Posted by ntz155 (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 12:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wait a minute. Did I read this correctly or is there a mistake? "School board member Thelma Newsome" teaches across the river in Ferriday???? Is she on the the Natchez School Board? A level 2 school...how embarrassing.
That is why my child attends a private school.

Posted by gemccull (Gary McCullars) on March 6, 2008 at 4:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.natchezdemocrat.com/news/2007...

Posted by gemccull (Gary McCullars) on March 6, 2008 at 4:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Consultants were brought to the schools to see what could be done to improve the teaching process, school officials said."

Okay, the school spent money for consultants. What are we doing or trying to do with their recommendation(s)?

“The reality is there are problems in the school district, serious, serious problems,” she said. “If communication is not there then all you’re doing is blowing hot air.”

What serious problems have been identified by the school board and what are the action plans? (sarcasm) Or is it that the board cannot communticate those plans??

Posted by cherron (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 5:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mrs. Newsome is a great teacher, she used to teach in natchez. One of the main problems in the system is that we don't have many teachers like Mrs. Newsome. She showed compasion for teaching, the teachers now only teach (I mean work, or attend work) for a paycheck.

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 6:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

So, I am reading that phil is going to take it under advisement and go into executive session to discuss it with the super.
I guess that means he will laugh about it till he and super hurt while they collect the big checks...and they know that nobody is going to do a thing....not even next November......

Posted by npc (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Cherron, the problem is that you don't have parents that care about their children's education. I can see where teachers get tired of fighting the fight. You try and discipline a child and the parents come to school and cuss the teachers out because they believe their little angel over the teacher. If I got in trouble at school, I got paddled at school, spanked when my mother picked me up and beaten when my father got home. I assure you, I didn't act up again. Oh, and they didn't care what I had to say. The nation is dealing with problem everywhere; not enough fathers in the home in my opinion. To many single moms raising kids.

Posted by alphamale (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The problem is they took the GOD and the PADDLE from the schools NATION WIDE.

Posted by drawpaintsing (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I got the same thing, npc. Man, I flinge thinking about it, but look at where I am today. You are correct. It doesn't take a rocket science to see that discipline starts at home. But it's sad to say that. Some of these children's parents don't do what they have to do. Some are still out partying all night, and some of these children are raising themselves and their siblings. It's sad to say, but it is true. Parents play the most important role in how their child's future life turn out. Some parents send their kids to school just so they (the parent) can have some hours to relax. They are not concerned about their child's behavior in class, their homework, or even how they do on standard tests. Some don't even care whether their child fail a grade or not. I hurt for the child that has this type of parent. Having a father in the home don't always make things better, because most men today aren't like they were when you and I were growing up. Their are a large number of fathers, who have sons, who spend time hanging with their friends. The mother is at home with their son trying to teach him how to be a man. Some women raise good men and women by themselves.

I know that I have gotten off the subject a little bit, but if all parents do what they are responsible for doing, it will help a lot. Schools, public or private, need parental involvement. My son's face light up when I visit his classroom. He don't know when I'm coming either. Ask him what he would get if I get a bad report from his teacher.

Posted by goodwitch2008 (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm so glad I'm graduating this year...

Posted by darlysings (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm sorry.. but not all teachers show up just for a paycheck... Please do not make such general comments... Thank you

Posted by justice (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Alphamale I agree with your comment . Also I don't blame any teacher who decides to quit and go to greener pastures .

Posted by straightshooter1 (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 9:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

NPC, Alpha, and Draw...you are all correct. There are a multitude of problems in the public school system. All of them start at home with the parents. If parents don't care enough to STAY involved with their children, allow the teachers to dicipline their children, and teach their children morals and values, then the problems will never be solved.

I have family who teach who have been cursed by students(bald-headed MFer) and hit by students and knocked down and those students were back in class the next day. WHY!!!? Because of parents who don't take responsibility for their children and administrative personel who are afraid to confront the parents about their childrens behavior. Those children should have been expelled and when they got home should have had their butts whipped.

Our society is so concerned with being politically correct that we have lost sight of the truth...the children suffer if they aren't raised with love and dicipline and they don't become loving, caring, productive adults later in life. They only learn to blame their many problems on others.

