now has him again supporting an ill-advised war, as the person who wants to kill more and longer in that ill-advised war, and his wisdom is shared mostly by people who have not yet come to terms with the overall truth about Bush's War. Geopolitically it is argualbly less reasonable than Vietnam.

But Republicans depend on a militant group of special interest voters to get elected, so Republicans have a proven history of seeking to extend conflicts into elections. That is pure history and if you don't know about that you need a reality check. This was done by Nixon, Reagan, Bush1, and his son, the first two by covert action and the last two by more direct efforts. It's history. They stir the pot so the most scared voters will be more scared.

McCain's position is PURE politics. His strength is he gives bad advice because he knows nothing of winning wars through diplomacy and rightness, only keeping up the long, heroic fight. Of course you have heard the saying about how generals always insist on re-fighting their last war.

If you didn't support McCain you would probably know more about geopolitics, and your question would be unnecessary. McCain is intentionally keeping you in the dark for political gain. You should realize that from the fact that the people they chose to lie to in the convention were their most faithful. They know you wouldn't notice or care so they lied to you just like I said they would.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 10:06 a.m.

I really wish you would stop writing your novels on this site. I would so much prefer to hear someone else's point of view.
President Kennedy was the third President to affirm our basic policy in Vietnam, but the first to expand it to a new, heightened level of commitment. He increased the number of U.S. military combat advisors in South Vietnam to 16,000. The Kennedy administration also committed a tragic blunder that forever changed the equation in Vietnam. On November 1, 1963, a coup encouraged and supported by the Kennedy administration led to the assassination of South Vietnamese President Ngo Dinh Diem. By participating in the removal of South Vietnam's President, Kennedy had made the United States directly responsible for the fate of South Vietnam. What had been Vietnam's war became America's war.
Wasn't he a Democrat? Hmmmm

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 10:07 a.m.

As to your health care question -- your should suspect you are just an ideologically blinded dupe if your special-interest thinking has to leave us all vulnerable to paying twice the price the rest of the world pays for pharmaceuticals.

Your wisdom-of-the-marketplace paralyzes you like a little girl getting her hair cut. You are so sure of the beauty of this thinking short-cut that you cannot see how to solve problems.

We have told you about where to get an understanding of where the money could come from but evidently you are too dumb to understand, and just ask the same question again and again. Do you actually not notice how many times that question has been asked in this thread and how many times it was answered?

Just because you cannot understand or look things up yourself does not make us stupider, and it definitely does not make you right, except with other folks who think like you -- that's why I say your position is more social bonding than problem solving. That's not good enough for many of us.

You guys should shoot higher in expectations of yourself. Do it for you country if for no other reason.

Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 10:17 a.m.

Obama opposed the war? He wasn't a senator when the war began. OH...did he oppose it after he got in the Senate?...or did he use that to get elected?

Perhaps he opposed it at a PTA meeting or at some Charity organization function?

He would probably support it only if it was popular.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 10:17 a.m.

Once again, you are stooping to name calling and insults without answering the question...Where is the money coming from???
I understand perfectly, which is why I have an educated opinion on the matter.
What makes you think our governement is better qualified to manage a universal healthcare program, lord knows we have a history of deficit spending and mismanagement of funds. Canada is FAILING miserably.
Just another welfare program to put on the back of the hard working Americans.
By the way, stupider is not a word, try more stupid.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 11:17 a.m.

My position on "the war" has nothing to do with either candidate or politics at all. War is a horrible experience for all involved and is against God's commandments. War is legal murder of innocent people. The terrorist who attacked the US on 9/11 were not a country, and yet the US has used that attack by those individuals as reason to bomb and destroy two countries. To those two countries the US became the terrorist.

I would like for you to imagine what is would be like if another country began bombing the US in order to get rid of George Bush. And then imagine soldiers from that miliatry kicked in your doors during the night and took the teenage males, men, and weapons from all of your homes. How would you then feel about war when you are the one whose life is invaded, home is destroyed, and whose family members are killed or missing?

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 11:20 a.m.

And that could very easily happen if Obama is elected and destroys our military strength by disarming us. We will be sitting ducks.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 11:22 a.m.

So what happened to huhuh? Ran away because he/she/it still cannot answer the question.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 11:38 a.m.

happybunny why do you allow the government to tell you who can have nuclear weapons? whether or not gays should marry? whether or not you should or shouldn't have an abortion? If you trust the government for all of that, why wouldn't you trust them to manage your healthcare?

If social security is put into the hands of the people, some people just can not manage money and will not have social security when it is needed. These same people would benefit from having Universal health care, because they may not be able to scrape up enough money to pay for healthcare. These same people need public schools. If you put education back into the hands of the people, some people will keep their kids at home to work on the farm. That is the reason the government made it manditory for children to get an education.

We all know that education is the answer to most of our problems. The problem is getting all of the people to realize that becoming educated can get them out of their poverty. How many college graduates do you think are on welfare? When a child raised in poverty gets an education and then a good paying job, he usually will take care of his family and get them off of welfare.

