Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on March 19, 2008 at 11:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Just realize that Owhampy's minister is a "loon" as the new one is to! You need listen to the new one! With comments like the minister made is causing problems! I still feel that America can not trust someone like him with no experience. He reminds me so much of the ex- Jimmy Carter!

Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 12:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Martin Luther has turned in his grave many times in the past over the black leadership in this country. Or may I say lack of leadership.

Posted by hitormiss (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 12:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

NatchezEnema, the real question is not what Martin Luther King thinks of black leadership but what does Christ think about your racist statement?

Posted by The_Punisher (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 1:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think it's pathetic that this man is being raked over the coals for some statements that his pastor said. I too have sat in a church and heard statements from a pastor that I totally disagreed with, does one actually think that during the civil rights movement black preachers were in churches saying "love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek?" You think that the white preachers down south were saying "c'mon folks let's embrace them (blacks) as our brothers, sisters and equals." HELL NO!! People were angry on both sides of the racial fence, some still are, that's just being real.

The fact is this: The political machine has NOTHING on Obama, so they go after his goofy pastor to stop his momentum. He's not in a public bathroom trying to pick up a male prostitute, or paying thousands of dollars on high priced hookers, he didn't sent any email with homosexual overtones to a teenage campaign worker, he's not caught up on in any bribery scandal and the cops didn't catch him with a cigar box full of oxycontin. There are no women out there to claim that he's their child's father or to claim that they've had affairs with him. They have nothing, so they attack his pastor. So understand now that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for the words and actions of people that you choose to associate with.

It's too bad that this country didn't have this mentality during the last two elections, if so the American people could have held George W.s feet to the fire over the actions of his grandfather Prescott who was said to have had Nazi connections during WWII. Do you think that it would have bothered some people if they thought that this man who wanted to be president had a grandfather who may have supported the people that massacred millions, institutionalized mass genocide, and made words like Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Treblinka, Sobibor, Dachau, Plazow, Oranienburg and countless others a testament to man's inhumanity twoards his fellow man. WOULD THIS HAVE MATTERED TO SOME OF THE CITIZENS OF THE GREAT STATE OF MISSISSIPPI?..........................................probably not.

Posted by frogprincenessntz (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There are many people who have expressed their dismay that they voted for Sen. Obama since the leadership of his church has been given definition through the airing of his sermons. The man preaches hatred. That is not Christianity in any form. The embracing of Islamic leaders is also not Christian. We are instructed to not receive or wish well those who do not believe in Christ as the crucified, risen Son of God. Islamics do not. To choose to belong to such a congregation for twenty years says one of two things...either he did not attend this church after all, or he could stomach the rhetoric because he believed it.

My family was members of a local church when the pastor appointed a new Sunday School teacher for the adult couples class. This teacher's wife tried to call him down, but he made slurring statements about blacks. We left that church that day and did not return. My husband was a new Christian and it was my responsibility to make sure he was not influenced wrongly by this teacher. If you believe the Bible, you have to believe that God made all races. He did not tell us that he made one superior to the other.

Posted by Bar_Louie (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 5:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Punisher, I couln't have said it better...!!!

Posted by supertrucker47 (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 5:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

SUPERDELAGETS NEED TO PLEDGE THERE VOTE TO WHO WON THE STATE.IF THEY DONT THEY SHOULD BE ARRESTED.OBAMA LEADS IN THE POPULAR VOTE AND DELAGETS.THIS MAN WILL BE THE PRESIDENT.GO OBAMA!!!!!!!!!

Posted by ford30 (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 6:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

well i'm sticking with John McCain myself..

Posted by thetinman (Keith Reynolds) on March 20, 2008 at 6:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I know I have my views, but one needs to over come whatever they can to get along with our fellow brother of and another color.
We can sit and talk about race, but I know as a white man, I am tired of racism mainly at the white mans expense. ENOUGH already. Let's face it, racism is on both sides of the fence here. Ounce we can tell ourselves both black and white this is true on both parts, there will NEVER be no healing.

I know in these troublesome times, we are going to need to depend on each other more. Some will see the over come and some will not. The ones that succeed, in my opinion, will be better off. Those who grow further apart, well they will be victims of there circumstance.

"Can WE All Just Get Along" Rodney King

Posted by Classylady (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 6:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

John 8:6-8 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

They tried to tempt Jesus, so is man any higher than Jesus?

If what Obam's pastor said was so offensive, how many of you, both black and white, still attend segregated churches every Sunday? We don't know what is preached from behind any pulpit, now do we? And before you start to attack, I am not advocating intergration of the churches, I personally don't want to be with anyone who doesn't want to be with me. But I do hope you get my point.

Posted by adamstanton (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 7:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What we really have here is an experiment, a country that was once completely ran by European Americans is now decided to share even to let the people from what ever nationality or financial means whom ever can produce the most votes either by amassing people from across the border or by out breeding whites over generations, to call the shots in this country. And so the experiment goes, peaceful transfer of power or the ability to command troops peaceful transfer of leadership to people that then have the ability to hire and appoint whom ever they want in position desplacing those that they want too. It is all an experiment. As white people you hear about what a racist bunch we are down south and ya wonder what more could I do and what have I done wrong. I have stood by and not gotten a job because I was white I have watched as mascots at schools got changed because of the fact that someone said it was insensitive. And then you look around and ya see things like The Legislative Black Caucus,, The Ms Black America Pageant,, Black Entertainment TV all things that if the word White was inserted there would be riots in the streets. Well it is just an experiment isn't it.

Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 7:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Still backing him after the whole world now has heard the racist rantings of his pastor/friend huh? Then what the h--- would happen if we found out Hillary went to a church where the preacher gave insults to blacks and actually "taught" this to the followers? This is on the verge of brainwhashing what his pastor did every time the doors swung open! Have any of yal youtubed his sermons?
Botton line.....this could NEVER happen the other way around!

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 7:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

We're not voting on the minister. We're voting on the man himself. Watch his speech, the whole thing, from the other day. If you still choose to hate him, well, go on then. And in twenty years, you can explain to your kids and grandkids why you thought that speech was just another political speech.

Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm NOT voting for a man that would continually go back to listen to a so called sermon like that! THAT'S the point; that Obama went year after year, Sunday after Sunday and sat and listened to this minister! And were it not for someone taping it finally we STILL wouldn't have heard about it!

Posted by Incognito (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 7:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ok, so we've moved on from Obama being Muslim, to Obama being Christian under the leadership of Pastor Wright? Since none of the individuals posting have ever attended this church, how can anyone draw a conclusion of what is taught there every Sunday?