Posted by maryhelpme (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 9:04 a.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am so glad to read so much clear logical conservative thinking here today

God Bless you all

and let's back up Dr. Wright and call your aldermen and supervisors and make things happen for a better Natchez/Adams Co

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 10:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I talked with Dr. Wright this morning

there will be another meeting soon

try to attend and let's show a unified community that DEMANDS a better school system- let's prove that we can move past the preconcieved ideas that there is a racial divide in our community, and that we can have a better Natchez/Adams Co

Posted by 4real (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

One thing that people are not noticing is that the largest group of the children in our public schools are of one race. The parents of these children should be working along with the rest of the community to make sure their children are getting the best education possible. One problem I have noticed at the schools is that children absolutely do not care about education. A very small percent of the children in grades 5-9 care about learning. Most children are excited about school from Pre-K to 4th grade and then from 11th to 12th. The 10th graders are trying to find themselves somemore, and the 5th-9th graders don't know who they are. Negative peer influence is easily passed among students during these years. When a child turns 11 or 12 years old, he or she has made the decision on whether or not he or she is going to graduate from school.The state requires them to be in school until a certain age is reached, and they know that. Some of them cause problems in classrooms because they don't want to be there. The people who are arguing against the superintendent and what he has or has not done , do not have children in this district or their children have already graduated or about to graduate. Another thing, their children are some of the most successful students in the district. Why? Because they were fortunate enough to have parents who could spend more time with them and took a strong interest in their education. All parents do not have a blueprint for what they want their children to do so far as education is concerned. The superintendent can not save these children from social issues that have led them to not graduate or take an attentive approach to education. I'm not taking up for Dr. Morris, and I'm not putting the parents down because I have children in this district. My children happen to be those who are fortunate to have a parent who takes interest in their education. My children have benefit from the Natchez Adams School District. I am a product of the district, and I consider myself successful.

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

4real- I see the same phenomena of a lack of motivation in the middle school age also outside of school

It's a real problem with that age group being LOST

I teach a lot of kids martial arts -- 6-12 or 13 yr olds really apply themselves, then there is a skip to about age 16-18 that take themselves seriously and understand the need for training and personal improvement

All the more indication of a strong educational system that demands and gets results.

Bottom line is-- it's up to us to make a difference, so join in and let's DO IT!!

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

4real - my child has already graduate, and now that I look back, I think she could have received more benefit, her ACT scores could have been better, she was also sexually assaulted in the hallway

things could have been better for her

Posted by drawpaintsing (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

4real, you are correct about the 5th-9th graders. My father was a 5th-6th grade Math teacher at Jefferson County Middle School. He taught for 31 years. He said by his experiences during the last 6 six years of his career, that the grade averages from children in the 5th grade dropped drastically from their 4th grade year. He also said that the number of children that were not as interested in learning also grew. So, what really happens with the grade change or age change. Is it their peer influences? I'm wondering, because my son will be 5th grade next year. I know then I'll have to buckle down on him a little harder, because he is very influential. I notice that he act like whoever he is around. Many of you may say or think that since I am not from Natchez, it shouldn't be my concern. I just enjoy the discussions. You may notice that I don't mention or comment on what needs to be done in the Natchez public school district. I speak about public schools generally.

Posted by 4real (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Count me in Krogers, because I want to make sure that one day there is Social Security for people my age when we get old. I will have a retirement plan to depend on, but some may not. The parents are in my age group, and they just don't seem to understand the future image of their children. I work with children everyday, and I give them 200%. I say 200% because if I'm not satisfied with the first 100% of my effort, I dig deep down inside and give them somemore.

Posted by 4real (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

To Krogers: I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's situation. That is one of those times when you don't let bad things slide. I will tell any student I come in contact with to report all violations to me,and I will follow up on everything I report to my supervisors. That's a social problem. Anytime a student thinks it is ok to violate someone else's space, that child has not been taught a few things. In a classroom, the teacher steps out of his/her given title,"TEACHER", and becomes the counselor, doctor, preacher, mother, father, and other needed characters in a child's life. Parents depend on teachers to do things they can't do believe it or not. This is why the entire community needs to recognize their positons in this education cycle.