We should fund education for all, especially college for four years, and also fund healthcare for all people, so that we will have smart healthy people. The wealthiest people could still have the option of paying for their own schooling at the more expensive schools, and for their own healthcare.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 12:50 p.m.

Our being armed on 9/11 did not stop the terrorism that happened that day. When the next terrorist attack happens, it will be totally unexpected, and our being armed probably won't help then either. The only way to stop terrorism is to better secure our own borders and be more selective of whom we allow to come into our country. Our country has many problems that need to be addressed here at home instead of us trying to run other countries and solve their problems.

TEENAGE pregnancy is a real problem in this country, and sex education which explains how a female becomes pregnant and give instructions for preventing pregnancy is the only answer, since teens can't be trusted to practice abstinance. MISSING PEOPLE and ABDUCTIONS is a real problem in this country. MURDER is a real problem in this country. DRUG ABUSE is a real problem in this country. CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE by teachers, preachers, and those in trusted positions is a real problem in this country...(only to name a few of our problems here in this country). When we can address and solve our own problems here at home, only then will we be able to see around our own eye boards, to get the splinter out of our brothers' eye.

There are many many intelligent people in this country and obviously some who make comments on the Natchez Democrat. If all of these intelligent people would use their intelligence to build people up, and to solve the many problems we as Americans face each day instead of bashing one another and calling each other names, we would all be better off.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 2:20 p.m.

That all sounds swell but how do you propose we pay for it?

I am glad that the government is policing who can have nuclear weapons, I don't care one way or another if gay people get married, and I am pro-choice even though I am a conservative Republican.

As for the rest of your posts about the criminal issues, what does that have to do with the President? These are local issues that need to be addressed within the local communities.

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 2:53 p.m.

Look at what you say rabbit.

Canada is failing miserably, how would you describe the US? Debt, prestige, solvency, value of the dollar? Personal incomes?

We have already supplied all the information you need to assess the reasonability of Obama's efforts to reform health care, and a great many words have been written here on the scope of the proposed changes.

Yet you still ask the same questions. I am not insulting you when I say that you sound dumb. You sound dumb, for the reasons I listed above. What, if you sound dumb, nobody can say it because you are entitled to us ignoring the fact you repeat the same questions asked and answered many times here?

In fact the smartest people in this thread deal with the details and see a way to make things better. But you don't. We can only take so much responsibility for that. Be a big boy, if you don't understand admit it and work a little harder.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 3:12 p.m.

You keep referring back to Obama's website, I am merely asking you to explain it to me, in your own words since you clearly have a very good understanding of his plan.

By the way, I was referring to Canada's failing universal healthcare system, they are failing miserably.

You speak of details and yet you provide none, curious.

Let's talk about debt, how is the US going to fund all of these grandious Obama tales? Oh, that's right (refer myself to the website because you don't know).

Let's talk about personal income, I am glad you bring that up. Who do you think pays the salaries? That's right it's the evil profit mongers, corporate America. What do you think they are going to do when faced with higher taxation? Well what many have already done if they're capable, go out of the country. What does that do to personal income? What income? It's very much like the increase in minimum wage, it helped the workers right out of a job. This is what happens when government tries to interfere with free trade, it doesn't work.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 3:24 p.m.

People usually believe what they want to believe. That's including you, Yeahuhuh . We may have an over 6% unemployment right now but its still lower than other countries. We may still have a huge national debt but we're still better than others . We may worry about our social security but at least we still have it. My crystal ball refuses to tell me how long we'll have it . What does yours say ? We can still choose our health care and our doctor . Not all countries in our world has that luxury . And on top of that we still have more give away without working for it programs for our citizens than any other country . And we still have people whining about the humane help we try to give other countries and they can do it with free speech . We can even hate our president and flag and not be sent to jail for it . All of us could do with a little improving ,government and its people . Obama will only cause more problems . Even his campaign has shown us that . Do you want me to remind you of all the contraversy it caused even in the beginning ? His government will divide us and we will fall . McCain/Palin 2008'

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 3:57 p.m.

Change, the only thing you'll have left if Obama is elected.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 4:33 p.m.

Happy, you are so right ! More and more Americans are agreeing with us all the time . Have you seen the polls ? Don't you just love Sarah Palin ? The dems are so worried they are running scared of our vice-president nominee . McCain and his camp are far from being dummies . I can't wait to see the next stategic surprize they hit the dems with ! You know the best is yet to be . That's just another reason McCain will be our next Commander -in- Chief . What a glorious day that will be! I can't help but wonder how obama will pay off his debts to the fools that he owes for his quick climb in politics . Don't get me wrong ,I don't feel sorry for him . If he became president (which thank God won't happen) he wouldn't have any sympathy for us . You could bet on that . He is clever but most people see through him . Change is coming and its the right kind ! McCain/Palin 2008'

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 4:33 p.m.

Sentas, you truly are full of yourself. You and huhuh are very similar, you try to make yourselves sound intelligent by the language you use, you belittle people and make rude statements, yet you fail to make a single valid argument.