What's the difference when congregations protest abortion clinics demeaning those individuals who take part in that practice or when pastors say that homosexuality was the cause of hurricane Katrina? There is no deliverence in condemning an individual. This is done in predominately white churches.

After Obama's speech (or State of the Union) if he does, or does not win the election, I'm fine. He addressed issues of race that have yet to be resolved in this country. Issues that have limited this country's (especially Mississippi's) potential, a potential that can still bring forth progression. The unwillingness to embrace diversity, the importance of real unification.

Posted by The_Punisher (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Are you so sure sayitoutloud? This country already had a pro klan president, and I quote:

“It is like writing history with Lightning. And my only regret is that it is all so terribly true.”
– Woodrow Wilson, after viewing the pro-KKK movie Birth of a Nation

You think that black people weren't upset about this? But we couldn't raise hell about it could we? It's already happened the other way around. And to adamstanton: The experiment of breeding out a race was already attempted by the English in Scotland and here in the U.S. and the perpertrators of course were NOT black. I don't watch BET because it's damn degrading and I can't comment on the other examples you left because I don't know too much about them.

We have seen presidents with all white administrations and jury trials with all white jurors, klan loving governors and presidents to people getting shot trying to vote. But minorities have soldiered on through all of this. You didn't get a job because of your color? Welcome to the club, you're not the first and you won't be the last.

I find Rush Limbaugh just as offensive as Obama's pastor but nobody's raising hell about that.

Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 7:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

UUUMMM.... how RECENT was that......NOT very.

nuff said

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 7:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And let's not forget the pastor James Hagee, a fairly big endorsement for McCain, who called the Catholic church "the great whore." McCain disavowed the comments but it stopped there. I actually don't believe McCain of all people has ever remotely considered the Catholic church to be anything of the sort, although I would have liked the straight talker to have given a stronger condemnation.

Still, your choice is to vote for McCain based on what he says and does, not Hagee. The choice with Obama is to vote on what he says and does, not Wright. Many of us have seen and heard the man, and believe he's ready to be president. Some have decided he's not. It's a valid discussion to have. I just wish we could stick to the important issues - and talk about them in a more thoughtful, nuanced way.

Strange to say that to someone who's chosen as her username "SAYITLOUD." Which SAYSITALL.

Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 7:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you sentas!

Posted by The_Punisher (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Don't matter how recent it was, just examples of what black people have had to deal with over the years. If the best one can do is attack a canidate through his pastors comments then go for it, since that's all you really have in the first place. How petty.

Posted by tcauthen (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There is a difference between someone endorsing, and a close personal life long friend. As you wrote punisher, in association with.

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"If the best one can do is attack a candidate through his pastor's comments, then go for it." I couldn't agree more, Punisher. Although the more I think about it, the more I think it's good to get this out of the way now. I think this is all they've got. Having Hillary's team do it is better than having the extreme right wing start cranking up their machine on this.

Posted by j_bravo (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 8:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well I have a question after reading the statement by "hitormiss". You see "hitormiss" made a comment about someone's comment being a racist remark, when in fact I see nothing racist about it. "Natchezenema" simply said that they feel there is a lack of black leadership in this country. What part of that is racist? Could someone explain this, so next time I will know. In my opinion their statement just points out that in this country when some people hear something they don't like the first thing they do is start yelling racism. There is nothing racist about saying you feel there is a lack of black leadership in this country. I personally feel right now there is a lack of good leadership in LOTS of places, does this make me a racist? If so, a racist against what, Politicians?

Sure you can sit in Church and hear your pastor talk about things and not agree and you might not even share the same beliefs of the pastor on that particular issue. Even if you don’t, you might sit there and listen to it. You should not be judged, because you sat there and listened to that sermon. To listen to someone’s opinion doesn’t mean that is your opinion or even your belief. However, if you sit there and listen to this same type of talk for TWENTY YEARS? Then yes, one could make a pretty good argument that you must share the same belief as the pastor, if not, why would you sit there and listen to someone that you didn't agree with for TWENTY YEARS? Once, twice and dozen times, maybe, but TWENTY YEARS? I can’t believe that a man who is as educated and everything as Obama, would sit there and listen to the things that Rev Wright preached, allow him to officiate his wedding, baptize his children and be such a large part of his life, if he didn’t agree with what the man said and believed.

So to me that is the problem, not what his pastor said, but what I now believe his beliefs are. Well that and the fact that he has stated clearly that he wants to raise my taxes.

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay, here's the question. Has Obama said anything racist? And has he done anything racist?

If no,* then let's move on to talk about the economy, Iraq, health care, and the other pressing issues of the day. This is just an endless loop of race chatter, which isn't getting us anywhere.

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

* in fact, I think you'll find (as most have) that Obama has gone out of his way to get beyond the race issue. Some have called it "postracial politics."

I guess there will always be those conspiracy theorists who think he's a Black Panther in disguise who will unveil himself just after swearing on the Koran.

Posted by Incognito (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Remember, Obama credits Pastor Wright for introducing him to Christianity. Now, just because one professes to be a Christain, doesn't mean that individual is perfect. We all have imperfections. Also, as Obama said in his speech, Wright lived during that time when racial inequality was the norm, and who's to say that a police dog didn't attack Wright. I'm not in support of some of the things that have been said by Wright, but as Christians, we must come to the realization that just because someone has sinned or is flawed, that person should not to be discarded.

Now, I've been told that individuals (members)at certain predominately white churches, in Natchez, are members (some life time) of the KKK, a group known to represent hate. So should the pastor(s) not have an association with these people?

Posted by Hardcorps (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Obama is the antichrist. McCain is the devil. Hillary is just a sweet wittle sugar booger. Hardcorps chuckles and pokes himself in the eye for saying these things.

sanders is going to vote for whomever his wife tells him to and since she is who she is, he will vote for obama.

Posted by tcauthen (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sentas, i'd love to talk about the other issues. All I hear from barrack is change. Not how to change just change.
He is quoted as saying " we live in the greatest nation on earth, join me to help change that".

I still think we have noone to choose from this year.

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Then you must be listening to what Hillary's saying, or not following Obama at all. Because that's a bum rap. He's as clear as anyone in the field about where he stands on the issues.

Posted by tcauthen (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Give me the link that states how he is gonna "fix " the country.

Posted by youneverknow (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Obama took his children to a church that preaches hate.
What can they think of white people, we are not produced
from a factory. We are not all the same--just as they are not all the same. Obama had some anger towards his white grandmother he needs to work through. You can hear it in his voice. 20 years is a long time.