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

let me clarify, the assault was a minor thing, not like rape, nothing violent , just uninvited touching, so I didn't make a big deal out of it, but it still upset my daughter

Posted by blessedmommy (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Many people have taken the perspective that if you can't fix what's broken then screw it! That is why so many of our Natchez youth are attending private schools. Those of us that are involved in our children's lives will attest to the fact that it does not matter what you do or say things don't change in this school system. I graduated from NHS in 1999, before it got really bad. Just recently I saw one of my old teachers and asked if they were still at NHS and they said "no, it had just gotten too hard to handle." I replied that I wasn't sending my child to public schools because they don't provide safe, quality education, and that all the good teachers were gone. The reply I got shocked me! This teacher that had been so involved in our learning experiences, who spent hours and hours making sure we knew the material, and even gave us extra help after school and during lunch (and sometimes on subjects other than what she taught), said to me " Thank God my kids are grown, because I would prostitute myself before I would send one of mine to Natchez Public Schools." That right there, coming from someone I respect and look up to, told me that I made the right decision to not send my child to public schools. Oh, and also this came from a black teacher so before you get to thinking it's a racial thing, think again. We need to bring back those tough love educators like some of our teachers were. They pushed us to succeed and they cared if we did or not! I remember being so afraid my freshman year because I had the dreaded Mrs. Carlock, and you know what, she loved us all and pushed us to excell, mediocre didn't fly in her class, and in later years we appreciated her dedication to us and our education. How I wish they could bring the school I remember back, because it was fun and I learned a great deal. I graduated with honors and had a full paid scholarship to the college that I chose to attend, so at some point the public schools were decent. Why can't we fix it?!

Posted by squeetlebomb (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am shocked to hear that a Ferriday school teacher was chosen by the mayor over Mrs. Mayo. I wish he would explain why. Mrs. Mayo has given so much to this school district already. I think she would have been the obvious choice. Something sure smells bad about his choice. But ever since his choice to take a very good school system to court and completely change it for no good reason at all has been stinking up this whole town ever since his decision. I still can't believe he was elected mayor after he singlehanded ruined our public school system.

Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 1:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am not shocked to hear of things that Wests does! Seems like he's operates on a different "frequency" when conducting City Business or the Taxpayer's Business! School Board members should be from Natchez and Adams County! They also need to be elected!

Posted by shedevil (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

squeetlebomb....Im not shocked over this..Mrs Mayo is a wonderful lady & bucket is an idiot...she would have been a great asset to the public school system...but I guess she just wasnt dark enough

Posted by Lilsister (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Blessedmom, I taught at Mc Laurin at the time Mrs.Carlock and Mr. Carlock were there. They are both great people, in fact, all the teachers were good and concerned about their students and the learning environment. I do believe that because most us lived in Natchez and had children, relatives, neighbors, and friends in the schools,we had a vested interest in this community. We paid taxes and also shopped in our community, and there was community pride. This is what is missing today because most administrators, and teachers live outside the area. They are not here to cheer children on at baseball games, at the playgrounds, teen centers, churches and other activities that involve our youth. Children need encouragement,and some parents need help with parenting skills. Children cannot pick the family that they are born into, or choose their parents. Sure, we had troubled students even when you were in school, but instead of blaming parent for all the problems, we became surrogate parents. We also became mentors to parents and counselors to those who needed guidance. I hope our high paid consultants have given some of this advice to our teachers.

Posted by blessedmommy (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Exactly, we have parents blaming teachers and teachers blaming parents, but no one is stepping up to the plate and doing what is right. And guess who suffers?! Our children! I agree we had some really great educators when I was in school and I am so thankful that my experience in school was not what has become today! I owe alot to people like Mrs. Carlock, Mrs. West, Mrs. McMullen, Mr. Green, and many others! We need some more like them teaching our children today, because not only did we learn our lessons but we learned about manners and respect! God bless those wonderful teachers they deserve medals because just like you said they were surrogate parents to some of us!

Posted by Lilsister (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To set the record straight, Mrs. Thelma Newsome is a Natchezian and a product herself of the Adams County School District. In fact, she retired form the Natchez District. She was a former principal, and when she retired, she was the Director of Federal Programs. I too know Mrs. Mayo and she was up against Thelma for this position, but the real people know that Thelma is in a class all by herself when it comes to excellence. Thelma is also a consultant for the MS State Department of Education.
If there had been a program like the one Louisiana has where retired teachers can return to the classroom, Thelma and others like her probably would be back giving our little darling some compassion, and motivating them to learn.

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I remember the Carlocks, from Montebello (McLaurin) and it must have been in the late 60's, they really did care.

I hope they are doing ok?

I talked with my county supervisor today about all this, and get ready for some changes people,

way to go Dr. Wright!!

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 3:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

One thing that is working with other schools, I have heard that the Gulf coast area public schools are doing this, and I think Port Gibson school too, I'm not sure but----

Schools are sending a form home with the students asking for the parents to give permission for spanking in the school and for a waiver of lawsuit

Seperate kids that CAN be spanked from the kids that CANNOT be spanked entirely.