I have enjoyed the lack of your presence the last week or so, I hope it will continue.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 4:43 p.m.

SouthernBelle, I agree Sarah Palin was an outstanding choice to run with McCain.
As the chief executive of her state, she is better prepared, and has more experience to bring to the presidency than the man who heads the democratic ticket, who had only a year in the U.S. Senate before he started running for president.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 4:55 p.m.

I know . It's kind of funny that our vice-president nominee has more on the ball than the dems president nominee .

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 5:02 p.m.

I think its time the Democrat ask another question "on the street' . Like "Where do you see yourself in 4 years ?"

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 5:36 p.m.

Yes I will agree with one thing, we do come across as smarter, and more issue oriented than you do, because we use better English. But you miswrote -- we make valid arguments, you just fail to understand them. There is a big difference. I'll show you how you go wrong:

"I understand perfectly, which is why I have an educated opinion on the matter. "

You see, you say you understand perfectly, and that leads you to believe you are educated. Most mortal people have to be educated before they understand perfectly. Get the subtlety? Maybe you didn't mean to imply that your understanding is superior to your education, but that is what you wrote.

The physician that wrote in, sharing our opinion, do you think he is full of himself? Or is he just a "crack smoker" or plagued with "drug-induced" delusions or whatever else you come up with for those who disagree with you?

If you don't want people to insult you, you should cut the cracks about people's drug-induced states and other slurs that would get your nose broken in a face-to-face conflict. I think you are a coward to say stuff like that, and frankly seem a bit stupid, redneck and trailer trashy when you do. Either you realize that or you don't.

I think you have already told us all the facts and opinions you have on health care. Why don't you surf somewhere else?

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 7:14 p.m.

I loved and agreed with what the physician had to say about healthcare and education. And I agree that Sarah Palin is a great woman and would make a great minister, but she is too inexperienced and narrow minded to be President of this whole great diverse country. I wonder if she speaks in tongues, as well, and believes that one must in order to be saved? I'm not one whom necessarily believes that the president of this country has to share my religious views, as I believe in a separation of church and state and in following the constitution.

On CNN this morning, an analyst said this is how the tax plans would work-out.

Income
$38K-66K (McCain-$325) (Obama-$1110)
$66K-112K (McCain-$994) (Obama-1264)
$112K-161K(McCain-$2584) (Obama-$2135)
>$2.9 million (McCain-$290,000) (Obama+$542,802)

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 7:30 p.m.

The phrase "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world" was first used by Baptist theologian Roger Williams, the founder of the colony of Rhode Island.[6][7] It was later used by Thomas Jefferson as a description of the First Amendment and its restriction on the legislative branch of the federal government, in an 1802 letter[8] to the Danbury Baptists (a religious minority concerned about the dominant position of the Congregationalist church in Connecticut), assuring that their rights as a religious minority would be protected from federal interference. As he stated:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

Jefferson's letter was in reply to a letter[9] that he had received from the Danbury Baptist Association dated October 7 1801. In an 1808 letter to Virginia Baptists, Jefferson would use the same theme:

We have solved, by fair experiment, the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 7:32 p.m.

continued

Main article: Treaty of Tripoli
In 1797, the United States Senate ratified a treaty with Tripoli that stated in Article 11:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen(Islam); and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation(Islamic World), it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.[25]

This section of the Treaty has recently been a point of contention on the interpretation of the doctrine of separation of church and state. Supporters of the separation of church and state believe this article confirms that the government of the United States was specifically intended to be religiously neutral. Supporters of the "Christian Nation" theory dispute this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_...

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 8:14 p.m.

Tell that to Rev. Wright

Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 10:51 p.m.

I heard Sarah's preacher talking about how Alaska was one of the states favored to be a refuge state during the apocalypse. Sounds like a bunch of survivalists.

Some people think that Biblical literalists support war in the Middle East because they feel part of an end-time prophesy in doing so. They are looking for a chance to side with Israel to gain favor during the end time, and even to bring it on, hoping for the return of Christ in their mortal lifetime.

This is thought by many to be a silent reason Bush has the leeway to be moving on Iran, to satisfy this fundamentalist base. Iran is no threat to us but they are to Israel as long as Israel continues expansion into Muslim land, but those who do not stand with Israel will supposedly perish in the end times. Or so I've heard.

If McCain needs militarism to make him electable this constant turmoil is a ready source of votes for him and the perpetual excuse for being there. Scary.

And hesh my mouf' Southernbelle, but isn't the Reverend Wright's fire mostly just aimed at the machinations of the white devil, and gives us credit for intentionally doing what we did to black folks, instead of it being accidental or indirect like we like to say it is?

I think that is a good question. Radical blacks have much more to rail about against white folks than those Klan members who were once respected members of our local communities had on blacks.

I know a lot of folks who for years would not vote for a black because he was black, and because "they" were inept, and because white folks could not afford to do it because of the welfare. Now, many of those people won't vote for a black because he is a Democrat, because "they" are inept, and because white people cannot afford it because of the welfare. I don't think among southern voters there has been much change at all.