Posted by frogprincenessntz (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

To all the comments above: If you are in a church, white or black, where your pastor teaches and spouts hatred and unforgiveness for anyone, you follow him at your peril. I firmly believe God is in control of who eventually leads this country, just as He was in control when each of the others went in. Many caused us to be blessed. Many caused us grief. God gave us ample opportunity to turn back to Him and His teachings. We, an a nation, are pushing His teachings to the side. He has warned us what will happen then. We have ample history to explore on that subject. I personally believe Christ is coming back soon and we will no longer have to live like this. BUT before He returns, many will live their last day on earth. If you have not become a Christian, a true follower of Christ and His teaching, it will be too late. He taught forgiveness, love, and turning away from sin. Our society will try to tell you that love and hate are just two sides of the same coin. That is a lie. When you become a Christian (follower of Christ and His teachings), hate has to leave and love of your fellow man has to take its place. If it does not, look over your shoulder. You decided not to follow Christ. BOTTOM LINE: YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN.

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Although I don't agree with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, there may be some truth to the Polio vaccination conspiracy theory concerning the beginning of the AIDS epidemic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPV_AIDS_hy...

I am on my best behavior today in hopes of not getting any of my comments removed.

Posted by adamstanton (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

well Punisher obviously you don't read very well or maybe I don't write well but somewhere there is a diconnect because I never said to breed out a race of people. What I was pointing to is for one race to out populate another either through immigration or population by birth. If you are going to address what I said please read it and answer in its context.

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlue...

I'm not asking you to agree with every point in there, or any point for that matter. I just want you to concede the point that he has outlined how he would back up his agenda to change things.

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Of course, who goes to church to hear about Conspiracy Theories? I thought church was about worshipping the Lord, not condoning this country or mankind? I thought the church says we are all made in the eyes or God and we are all equal.

Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hit or miss has a guilty concience. The first thing people do now days when you say something that is right they want to attack you or slur you. This goes back to the whole Obama thing. He is the one who says we all need to be above the fray of racism, and behold! He is sitting in a church with a TRUE Racist. People and news media have danced around and called this preacher everything but the truth. The democrats have not even touched the subject hardly because they are scared, all they have said is move on. In other words, Hey you got me, I can't say anything about it. If Matin Luther was alive today I highly doubt he would have anything to do with this man. This preacher is not a man of God.What did M.L.K. say? Judge not by the color but by the content of character. Tell me of a time when M.L.K. ever called a white person "whitie". M.L.K.'s supporters had dogs and water hoses on them and NEVER used this kind of hate filled talk. I am white and my father taught me to never treat a black person bad or use hate talk,or slurs against them. This is a problem in this country, if you are black you can talk about the whites, and if you are white and say a comment like in my earlier post, you are called a racist. I would never, NEVER, EVER sit in a church one Sunday and listen to this hate filled crap if it came from a white preacher about black folks! I want to know what Obama would do when this racist animal started spewing this hate. He could have just got up and left or condemed it. He didn't do that because he wanted to play both sides of the fence. When it come to racism, you can't do that. Call an ace an ace and a spade a spade.What are Obama's biggest words? 'Change" and "words mean everything" I think it would have been a lot easier if Obama could have said in his speach 2 days ago on the subject. "Yes my fellow Americans this hate did come from pastor at my church". "and I would like everybody to know I have not been to this church since and will never go back". Remember people, birds of a feather flock togeather, and Obama was in that flock! It Says a lot about the content of his character! Maybe Obama's chickens are comming home to roost!

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I understand why so many blacks are over zealous in wanting a black as president . They have come a long way since the civil rights movement . But if they don't watch out ,the silver tongue devil will take their two steps forward and go back to more hatred than ever before . One is judged by the company he keeps . Remember he didn't get this far without a lot of debts to pay . I'm afraid there will always be racial issues in our country until we have made so many babies of mixed color that there is only one race . I wonder what we'll fuss about then . In the meantime , lets try to use this forum in a constructive way and agree to disagree without getting personnal . My opinion , for what its worth, is this . We shouldn't vote for somebody because of color or gender . We should try to make an educated decision based on what we can find out about the politian at hand . We need to pay attention to any red flags that go up and that might take the United out of our States . We are a country of many races and we ,believe it or nor, have bigger issues to be concerned about than race . This is not what the great leaders of our country wanted for us . We are being blindsided by people that want this to be "all about me". Our problems are about health care, education, foreign affairs and of course immigration . We don't need more . Obama 's campaign has already caused too much hatred. Don't show your ignorance by not being aware of that . Think of what this would bring to the White House . It would mean even more division ,expences, and focus away from the problems that need so much to be resolved today . This is not a popularity contest . At this time I lean toward McCain .

Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

AMEN NATCHEZENEMA!
And don't forget he was talking horrible about our entire country!

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Has Obama said anything racist? Has he done anything racist?

My grandpa is racist. I go to his house all the time, and I've yet to stand up and walk out the door when he says some crazy stuff. But don't call me a racist because I don't disavow him.

This is more complex than we would like it to be.

Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

obamayamama is minding their P's and Q's...now that's a first. :)

Maybe the world is coming to an end like FROG said.

LOL.

Posted by The_Punisher (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

adamstanton: I read well, I understand your point, I stand corrected.

Posted by kpage (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yeah, Obama is like MLK....NOT!!!! MLK preached equality. Obama is saying "I have a dream that all the world's countries stand hand in hand, united under one god...Allah". Nothing is going to make me believe otherwise. It sure has nothing to do with the color of his skin...it's his hidden agenda. And that my friends, is the bottom line.

Posted by Perro (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Being American means that we are all entitled to our own thoughts and views. Some people's opinions, views, and situations, will lead them to support Obama, while some will lean more toward Hillary, and yet others will still lean more towards Mcain.

However, for those of you who originally supported Obama, please don't discredit him over the ignorance of his minister. From a personal standpoint, I feel that Obama is an exceptional presidential hopeful. However, as an African-American I can say that we as a people have sat by far too long and allowed ignorant hatred-filled adultrous pastors lead us to hell and back. God is not a white or black God. The Holy Bible preaches a message of love. Pastor Wright has the right to endorse and disagree publically with whatever canidate he chooses. However his remarks where spewed with racism and hate for the country which he lives in. This is not a white or a black country but and everybody country. If there is something you don't like about this country get off your hind and work to make it better. And to my fellow African-Americans if you know your religious leader is not fit to lead cows across the street its time that we stand up and call their hand. It may even be time for their resignation.