I think you will see a BIG difference in behavior and results of LEARNING and ATTITUDE of respect towards teachers between these two seperated groups. I don't think that it would take a lot of complicated procedures to institute. The cost would be about $10 per paddle per classroom.

I remember when Bob Dearing was principal of Bradon Elementary, that big paddle was hanging outside his office and EVERY student saw that thing EVERY morning. I enjoyed school there and I feel like I learned what I was supposed to, and I don't remember Mr. Dearing having to actually use that paddle often, but he did when he needed to. I don't know why the school system has gotten so weakkneed and spineless in regards to meating out proper punishment for smartmouthed kids, which is what I think our basic problem is. I don't think our kids are stupid, quite the contrary they are smart and know exactly what they can get away with, and will.

Posted by natsanus (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We can send our young men and women to war to die for their country but don't allow teachers to spank them for misbehaving and disrespect in the classroom. Bring back God and the paddle I am sure both will bring about a change.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 3:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

if you can't feed them, don't breed them.

Posted by hollywood (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 4:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How funny,,, that is why teachers are leaving natchez and coming to Vidalia,,, I say build a huge alternative school to send problem students and educate those students who want to be educated.... I can't believe a school board member would admit she has left the county to teach!!

Posted by thick1982 (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 5:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have noticed a lot of comments about teachers being there just for the paychecks & benefits. What about teacher’s assistants? When my child was younger he had a teacher assistant in his class. After a period of time I noticed that the teacher assistant would always be the one teaching the class. So I asked my child what does his teacher do and he said nothing she sits at the computer. Well I felt like the teacher assistant should have been the teacher. She spent more time with them and made sure they learned and understood the lesson. On every job I have noticed that the “little people” … cafeteria workers, janitors, teacher assistants, clerical, etc is the backbone of the workplace but is never recognized for their work. So one day I seen the teacher assistant outside of the school and I asked her why she wasn’t a teacher and she said she was in college but couldn’t pass the teacher’s test. I told her not to give up because she would make an excellent teacher. She stated she was tired of doing all the work and receives little pay and most of all not getting credit when credit was due. She even went on to say that she did all the work but the teacher got all the credit. Right then I started to feel bad. I could have reported the teacher but I don’t like to get anyone in trouble and besides I didn’t do it for the teacher I did it for the assistant. We all know when someone gets in trouble they want to blame others and I felt like the assistant didn’t need to be in any mess. Needless to say this was a few years ago and I don’t know if the assistant became a teacher.

In other words, everybody is pointing the finger and nobody wants to take the blame for things going on. I’m a concern parent and I stays on my children to do right and give respect to everybody no matter who they are…cafeteria workers, janitors, teacher assistants, and/or clerical. I tell them school is a place for learning and its up to them to accept the challenge.

Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 5:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

krogers, I agree with you on this. I had Bruce Davis as Principal when I was at Braden. Buck owens at Martin Jr. High would hit you once with a paddle and that was enough to get your act together for a long time...lol...Gil Morris was a history teacher at Martin and he would pick you up off the floor when he hit you with a paddle.

Bring them back or tell the parents to keep their kids at home if they do not want them paddled...lol...

Posted by justdatruth (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 6:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DR. EDNEY MUST GO ! Where did he get his Dr.'s degree from and he must think we are all dumb as cavemen or something. I was at meeting and he started an uproar ( don't know why this is not in paper ) by saying that ALL the schools are level two because of the RIOT that happened at the middle school over a month before the test was taken????????? After several people disagreed with this dumfounded remark by the bitter school board president, Mr. Hooper got up and intelligently disagreed with Edney and it was obvious that he still takes pride in the school. He told Edney that if anything his school HELPED NHS' test scores because 100% of his 8th grade students passed the 9th-10th grade Algebra test. The last time I checked NHS had FIVE principals and he ran Lewis by himself so how can you blame him for their 5 people's failures. He also said that people have not been told and board members don't know that last year was the first year Special Education students were tested on their ACTUAL grade level when in past you had 8th grade sped students taking 2nd and 3rd grade tests. This pulled his schools scores down but they were STILL higher than NHS and Morgantown. I checked the numbers on net and saw that over 95% of SPED students at Lewis scored minimal ( lowest ) on MCT tests. They were still basically a 2.9 and a 3.0 is a Successful school. He said that it's not fair for he and his teachers to be held accountable for Alternative School students test scores because they have never been at his school and many that were tested had missed between 20 and 80 days or more from school and questioned the decision to give Youth detention detainees three different tests on the same day. I have been told by teachers at Alt. school that many of the students draw gang signs on their tests and turn them in not caring about the damage. Mr. Hooper said that his students were tested several time at start of year and many were on a 2nd 3rd and 4th grade level. He also reminded Edney that he used to mail congratulatory letters to him every year he had a LEVEL FIVE school in PG so he knows what it takes to get good scores before he said that NONE of them came on his campus ONE time last year. Doesn't K. Taylor live right across the street from this school ? Shows how much they care . He like others were let go and they did not even give him a reason or due process. Morris said he didn't have too because it was his first year in Nathcez? Karma is a ..... and the committe at least has MANY REASONS to get rid of Morris !

Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 6:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS, pay a half million dollars and nothing to show for it. I guess if the city can do and get away with it the schools think they can get away with it also. This town spent a million redoing the city auditorium. Why couldn't the school spend a 1/2 million on a small jail on campus for the thugs at school, teach the problem students there so the good ones can breathe in the classroom. This kind of stuff makes my blood boil!

Posted by justdatruth (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 7:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In support of Mrs. Newsome, she is a NATCHEZ teacher for over 30 yrs. Mrs. Mayo is ok too but she worked UNDER Morris and she is too buddy-buddy with him to hold him accountable. this would be a conflict of interest. The only board members that care are the new ones, Newsome and Matilda Stephens. Mrs. Steckler just got the position due to the death of her husband and their kids when to Private schools as well. She just agrees with whatever Morris says and does not have a position or comment on anything. We need one more board member who cares and we ( those that want the best for our entire community ) will have the majority ! Taylor looked like he was about to cry last night, hilarious. Does he have any kids that attend (ed) public schools or any at all for that point. Exile the following people to an island : Morris will be Gilligan. Edney will be the Professor, Steckler will be Mary Ann and we'll make up a new character for Taylor. Call VH1 or MTV it will be hilarious and good to help promote tourism in Natchez as well.

Posted by texasranger (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 8:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This whole article is a joke. A goat roping might be a good phrase. All of a sudden after hitting bottom somebody hires a consultant. You would think that maybe politicans and maybe the principal and teachers could put their heads togather..their went another $465,000 down the tubes. Like the man at work said about Son of Sam. They didn,t have to evaluate the man. He was just mean. Any fool could see that.

Posted by texasranger (anonymous) on March 6, 2008 at 8:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Looks like the need to hang that wooden paddle with the holes in it back in MIss Jack,s arithmitic room.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on March 7, 2008 at 5:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"The only way we will get our kids educated is to get rid of the educators that are meley collecting a check.our kids deserve more than they have as administrators."
-------------------------------------------------------------

it isn't the teachers/administrators/school.....

it's THE PARENTS (OR LACK THEREOF).

Posted by hollywood (anonymous) on March 7, 2008 at 8:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We are all wasting our time here. Until the parents are held more accountable for their children's actions, teaching cannot take place... before you can educate a child, you must clothe, feed, and show them you care --- there is a parenting problem in this country,,, not just in Natchez.

Posted by taledatruth (anonymous) on March 7, 2008 at 10:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Justdatruth, I read the ediotrial today. It is so sad that Fred Marsillias made the statemet he did about parents. His school is level 2. What is he doing all day except nodding and boating all night..

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 8, 2008 at 12:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have substituted at Natchez High and I can tell you that what these kids need more than anything is a paddle across their backside. When I grew up, I got one at school and then another at home because my parents backed the teacher. My parents also showed a concern about my education, and I can tell you it was very significant. I heard Franklin County still has corporal punishment, and I hear very good things about that school. They are proof that public schooling does work if managed effectively. Unfortunatley, there are states who intiate legislation looking to ban parents from spanking their children much less a teacher or principal. There is an inverse correlation between the decrease in corporal punishment and the increase in disciplinary problems in our school, and it doesn't take a genius to see the connection.

Posted by Negotiator (anonymous) on March 8, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If anyone here thinks Natchez is hurting now, just wait. By offering Level 2 schools, no business or industry will darken the proverbial door.

Something had better happen to get the public school system back on tract and it had better be immediately.

There are no options.

With Level 2 schools, expect third world conditions.