Yet when it comes time to manage these concerns the only Democratic president we have had in the last 25 years balanced the budget, trimmed welfare, and we lived in prosperity during his terms. All of the Republican presidents during that time had budget deficits and worse economies.

But the southern voter has been satisfied with Republican leadership -- wonder what is so valuable about that vote that keeps the southern white voter supporting the GOP? It certainly is not performance, it's something else.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 8, 2008 at 11:46 p.m.

Maybe we all need to start packing our bags and mosey on up towards Alaska, like the good preacher said, because if the US rubs Russia the wrong way, the nukes probably won't be aimed at Alaska (it's too close to Russia).

Not too long ago, I overheard this elderly Republican woman say, "well I don't won't no Hillary in the White House...women just don't belong in politics." I just smiled and kept silent (to keep the peace) while thinking that wild horses couldn't keep her from the voting booth. Now, I can just imagine that she's chomping at the bit to vote for Palin. Back around the last election, the same woman patted my then teenage daughter on the leg and said, "those ole Democrats are gonna start the draft back and you're just the right age to be drafted."

Politics and religion...sigh!

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 8:29 a.m.

huhuh...give me a break. You are no more issue oriented or more intelligent than anyone on this site, you are simply pretentious. Just because you use big words in no way makes your ridiculous opinions valid.
As far as having an educated opinion, I study the issues and make my decisions based on facts, not fantasy.
I would tend to imagine that the good doctor that is for a universal healthcare plan is in the minority. It would do nothing but reduce his salary, increase his workload and increase his personal income tax obligation.
By the way, did you happen to catch Obama on O'Reilly last night? It was priceless!

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 10:32 a.m.

Actually, I remember a time when doctors became doctors to save lives, not because of the amount of income that could result from their decision to become doctors. That is not a fantasy. There was a time when a good doctor would accept a live chicken or a cooked chicken dinner for payment of his medical services (or a pig, other livestock, or other forms of bartering for payment). Back then, however, doctors lived in the same neighborhoods as their patients and drove the same kind of cars.

Greed is the biggest problem of our whole society. Republican fear mongering is the next biggest problem.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 10:44 a.m.

Yeahuhuh , You must be living in the far past . My present tells me there're an awful lot of black politians in our government . They are also women and they are Repubican and Democrat . News flash to you , they were voted for by people of all races . Even our ever rising Hispanics . It's one of the reasons our country is so great . I'm sorry you feel so ashamed of your race . I don't . Every race in America has gone through hell & back to make this country what it is today . I don't need my husband to run for president to be proud of America . My ancestors did that for me . I don't feel a need to apologize for anything they might have done in somebody elses eyes . Unfortunately ,it turns out that most of the hurts that were put upon our ancestors were a means to a greater end . Not many people want to go back to the world our ancestors came from . It's much better here . I respect your right to a different opinion but I don't respect your putdowns on my country or fellow man . Cool it !

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 10:54 a.m.

By the way Peace, Wikipedia is not a valid source of information, college students are not allowed to use it as a reference for good reason.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 10:57 a.m.

While I didn't see the O'Reilly show...as I no longer have Fox news in my tv programming, which was my choice, as I grew tired of watching the teeth gnashing on that news channel, which made it hard to understand what anyone was saying...I did find a partial part of the interview and one which states that the rest will be aired again on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of next week.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04...

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 10:57 a.m.

Robinhood Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crvINqq5i...

Notice how he sidesteps on Corporate taxation. Everything he plans will have a counter effect, just like the minimum wage backlash.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 10:59 a.m.

Well it seems that it took becoming a prisoner of war to make McCain realize how much his country meant to him, southernbell. Let me just find that for you. I'll be back.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 11:10 a.m.

I would imagine most of us had to have bad things happen to us to be able to feel more compassion for our fellow man . It takes a few hardships to make us sometimes . It usually makes us better or bitter . That's one reason maturity is so important . I wish no one had to go through pain but sometimes its unavoidable . What one does with it is a different matter .

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 11:22 a.m.

Oh right, southernbelle, sure...as long as you are not smearing someone without giving all the facts of the matter...I'm just here trying to keep it fair and balanced.

Prior to the RNC acceptance speech, McCain has uttered the words repeatedly that it took becoming a POW to find love for his country. You can watch it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkPUBn3vy...

and during McCain's acceptance speech his exact words: I fell in love with my country when I was a prisoner in someone else's. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 11:25 a.m.

Ok, I'm going on vacation so you all can have it for a few. Have at it...but, I'll be back.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 12:05 p.m.

You are right SouthernBelle, it's like after the events of 9/11 when most Americans found a renewed sense of patriotism. They began flying the American flag daily. It's not that they loved their country any less prior to 9/11, it just takes a tragedy sometimes to make us realize our true feelings.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 3:13 p.m.

True happybunny, we all did fly our flags until we realized that they had all been made in China.

You know, I've had worse dealings in my life than being called crazy and labeled as being in a drug induced coma, but the real miracle here...that you, with all your incite can't see...is that the fact that I'm not in a self induced by drugs coma IS THE REAL MIRACLE. Nope, googling wouldn't even touch the realities of what I've endured. Now I can only wonder how you would have made out if you had gone through the same.