Posted by Imthe1 (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

frogprincenessntz, youneverknow, sayitloud Hatred of Black Americans has been taught in the homes and churches of some White Americans for years. It has been instilled in their children, in their children’s children and so on. Racism exists today only because it rides on the heels of those who wish to tolerate and perpetuate it.

Posted by Imthe1 (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Whatever the now retired Pastor Wright has said or preaches about has absolutely nothing to do with Senator Obama's views. Just has Bill’s actions of committing several infidelities and having O/S performed on him in the Oval Office by an intern has nothing to do with Hillary's views.

Posted by kpage (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks for that, Perro. I wish more people thought like you. I choose not to support Obama, but it doesn't change the fact that we are united TOGETHER in our wonderful America. In fact, I've mentioned before, when I was a kid, Schoolhouse Rock came on Saturday mornings. There was this one that talked about the birth and growth of America. It was called "The Great American Melting Pot"...to me that means people of all nationalities come TOGETHER to form a free country. Each one of us has our contributions and I wish everyone would see that.

Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sentas, it's different when you are born in a racist family. But to CHOOSE a racist family, now that seems relevant.

Remember, P's and Q's...

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You are so wrong, lmthe1 . I have lots of relatives and close friends in this area and I was brought up in the 50's and 60's and we were never taught to hate anybody . We sang the song in sunday school that had the verse "red or yellow ,black or white they aren't different in his sight" and we believed it . We knew there were problems and we know there are still problems but the problems are on all sides of races . Move on

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Southernbelle, that's real easy to say when you didn't see your uncle getting blown to the ground by a firehose. For instance.

Posted by Perro (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Remember two wrongs don't make a right! Hatred and racism or wrong no matter what side of the fence they are taught on. However Imthe1 I fully support your claim that the ramping and ravings of an ignorant pastor have nothing to do with presidential hopeful Obama. Obama acknowledged the good his minister did and denounced the ill-thoughtful remarks, which were the appropriate thing to do. I have faithfully sat in many churches and disagreed with numerous pastors for their ignorant sayings and transgressions. I almost feel ministers need to read the bible and leave their ignorant thoughts out. Once again my fellow African-Americans don't just follow someone because they are black. Follow them because they are going to do the right thing. And once again I say if your religious leader is adultrous, hatred -filled, and no good stand up and call his hand!You have a bible read it! you don't have to let no man lead you to hell!!!

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sentas, I can beat that . I had a brother that was brutally murdered. He was beaten three separate times in one evening,shot and thrown off a bridge . Two of the black men that murdered him were given manslaughter and the other two were given probation . That took place in Wilkinson county in 1997. Does that make you happy ?

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And you are right perro ,two wrongs don't make a right . It took me a long and prayer full time to not look at all blacks as the killers of my brother . I believe I can see a lot of things more clearly now .

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 10:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think this is a weird game to play. And I'm sorry to hear about your loss again. I remember reading that somewhere else on here, and I'm sure it's quite painful for you.

My point is that living in Mississippi, you have to acknowledge that maybe not all the white people were singing "red yellow black or white, they aren't different in his sight." That's all. People can play tit-for-tat on personal experiences all day long.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And my point is there isn't much you or your family has experienced in the last 50 yrs or so that other people haven't . I am not playing a game with you . It makes me fill good to have a black person be nice and courteous to me . More black women than men do . As a whole,black men are very disrespectful to white women . But there again this issue is not about us. Lets get back on track,okay. Truce?

Posted by Perro (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Southernbelle don't feel bad black men are equally disrespectful to black women. That is of course not to say that the majority are because I feel that is a stereotype but there are quiet a few of disrepectful black men. It comes from the glamorization of the rap and hip hop culture, poverty, single parent homes, break down of Christian and morale values. However, be cautious because I see quiet a few young caucasian men glamorizing the rap and hip hop culture as a new fad as well.

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 11:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I could go on, but I hope people understand where I am coming from. I know black people feel like they needed to do these things coming out of the Civil Rights Era to establish a proud identity that had been quashed by a lot of whites for a couple of centuries. But it should have been a transitional thing that should now be phased out. I believe that some whites are becoming saddened by this. We want to unite but a lot of blacks don't trust us to unite. I know I speak for many white acquaintances of mine when I say that I'm sorry that slavery took place, I'm sorry that Selma took place, I'm sorry that Little Rock High and Ole Miss students were treated the way they were. But I can't help that. I feel like I have to atone for something I'm not guilty of and I just can't do it. I can't help what my particular family did the last five generations did. I'm almost positive they were too poor to own slaves but I'm pretty sure I had racist people in my family. But I can't help that. I don't want that held against me. People are going to have to bury the past in order to focus on the future: both whites and blacks. I know I'm probably wasting my breath, but to see the hatred in these posts from both whites and blacks breaks my heart. My Lord Jesus teaches me to love all, even my enemies. If we profess to be Christians (by definition a follower of Jesus and His teachings), then why can't we follow this one simple axiom of His? Bury the hatchet! Love your brother and sister! Our country is at stake!

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Fortunately, I was raised by a mother and father who were raised by parents to not think like many white people in Wilkinson County, and my parents passed that on to me. We had a black lady who helped my mom keep house and take care of all of us. I still go visit her because she is like a grandma to me, and I love her to death. I say this to let everyone know that I don't harbor any racial feelings so my following comments are objective.

There is a huge racial divide in the country. It has narrowed considerably in the past half a century, but it is still a great chasm we must span. There is racism on both sides of the color line. Yes, there are many blacks who are denied opportunities because of their color and we should take every pain possible to correct those injustices. I must also say that when Rev. Wright makes comments like that it hurts me because I know I am not like that and yet I am put in general statements that he makes about white people. There is a double standard in this country. A black comedian can impersonate a white person with a nerdy voice, but if a white comedian, impersonated the way a black person talked then it would be deemed racist. If there was a channel called WET instead of BET it would be deemed racist. If there was a magazine entitled "Ivory" instead of "Ebony" then it would be deemed racist. If there was a White Caucus of America instead of a Black Caucus of America it would be deemed racist. I could go on, but I hope people understand where I am coming from.... (please see next post, I had to break it into to two separate post because of length)

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

THOSE LAST TWO POSTS ARE OUT OF ORDER. PLEASE READ THE 11:23 FIRST THEN THE 11:22 AM POST SECOND. SORRY FOR BEING SO CONFUSING

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 11:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

i AM REPOSTING BECAUSE OF THE CONFUSION OF BEING OUT OF ORDER

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Fortunately, I was raised by a mother and father who were raised by parents to not think like many white people in Wilkinson County, and my parents passed that on to me. We had a black lady who helped my mom keep house and take care of all of us. I still go visit her because she is like a grandma to me, and I love her to death. I say this to let everyone know that I don't harbor any racial feelings so my following comments are objective.