My elderly aunt, I described in the above comments was not a fantasy. And when I had to stay in her home during the summer of 64, she and her husband took me to her lilly white church on Sundays. Then when the blacks marched on her town, I was forced to listen while my uncle cursed taking God's name in vain while he ranted and raved at the blacks in hatred calling them by that word that causes so many bad feelings. I also recall the choice words he used on the white women and men who were marching with the blacks. Her son that I played with making dirt roads for little cars later became mayor of that town...for one term, lol. Not long ago I had to give my aunt a ride to Natchez and on the way back, she told me how my cousin the ex-mayor was selling his home in his new town, because a little boy child of the other race had come to play inside with his son. Then after a little more of her conversation, she noticed my disappointment, and then she went on to say that maybe some of them would get to heaven. At which point, I said...there will probably be more of them than us.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 3:31 p.m.

fine

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 3:45 p.m.

Peace, so you are voting for Obama simply because he is black? I'm sorry that you were raised with the KKK but that has no bearing on who you choose to vote for, unless of course your decision is based upon Obama's race.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 7:06 p.m.

Peace has a hard time moving forward . He needs his vacation .

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 8:45 p.m.

No, I'm voting for Obama because he is not a Republican. Eight is enough...we can't take anymore. Thank you for helping me make that decision.

Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 9:32 p.m.

Well that sounds like a very educated decision.

HA!

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 10:31 p.m.

hey you know what, James Seale's conviction was over turned...you probably already knew tho.

http://www.wlbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=8...

Reputed Klansman's cold-case conviction overturned

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 11:25 p.m.

Wow...short vacation Peace...you don't have to defend Democrats until the end...there are plenty of others who will do so tirelessly and mindlessly...it's hard work to try to make Democratic policies somehow seem logical...you've worked hard...take a well deserved break...LOL.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 11:48 p.m.

Seriously Peace, how do your recent comments have anything to do with healthcare? It sounds like the agenda is race with you. Is race driving your politics or are your politics driving your race? Try taking a little of the angry black person "I'm gonna get even" edginess off and you might find some more sympathy in your political views. If you're not black why are you being so divisive?...dragging up and blaming for old wrongs doesn't make anything right, and all of us have been wrong in the past.

I think most folks want good health care for everyone in some way shape or form. The primary problem seems to be that people who can't afford cutting edge medicine, which is expensive, think they have a right to have it. I can't afford it, but I don't begrudge those who have worked and been more successful than I from receiving what they have earned and can afford. Fact is, that attitude is an entitlement mentality and if enacted into law will become an entitlement in fact.

Realistically, the US medical system is the best in the world, even for poor folks and getting better everyday. It is also a fact that much of the reason we have tax and monetary problems in the US is because of entitlements including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and a host of other programs.

Both political parties are guilty of creating and sustaining these programs, but it is driving the country to bankruptcy and the Democrats are the only ones talking about increasing, expanding and creating new entitlements.

To suggest that the taxpayer should pay for everyone's healthcare is nothing short of socialism and redistribution of the wealth...but I guess that is why you're a Democrat...after all if it was good enough for Huey P. Long, FDR, LBJ, Carter, Clinton, it must be good enough for you.

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 11:13 a.m.

I am not voting for Obama because he is not bald. Bald men make better presidents!

http://www.howies.co.uk/content.php?xId=...

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 11:43 a.m.

I'm not voting for Obama because I think you can't believe most of the things he says . There is no substance behind him and frankly I don't know if this country will ever be ready for him and his cronies .Too bad Colin Powell didnt want the job . He would have at least givin me something to consider .

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 2:05 p.m.

Colon has more hair.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 2:59 p.m.

I'd like you to point out healthcare as a "right" is spelled out in the Constitution? But while you're looking that up, lets just address your "expensive privilege for the few", statement. The fact is, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, 84% of Americans HAVE health insurance. Now my math may be fuzzy, but that seems like-not "the few", but "the many". In fact, the OVERWHELMING majority. In many cases, it may be expensive, but so are a LOT of things in this country that aren't "rights"...like auto insurance or homeowners insurance...which are things we are forced by law to have, but the government doesn't provide.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 3 p.m.

I'd like you to point out where healthcare as a "right" is spelled out in the Constitution? But while you're looking that up, lets just address your "expensive privilege for the few", statement. The fact is, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, 84% of Americans HAVE health insurance. Now my math may be fuzzy, but that seems like-not "the few", but "the many". In fact, the OVERWHELMING majority. In many cases, it may be expensive, but so are a LOT of things in this country that aren't "rights"...like auto insurance or homeowners insurance...which are things we are forced by law to have, but the government doesn't provide.

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 3:27 p.m.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 11:43 a.m.

I'm not voting for Obama because I think you can't believe most of the things he says .

When it comes to lying, no one can hold a Candle to Sister Sarah;

If John McCain and Sarah Palin were to say the moon was made of green cheese, we can be certain that Barack Obama and Joe Biden would pounce on it, and point out it's actually made of rock. And you just know the headline in the paper the next day would read: "CANDIDATES CLASH ON LUNAR LANDSCAPE."

Why doesn't somebody call Neil Armstrong? He's been there. Or go to the Smithsonian and open the glass case that contains a piece of the moon. The moon is a rock. That's a fact, Jack.

Facts are indeed stubborn things, but the McCain-Palin lies are more stubborn still.

In the face of demonstrable, provable, incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, McCain and Palin continue to assert that Gov. Palin opposed the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere." They do so in their speeches and ads, and their supporters say so on television until their pants are on fire. McCain and Palin also claim the Alaska governor opposes earmarks -- despite the fact that she's gotten her state so much pork she's at risk for trichinosis.

I was in the middle of a Neil Armstrong Moment when I was on CNN Tuesday morning. Rather than let McCain and Palin get away with their lie, anchor John Roberts played a videotape of Sarah Palin in a 2006 gubernatorial debate in which she endorsed the bridge from Ketchikan to Gravina Island saying, "I'm not going to stand in the way of progress that our congressional delegation and the position of strength that they have right now." Perhaps her supporters, noting Palin's support for banning books, teaching creationism and doubting global warming will argue that for her, calling the bridge "progress" was her way of saying she was against it.) But the Anchorage Daily News forecloses that option, reporting, "In September, 2006, Palin showed up in Ketchikan on her gubernatorial campaign and said the bridge was essential for the town's prosperity."

After the videotape ran, I said the media was at fault for letting Palin and McCain get away with "flat out lies." GOP strategist Alex Castellanos manfully tried to shine a cow patty, saying, "The amazing thing about Sarah Palin is when she became governor she actually stood up and said no."

Increasingly frustrated, I pointed out that just was not true, and the "debate" continued.

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 3:29 p.m.

Most of political debate is subjective: who's more qualified, who's more compassionate, whose experience is more relevant, who has better ideas on health care or energy or global warming or the economy? There is no Objective Truth on those matters, and debate -- even when voices are sometimes raised -- can help voters decide who they agree with. On those matters of subjective judgment it's perfectly appropriate for the media to hold the coats of the candidates and let them fight it out.

But facts ought not be debatable. The media have an obligation to point out when a politician is lying about a matter of fact, but the right-wing attack machine has so cowed some of them you can almost hear them moo. Steve Schmidt, McCain's top dog, is a brilliant and audacious strategist. His candidate has had the most favorable press coverage of any politician of the last century -- fawning, adoring, sycophantic press coverage. And yet he is brutalizing the press, waterboarding them into pretending that whether Gov. Palin supported the "Bridge to Nowhere," or hired an Abramoff-connected lobbyist to secure massive earmarks are somehow debatable.

The real debate is over whether the media will be vigilant watchdogs, sounding the alarm when McCain and Palin lie, or fall back to the role they've played for most of McCain's career: lapdog.

Posted by Resigned (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 5:01 p.m.

"[McCain]... has had the most favorable press coverage of any politician of the last century"??

Hippie should know a lot about the moon-He must be from there!

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 7:02 p.m.

No Resigned, actually I started out in the Natchez area, 68 Years ago. I have been half way around the world several times since then, so I haven't been brainwashed or prejudiced by local Politics. I have learned to think for myself, by geting my information from many different sources.

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 7:10 p.m.

I can tell a lot about you already. You are obviously a Republican, because just like your Candidate, when you don't have anything intelligent to say, you just start slinging slurs at people you don't know, in the hope of changing the subject.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 7:52 p.m.

Oldhippie01...McCain and Palin aren't lying...Palin was for the bridge until she learned the facts of how few people it would help and how many politicians pockets it would line...then she was against it in a big way...have you ever changed your mind when evidence indicated that you were wrong...I bet not, otherwise, you'd be a Republican.

Your comments about McCain not receiving media scrutiny is shear bunk...throughout this whole campaign the majority of the liberal media has annointed Obama as their wonderchild.

After 68 years you'd think that one would have collected some experience, i.e. the mistakes a person has learned from...apparently you have't gained any and just continue to repeat your mistakes...the Democratic party couldn't survive except for people like you.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 10:51 p.m.

Sam, cousin Sam, whatever I am, I must be the same as Sam. Do you eat green eggs and ham, Sam I am? Are you black or white? Obama is both, so how can you accuse me of voting for him because of his race, unless you accuse me of voting for mixed race? Ah do like a rainbow. To be perfectly honest, I'm voting against the Republican hate, the Republican lies, and the Republican wars where people die. I dunno Sam, maybe I was simply responding to the other comments, which also didn't say one thing about healthcare, but you only noticed me, as usual, lol. I just don't know what it is about me that makes me stick out so much to Sam. You ignored the whole page of comments and pounced on mine. Well, maybe I should have said I was gonna take a recess, vacation excited yall too much.

Ummm, Sam, what did you say about healthcare?