There is a huge racial divide in the country. It has narrowed considerably in the past half a century, but it is still a great chasm we must span. There is racism on both sides of the color line. Yes, there are many blacks who are denied opportunities because of their color and we should take every pain possible to correct those injustices. I must also say that when Rev. Wright makes comments like that it hurts me because I know I am not like that and yet I am put in general statements that he makes about white people. There is a double standard in this country. A black comedian can impersonate a white person with a nerdy voice, but if a white comedian, impersonated the way a black person talked then it would be deemed racist. If there was a channel called WET instead of BET it would be deemed racist. If there was a magazine entitled "Ivory" instead of "Ebony" then it would be deemed racist. If there was a White Caucus of America instead of a Black Caucus of America it would be deemed racist. I could go on, but I hope people understand where I am coming from.

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

(CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST) I know black people feel like they needed to do these things coming out of the Civil Rights Era to establish a proud identity that had been quashed by a lot of whites for a couple of centuries. But it should have been a transitional thing that should now be phased out. I believe that some whites are becoming saddened by this. We want to unite but a lot of blacks don't trust us to unite. I know I speak for many white acquaintances of mine when I say that I'm sorry that slavery took place, I'm sorry that Selma took place, I'm sorry that Little Rock High and Ole Miss students were treated the way they were. But I can't help that. I feel like I have to atone for something I'm not guilty of and I just can't do it. I can't help what my particular family did the last five generations did. I'm almost positive they were too poor to own slaves but I'm pretty sure I had racist people in my family. But I can't help that. I don't want that held against me. People are going to have to bury the past in order to focus on the future: both whites and blacks. I know I'm probably wasting my breath, but to see the hatred in these posts from both whites and blacks breaks my heart. My Lord Jesus teaches me to love all, even my enemies. If we profess to be Christians (by definition a follower of Jesus and His teachings), then why can't we follow this one simple axiom of His? Bury the hatchet! Love your brother and sister! Our country is at stake!

Posted by Fairytale (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 11:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My 2cents:
This board is a pretty good representation of the differing views all across our country. There really is "nothing new" under the sun is there?

Many observations and views are exactly correct, and many others are plain stupid. Most people who make the stupid observations, and conclusions will in most cases never realize thier mistake. That's human imperfection, and the world we live in.

In my opinion, the issue facing Mr. Obama is this.

It's the votes of the people who weren't totally committed to him that he stands to lose. That's "the" issue surrounding his relationship with Mr. Wright.

Forget Hillary, and how that all works out for just a minute. Those uncommitted people could easily vote for McCain in the fall, and he knows it.

For many like me, it's just something to observe. I have a clear concience about how I treat other folks of whatever race. So I couldn't care less about Mr. Obama's or anyone elses views on that issue. He (Mr. Obama), is no more "perfect" than I am. Some of our views are right, and others are wrong.

He could never lose my vote, as he never had it to begin with. Quite simply because I don't think he's the best person to be our president. For me it's as simple as that.

The votes of people like me are of no concern to Mr. Obama. It's the people who depend on the guidence of the evening news for their decisions that he's worried about.

Their numbers are many, and that's why Mr. Wrights sermons are important, and why they will continue to get attention.

Like it or not, rightly or wrongly, Mr. Obama will have this to deal with for the rest of his political life. It will be relevent in every political race he ever runs from here on. Though he'll likely win many, possibly even this one, he'll carry this baggage from now on.

He can thank both Mr. Wright, and his own incorrect conclusions of other people's reactions for that.

Posted by wisdomseeker (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

After reading some of the comments on here, I began to seriously think about the state of America. There are so many sides to the race story. The fact is, is racism does exist. It exists in so many forms. It can be the color of someone's hair, their dialect, their body form, their color, etc.. It will always exist as long as it is ignored. I read one person's comment that they are passed up on jobs because of blacks. That comment shows animosity. Well, take that animosity and multiply it times 300 + years of bondage and another 50 + years of segregation. I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist on both sides, but realize that the institution of slavery was very real and heinous. I know you are saying....get over it. Well, I'll say that right back at you...not so easy is it? I'm researching my family history and have been doing so for 10 years. Anything before 1870, and it's lost! Have any whites on here ever admitted that slavery existed and they are sorry that it happened?

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes wisdom seeker. See my two posts from 11:27 and 11:28 a.m. I do make a comment on slavery, but I also make a plea to everyone. I'm not going to go into it again, but please read my comments if you want to know more. Thanks.

Posted by tcauthen (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)

sentas i get sent to a file i can't download. Please check it again.

Posted by adamstanton (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 12:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank You

Posted by tcauthen (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 12:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

wisdom, everyone knows that slavery existed. Sorry for what? I don't think there is a person alive today that had anything to do with it.
But if that is what makes you feel better I'm sorry. While I'm at it I think I will apologize to the native americans, the iraqi's, the veitnemese, the germans the japs the english the cubans the russians and anybody else we have downtrodded.
But you have to admit, (with the exception of the native americans) everyone of them are better today because of our help. They recieve our help in numerous ways. Think they will return the favor?

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.plnewsforum.com/index.php?/fo...

This is the type of hatred I'm talking about. Here is a black slamming Obama saying he was trash when he was born because he was to a white woman. No one, even Obama is immune from the racism from whites and blacks. If this link doesn't work, google "Rev. James David Manning"

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What's funny is that the point of Obama's speech the other day was to get us all to move on to a new place in discussions on race - one that many of you want to reach as well. I think the following passage -FROM THAT SPEECH- fairly accurately depicts what many of you have said here.

"In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren't always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation."

Yes, he's talking about race. BUT HE'S TALKING ABOUT NOT DWELLING ON IT. What more can you ask for here? What can a black leader say about race that would make you more happy?

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 12:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I knew sentas would blindly follow Obama

Anybody that was a member of that loon's church for 10 years KNEW he was a black liberation fanatic. This is a blight on Obama that will not go away. Any self-respecting superdelegate would vote Hillary, for the very fact that Hillary doesn't have this racial baggage.

But even more important are the lies Obama spews forth, just to placate the masses. He says he will immediately withdraw troops from Iraq, when he knows darn well he will not and cannot. His military advisors will not allow such foolishness.

And just consider the nature of ALL these posts- Obama is not a unifier, he is divisive, or shall I say his followers are at least.

Here we are all foaming at the mouth over racial issues
Obama is worried about cleaning up this mess caused by his racially oriented preacher spewing forth hatred of whites and the USA.

McCain has risen above this nonsense and is overseas touring and familiarizing himself with REAL ISSUES.

A real PRESIDENTIAL candidate will not have racial baggage.
It is so BELOW a Presidential candidate to be mired down in such a stupid issue. Most intelligent people are not caught up in racial issues. McCain doesn't have this problem. He's tending to business. Obama is housecleaning. Who is the REAL Presidential candidate. McCain has 10 times the experience and an unblemished record. He's had a few bumps in the road, but what long term politician doesn't have detractors and enemies? McCain is capable, tried and I believe as honest as there is.

Put the racial nonsense behind you, let it go. I know I need to work on that too, but I'm come to that crossing for myself and will not allow racists from either side influence me anymore. Get past it and quit using that as an excuse to slander others. The fact is this is a free country and people will always choose who they like and who they dislike. You cannot make people do anything they don't want to do. But you can rise above it for yourself.

Posted by tcauthen (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

didn't hear the speech sentas. Your right he makes a good point. Where can i find the whole speech?

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashos.htm

The full transcript.

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 1:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow. So many of us were waiting for Krogers to weigh in on this. Now I'm sure the whole conversation, which was getting pretty good, will be hijacked.

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sayitloud - say it even louder,

NatchezEnema- don't forget-- if you use the word black in here, and you're not black, you're a racist!!

the blacks in here are always hollering racist. Pure stupidity in my opinion. Then again liberals are notorious for wanting our rights taken away. Censurship is their greatest weapon.

You're not a racist for telling the truth, or having an opinion that disagrees with Black Liberationist Fanatics!

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 1:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Just in case you missed it: even Obama is not immune from racism. I know he's been subjected to white racism, but black racism?.....it's crazy. All this has to stop at some point...from both sides. http://www.plnewsforum.com/index.php?/fo...

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 1:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Slavery is wrong no matter when or where it takes place . I think everone will agree that blacks were still fighting for there freedom 100 yrs after the civil war . Obviously some still feel the need to fight . So why does this presidental canidate feel we need to cut and run from our responsibilities in Iraq. When we chose to help our fellow man 5 yrs. ago , we knew it wouldn't be a short battle . Democrats and Repubicans knew this . As with all wars ,its not just about right or wrong . It's also about power and greed . I don't believe the killing will ever completely stop over there . It hardly ever does after a war . But life as they know it can be better . That takes fighting for it . We have to stay until it's finished whether we like it or not . We have to have a leader that recognizes this and doesn't try to pull the wool over Americans eyes to get their votes . I want somebody in office that puts its people first . Maybe I'm naive but I believe McCain is the man . Would you have wanted MLK to have been a quitter ? I think not .

Posted by Perro (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 1:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What in tarnations are all of you talking about!!?? You know I am black and proud of it! But I'm not following anyone because of race or color but one who I feel that is qualified to do the job. And to you, you know as well as I, if the only negative thing a political mud-slinging match can use to sling mud is the ramping and raving from an old ignorant preacher, and the posibillity of Barracka being somehow Islamic I think that says a lot for Obama. If you don't want to support Obama or discredit him discredit him on sound specifics involving him not the slanderings of this Rev. Wright. Even your Beloved Mcain stated in his interview that people don't necessary agree with every word one of their supporters breath. (This was stated when asked about his opinions about this foolishness) I have a living moma that I don't agree with every word she says just as you have someone in your family that you love and dont agree with every word they say. People must be accountable for their own actions and words. I think to even consider using such foolishness to discredit Obama is no more than a low blow by the media. If you want to discredit him discuss his shortcomings not some ignorant old preacher!

Posted by tcauthen (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sentas, he is a good speaker. Probably why he was a good lawyer.

Posted by dottie (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 1:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Pastor Wright, in my opinion, is another Rush Limbaugh. Anti-American.

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Perro- what bothers everyone is the fact that Obama was a member of this church for over 10 years. This preacher baptized his kids, he was married by this preacher. It's obvious that this fanatic preacher attracted Obama by his lunacy!! Doesn't that give you pause as to Obama's philosophies?? It is not foolish to consider that Obama shares the opinions of this Black Liberation Fanatic!! This man has preached hatred for the USA for 10 years, he has preached racism for 10 years, Obama has participated in this, yet you would believe he is the New MLK? Does that qualify him for President? I think NOT!! Will you please quit believing his empty promises and LIES. He cannot back up his promises with action. To say he will immediately withdraw troops and his other promises of generosity are just to pleas to buy your vote. He cannot withdraw the troops. He cannot give you healthcare. He will listen to the SAME MILITARY ADVISORS that Bush has. Doctors want to be paid. Look at our own hospital here, it's in debt due to failed gov't programs. Private industry and commerce are the only hopes we have and that is the basis of our country. Change that and we will collapse.

But all these comments back up my thinking- Obama is now doomed as the conversation is RACISM, not relevant national issues. There are so many more important issues. The Democrats are polarized over his preacher. So UNpresidential!!! Our local superdelegate should vote Hillary!!

Let me ask you this- Who benefits from racism these days? Who continues to beat the racism drum?
Whites certainly do not benefit from the racism business. Does that give anyone a clue as to the ongoing racism business. And let me tell you, you know it's true, racism is BIG BUSINESS!

But speaking of Obama's shortcomings- He has missed 40% of his votes while serving as US Senator for Illinois. Most of his votes have been declared as merely Present, not taking a stand either yea or nay. That is NOT leadership. I know many people from Illinois, and they are not pleased with his service.

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 1:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Atta girl Southernbelle!!

Finish the Mission!! I believe we must honor our soldiers that have sacrificed and NOT GIVE IN to the ignorant masses who do not see into the future that freedom in the heart of the Middle East is the best weapon we have for world peace.

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Superdelegates-- that is a dumb thing to have

The Democrats should be ashamed of themselves

First denying the Democrats of Michigan and Florida their primary vote, now fighting over how to decide who should get their delegates votes, and how to include them in the Democratic Convention- what a mess!!!

And the scandals of high ranking Democrats currently- Senator Jefferson indicted for bribe taking and giving, Governor whathisname of New York soliciting prostitutes and whatever else then can hang on him. The lies Senator Pelosi continues to utter and the mess she has in the US Senate. Racism and US hatred by Obama (by association with his preacher I grant that, but that is human nature to convict by association)

What a mess the Democrats have on their hands

I don't think I want a US Congress and the US White House dominated by such a pack of scoundrels!!!