People with pre-existing conditions can't just go out and purchase healthcare. Obama's plan will change the way insurance companies can turn sick people away and not give them coverage. Obama's plan will keep insurance companies from cancelling coverage of sick people after they've become ill and had to use the coverage that those sick people paid premiums for in good faith. I can only hope that Obama's insurance reform will straighten out more than just health insurance. For a long long time, I've thought that insurance needed to be reformed.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 11:11 p.m.

Peace...don't recall saying anything about race or racism in this blog...if I did it was surely to condemn racism as I always do.

As for Republican hate, Republican lies and Republican wars...the hatred of late seems mostly to be the realm of the Democrats with their vitriolic personal attacks, Republicans want to help people help themselves...the lies seem to mainly be coming from Obama saying he is somehow different while practicing old school corrupt Chicago politics.

McCain is simply telling the simple truth to the American people...and also consider that far more people have been killed in Democratic initiated wars than those initiated by Republicans...do you want me to list them?...I could also argue that part of the reason we're in Iraq and Afghanistan is because Bill Clinton did nothing about them when he had the chance to do it quickly and with little bloodshed.

Regarding healthcare...in this circumstance I happen to agree that insurance should be available for people with pre-existing conditions, however, there should be a waiting period before those pre-existing conditions would be covered...and guess what!...that's the way it works now.

I also agree that people's insurance shouldn't be cancelled when they get sick, but guess what!...that's the way it works now.

What we really should do is to make it mandatory that all the folks carry minimal health insurance similar to the way we do auto insurance. People should pay something, no matter how little, it would at least be symbolic. It is contemptable to me to expect the taxpayer to pay for top notch health care for people who refuse to be productive to society and in many cases work to subvert it. That's what Obama wants...totally socialized health care...that dog won't hunt...Hillary found that out the hard way.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 11:13 p.m.

BTW...you're not hurting my feelings with the Dr. Seuss stuff...in fact, there are many people who know me only as "Sam I Am, The Cat In The Hat" since that's the way I've introduced myself many times just to keep them from having to remember the last name...the joke is on you...LOL.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 11:41 p.m.

OK...went back further and re-read my previous post...Peace, I responded to you bringing race into the healthcare issue and cried foul...indeed it was.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 11:44 p.m.

sam you were the one who told me that sam I am stuff, and I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings. I didn't think I could. Maybe some day we'll be at the same family gathering, or something, and I will come up to you and say howdy cousin. I won't forget your name, it's too much like my cousins.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 11:47 p.m.

Goodnite Sam.

Posted by presby (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 8:19 a.m.

It,s never an issue for the illegals,and the ones who don,t work but just have their boyfriends drop by to pay the car note,etc. cause theirs is free

Posted by natchezsouthside (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 9:07 a.m.

"I also agree that people's insurance shouldn't be cancelled when they get sick, but guess what!...that's the way it works now."

So I guess you will be OK with it when it happens to you, eh sammohon? Good luck on welfare.

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 9:26 a.m.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on September 10, 2008 at 7:52 p.m.

Oldhippie01...McCain and Palin aren't lying...Palin was for the bridge until she learned the facts of how few people it would help and how many politicians pockets it would line..<<< Lie #1.. She was for it until Congress cut the Funding for it>>>>>.then she was against it in a big way.<<<<<<< BUT, She kept the $280M and That the State had already recieved and spent it..>>>>>>>>>have you ever changed your mind when evidence indicated that you were wrong..<<<<<< Yes, more times than I can count>>>>.I bet not,<<<<<<< How Much???>>>>>>> otherwise, you'd be a Republican.<<<<<< Not unless they return to the Party they started out as,( The Party of Lincon), when they actually practiced what they Preached>>>>>>>.<< On that note don't you feel a little ashamed of a good Christian, Tongue talking, Bible Thumping, "Sister Sarah" repeating the same lies every day and being broadcast all over the World, along with the proof that they are, in FACT LIES. You for got to mention the one about Fireing the COOK, when in fact, all she did was to pay her for another Job, while she continued to COOK, as she had previously. AND THEN, there is the one about selling the "State Jet" on ebay,(AT A PROFIT), when IN FACT she lost the State 20K/ Mo. trying to sell it on ebay, before finally selling it AT A $600,000.00 LOSS, through a Broker. WE won't get into "TROOPER
GATE" yet, because the Fat Lady hasn't sang on that one, but shes HUMMING<LOL>

After 68 years you'd think that one would have collected some experience,<<<<<< Oh yes, lots and lots of that>>>>>> i.e. the mistakes a person has learned from...apparently you have't gained any<<<<<<<<<< Obviously, you have no idea who,( you are talking to) or what you are talking about , but as a typical Republican you feel obligated to lash out and try to drag anyone who dis-agrees with you, down to your level>>>>>>and just continue to repeat your mistakes...the Democratic party couldn't survive except for people like you.<<< I am honored to do what I can for the Survival of my Country from the Dictators of the "REPUBLICAN PARTY". Unfortunatly I only have one Vote. Speaking of "Service" I am also a Nam.Vet., 57-65. did you ever serve anything, or anyone other than yourself?? ( just curious)

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 10:04 a.m.