I'm voting Republican!!!

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I hope you're proud sentas!!!

voting for a pack of loosers!!

Socialists and scoundrels the whole lot!!

Hillary wouldn't even divorce her cheating husband, that's sad!

Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I hope and wish that nothing is concluded between the voters of Florida and Michigan with the DNC and the "situation" goes to the floor of the DemocRATic Convention! Then the world will be able to see the Circus free of charge!

Posted by wisdomseeker (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I do agree that it is time for healing. The aftermath of slavery has been great. It has torn a country apart. Each side can argue their point, and each side probably has great points to argue. We can spend the rest of our lives arguing, or we can spend the rest of our lives forgiving. It is completely up to each individual. I love all people as people and expect nothing more than their human souls can offer. Be Blessed, and I wish peace and joy to each of you.

Signing off.

Posted by wisdomseeker (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Krogers, you are very judgemental. Until you have walked a mile in another's shoes, you should not be so quick to judge...lest you are ready to be judged and can come out perfect.

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Aww, hey, I know Republicans got their skeletons too, Republicans have their issues as well

Just having fun rubbing it in while I can

However things turn out, we're all Americans together and we'll do the best we can.

I just hope we can get some action on illegal immigrants, seal up the borders, kill the terrorists before they kill us, increase the value of the dollar, build and maintain our infrastructure and keep the homeland safe.

Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Amend Krogers!

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You know ya'll if we pay attention and not get too ugly with each other ,this may end up being one of the best articles we have ever commented on . I think we have gotten somewhere today . Even if we are a very hard headed group of southerners .

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Among his many pearls of wisdom, Krogers had this important note:

"But speaking of Obama's shortcomings- He has missed 40% of his votes while serving as US Senator for Illinois. Most of his votes have been declared as merely Present, not taking a stand either yea or nay. That is NOT leadership."

In 2007, McCain missed 56% of the votes, second only to Tim Johnson, the SD Democrat who hasn't returned to the Senate after suffering a brain hemorrhage in '06. Obama was a distant third on the list, missing 37.4%.

These are facts. Here is the source: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congr...

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You always have to amend Krogers if you want to deal in real facts.

Posted by Perro (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kroger I don't think that Obama can withdrew troops as soon as he enters the White House. However, I do think he has plans to gradually and definately bring to an end a war that is costing America billions of dollars and going nowhere. The very start of this war was based on a set of lies.(Remember weapons of mass destruction!) And think beyond the propaganda don't we have weapons of mass destruction. You mean I can own a gun in my house and I can tell you you can't! Hussein's whole family has been slaughtered up and the war yet trickles on with what I would assume the promise of stealing oil. The same falls true about healthcare. I don't think he will step in office and blink his eyes like I dream of Jenie and presto free healthcare. But I do feel that over time he will improve the state of healthcare and offer assistance to those who are not afford healthcare. The atrocity that this country has been put in over years of propagana from wealthy republicans will take quiet a long time to work out. Obama has openly reached out to both races. I suppose that you are in your own wealthy little class, but for those of us who don't fall in this cubicle the economy is in threads. We are most surely creeping toward a recession and you think it is ludicrous to look toward a glimmer of hope or change.

The only legitimate claim I almost have some qualms about is the religious leadership. I know that you being a non-minority probally can't relate to our church culture. However, many times we sit obediantly listening to our preacher and silently grumbling to ourself because we cherish our preachers and look toward them with unconditional love when even then we must say enough is enough. You are wrong even though I love you in a very Christian way.

Posted by Classylady (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I ask the question again, if Obama's pastor's remarks were so offensive, how many of US CHRISTIANS, both black and white, attend segregated churches every Sunday? Isn't that teaching our children that we are so divided that we can't even worship together?

It also reminds me of something I encountered this past Christmas while shopping in Jackson-- a "black" man was playing santa claus at the store I was in and a little white girl asked her grandmother if she had seen santa. The grandmother immediately responded that she had. Then the little girl innocently asked her grandmother, and I quote "but granny isn't santa white?" The grandmother handled it well by responding that santa can be any color.

I am in no way defending what Pastor Wright said, but this does prove that we are all sending the wrong messages to our children and grandchildren as long as we, as adults, are divided. I agree that we are judged by our associations, and we are all guilty of that-- whether in church, at work, the mall, wherever. My point is, whether it is being verbalized from the pulpit or not, we are all sending the same message of prejudice.

Posted by Perro (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Also, as far as a reference to our local hospital the main reason it is in the shape is is because we have so many people who are so financialy deprived and without insurance payments of bills can not be made. i know this because I know numerous people Receivable solutions have been after. ( A collection agency) I went to the emergancy room for a situation with my ulcers and was left with a 749 dollar bill. My insurance paid 469 dollars but i still was left with quiet a chunck to pay for my salary. This was nothing major like surgery. I can just imagine what its like with someone who has no health insurance.

Posted by wisdomseeker (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You are right, Krogers. But even more important, we are all humans together. The bible teaches us to love one another despite our shortcomings. This is a great dialogue, and I think once all is said and done, it will help to mend.

Posted by Incognito (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For those who say the democrats should be ashamed.

In recent weeks, conservative talk radio stars Rush Limbaugh and Laura Ingraham have urged loyal listeners to vote for the much-despised Clinton in open Democratic primaries so as to prevent Obama from sealing the nomination, and there are some indications that their calls have already been heeded in states like Texas and Mississippi.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If people go to church for the right reasons it doesn't matter if its a black or white church . Forcing this issue will not settle anything . Give it time . As far as Obamas speech goes , I knew before he opened his mouth the speech would be accepted the same way a cheated on wife would accept her husbands defense line of "Who are you going to believe ? Me or your lying eyes ." People tend to believe whatever they want .

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have to say that it's a great dialogue until someone begins, in Kroger's own words, "just having fun rubbing it in while I can." That's not a dialogue at all, that's just funning around at someone else's expense. There are plenty of places online where that's fine, but I wish the Democrat site weren't one of them. Here, it's an unfortunate bookend to what was otherwise an interesting conversation.

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I must say that Rush's call to vote for Hillary didn't work to well in Texas. Last I heard, Obama received more Republican votes than Hillary did. That was during returns so it might have changed since returns were finalized. I don't think it had any impact. It doesn't matter anyway. Mississippi and Texas are "red" states.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't think Rush carries a lot of weight in Mississippi .