Hi ya'll , today is the 7th anniversary of 9/11 . How about a moment of silence between us Americans ? This is starting to sound triviel . Old hippie , thank you for fighting for your country in Vietnam . God bless America and help us make the right choice in November .

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 10:55 a.m.

southernbelle<< Yes Belle, I remember exactly where I was at when I learned of the Attack. I have a photo of myself and several Co-Workers taken on the 25th floor of a 36 story we were building up in Jersey City, with the World Trade Center in the background. That was in 1987. I thought it was a "cheap shot" for McCain to use that footage at his Convention for Political reasons. To me that shows a callousnes toward all who lost friends and Loved ones in that tragedy. (Just my opinion)

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 1:30 p.m.

The comment I copied and pasted below by happybunny worries me, because it makes me wonder if she (and others like her) believe that we could use another event to bring us all back together for more flag waving, and that would indeed be very sad. With a little google search one can find where that very statement has been made from those who are in high places about using fear to control the masses.

God knows, and from Him they can never hide. (Luke 8:17-18) Everything that is hidden will become clear, and every secret thing will be made known. So be careful how you listen. Those who have understanding will be given more. But those who do not have understanding, even what they think they have will be taken away from them."

((Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 9, 2008 at 12:05 p.m.

You are right SouthernBelle, it's like after the events of 9/11 when most Americans found a renewed sense of patriotism. They began flying the American flag daily. It's not that they loved their country any less prior to 9/11, it just takes a tragedy sometimes to make us realize our true feelings.))

Posted by eagle1 (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 1:39 p.m.

Yes oldhippie01 that is just your opinion. Democrats try their best to undermine all efforts to make this a safer country while McCain is doing the opposite. As he stated, he'd rather lose an election than lose a war. That's something you won't hear from any Dem. Democrats don't won't to envoke memories of 9/11 because it reminds Joe Public how weak the Dems are on national defense.

Bush has kept us safe from attacks on US soil for the last seven years since 9/11. He doesn't get enough credit for that because like a certain pundit has stated, there is no media coverage when another 9/11 doesn't happen. As a matter of fact there was a recent poll that showed many New Yorkers already worry that memories of 9/11 are beginning to fade. We should always be reminded of 9/11 and what threats we face worldwide. Dems can continue to deny and place blame while hiding behind popular opinion polls while Bush and McCain do the dirty work at the expense of their reputation. Turns out, the latter is right. It's called leadership.

Posted by eagle1 (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 2:07 p.m.

Also oldhippie01. Palin has an 80% approval rating in Alaska, those people adore her. So whatever she's doing up there, whether you agree or disagree, the voters love her. Also, it's a freakin bridge. Who cares if she was for or against it, ultimately she's the one that stopped it from happening. But it's not the equivalent as saying you are for a war and then when it's politically advantageous you are suddenly against AFTER it's already begun. Thank you very little John Kerry. Lives were (and still are) at stake. What a coward.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 2:16 p.m.

We are not responsible for what other countries do . We are responsible for the things our leaders do because we are given the right to vote them in or out of an office . If we ignore this right , it will go away . Don't ignore it . Instead of playing the blame game on our own countrymen ,lets try to put some respect on the very people we have trusted in high government to make the right decisions . Our government had some really tough choices to make in the past and I believe at the heart of things those decisions were made in our best interest . I know some of ya'll believe you could have done better . I don't believe I'm that smart . Our government needs improving . It needed improving in 2000' and all the years before that . I recognize we haven't had another attack on America soil since 9/11 and that makes me feel somewhat better but as long as I live I will never forget and let down my guard . Neither will the rest of this country . We fuss about race and gender and money and even lipstick but when it gets right down to the nitty gritty we will gladly stand up and fight for our rights together . We need a proven leader to lead this nation forward so we can continue to be better people living in a better country .

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 3:38 p.m.

Peace...you are tiresome. Of course I do not wish another catastrophy like 9/11 will occur. It's ridiculous that you read that into my comment. Go back on vacation.
Your fellow democrats should find away to strip you of all access to google.

Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 3:42 p.m.

Well said sammohan and eagle1.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 5:10 p.m.

If oldhippie was in Vietnam from 57 to 65, he is way more than just your average G.I. Joe.

Posted by oldhippie01 (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 8:52 p.m.

Posted by Peace007 (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 5:10 p.m.

If oldhippie was in Vietnam from 57 to 65, he is way more than just your average G.I. Joe.

<< I guess I should have spelled it out more clearly Peace. I was in the Military from 1957 to 1975 and that I am a Vietnam Vet., needless to say, I wasn't in Nam. the entire time>>

As for you Eagle, I've heard that "Propaganda" so many times that it makes me want tp puke, so I won't get into a verbal Crap slinging contest with you. You will just have to get used to living in a world with us Democrats, because you are going to have a BLACK President soon,( he he he). I'de give a hundred dollars to see the look on your Face on Nov 5 LOL, LMAO, ROTFL!!!!!!!