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Perro, there is a great fallacy to your last comment

No one has been deprived of finances

While some may not have money, they have not been deprived, quite the contrary, they have been GIVEN money

You are an intelligent woman, and a working lady, you should realize the difference between being deprived and choosing to stand in line and beg.

Oh, Perro- don't you consider that bill as being fair? I think that charge was reasonable.

Also, in case you missed President Bush's speech yesterday, since you probably don't listen to him to know the truth I'll tell you, he is beginning to withdraw troops from Iraq NOW, because we are WINNING and insurgency is WAY DOWN. Iraq is putting more troops 100,000 so far this year into action and things as a whole are really getting lots better. So that ought to take the wind right out of your sail on that. No one wants war, anywhere. But the responsible among us realize the threat - as has been said before- All EVIL needs to win, is for good men to do nothing!!

sentas- you don't own this site, why don't you understand that you have a choice, you can vote Republican and do the country some GOOD!! You don't have to believe all those Democratic lies. Also The Washington Post is a way left publication, known for it's liberal bias.

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Watch out - here comes Freddy Krogers, just slashing at everyone.

The Washington Post link was simply to a list of senators and how many votes they missed. There was no commentary or editorial. They were simply facts that are part of the public record. McCain missed more far more votes in 2007 than Obama, the most in the Senate. That ain't liberal bias. That's facts.

Posted by wisdomseeker (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Southernbelle, I don't think you can compare Obama's speech to a cheated-on wifes ordeals....apples and oranges. Obama didn't cheat on anyone. He simply went to church. I've heard many people say things that I don't agree with, but it's their opinion. I'm not going to disown them for having an opinion. I'm too open-minded for that...

Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ya know I just can't feel good about thinking that Obama didn't witness or know anything about the Reverends rants...I mean as I said earlier this Rev also bad mouthed this country and then I remember how Obama won't place his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is being played. Kinda makes ya wonder don't it?

Posted by wisdomseeker (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why is it so much about Republican and Democrat? There are good Repubs and good Dems...bad repubs and bad dems....Don't characterize someone as bad because they are a Dem and Good because they are a Repub.. People are people, and to be honest, a person can attest to believing in one thing and DO another thing....it's what's in your heart that counts, not what color you wear.

Posted by wisdomseeker (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sayitloud, have you personally witnessed Obama not placing his hand over his heart? Are there many many other people who do the same? You know, maybe I should question you because of what someone said in your presence because you didn't disown them....
Frankly, the only person you can control is you. Many pastors have said things that were not appealing.....they are human. Maybe the road this pastor walked has not been an appealing road. I say it time and time again people....don't judge unless you have walked that mile.

Peace.

Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

YES I HAVE!
so get off your high horse on that one!

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You are right wisdomseeker

That is why McCain is not saying anything at all; or Hillary for that matter. McCain knows that between Florida and MIchigan along with superdelegates, the DNC in Denver this summer is possibly going to be one big riotous implosion.

Also, McCain did have bad judgment by doing what he did all those years ago. He must be commended on being a POW though. They tried to release him right after they caught him because his dad was an admiral or some other high rank in military. He refused for two reasons: 1. He said he had to be released according to our country's military procedures and it wasn't his place in line. 2. He knew that if he was released, the North Vietmanese would use it as propaganda in the streets of Washington D.C. and San Francisco. He said that was the only way the North Vietmanese could challenge America and win the war since they couldn't win it militarily. His decision of integrity cost him five years in a POW camp where he spent a couple of those in isolation and was tortured and beaten. His son is in the war in Iraq right now but he won't talk about it because he said other families who have lost soldiers deserve more attention than he does because they payed the ultimate sacrifice. Sounds like he has some sense of integrity.

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

wisdom seeker, I was saying this last post in reference to your comment to southern belle about 5-10 posts ago.

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

SAYITLOUD will definitely respond to say that she's seen the whole pledge snub thing. Don't worry, I've gotten into this one before.

There is ample video evidence of Obama leading the pledge, hand over heart. End of story.

Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Damn straight I have and MAYBE if you watched alittle news you'd already know about it too.

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sentas,

I was wondering about that because I heard there was evidence that he turned his back on the flag during the pledge. Just wondering. There are so many things being said especially about his being muslim. That shows you how misinformed everyone is. He professes Christianity everyone. I guess the whole pledge issue goes bad with what Michelle Obama said about being proud of her country for the first time. Taken out of context? Probably. But it doesn't look good. Saying that, I won't be voting for Obama, but that is because of issues not all this other stuff. Me and him are totally opposite on just about every issue. I am independent though. Republicans waste just as much money through earmarks as the Democrats do.

Posted by Incognito (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Krogers

The insititution of slavery was a multi-millon/billon dollar industry back in the 1800's. That's a lot of money now!!

As for Bush (confused), he should have been impeached the day before yesterday.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

After reading the comments I have a few questions.

What is the mission in Iraq? Was it to depose Saddam? Or is it to convert the Muslims there to Christianity?

What exactly is the objection to slavery, since that keeps coming up?

How many of you know how it came to be that Americans place thier hand over their heart when they say they pledge? The answer will shock all of you. It wasn't originally done that way, not until after the second World War, when people realized that national socialism could lead to the indiscriminate slaughter of those not seen as nationalists. Originally it was done with the right arm stretched out at a 45 degree angle, palm down...then later changed to palm up as if uplifting the flag. The pledge was written by a national socialist, who inspired the National Socialist German Workers Party, otherwise known as the Nazis.

These questions might seem odd, but if we discussed them, then we could all see how the issues at hand really do go far beyond the issue of race.

As a for instance, most of you honor Lincoln for freeing the slaves. How many of you know that he also ordered all the Jews out of the South? Our history, and the issues before us today, have different origins and implications than most of us are aware of, or can even consider due to prejudices of politics and religion, both of which obscure the truth.

Posted by wisdomseeker (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LOL Sayitloud...something you don't know about me...I'm not easily roused into anger because a person cusses me or because they attempt to insult me by implying I don't watch the news. I'm very laid back, and comfortable in my own. Because of that, I'm not going to retort with some simple/childish insult. If you have seen him...I think you should go tell on him :-) Afterall, you are perfect, aren't you?

Peace.

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Swapmeet, your comments are completely out of place here. They show a willingness to engage in civil discussion, thoughtfulness, and an openness to other points of view. How dare you.

Have a great Easter weekend. (Have you heard the one about Obama's secret plan to outlaw Easter and replace it with a Muslim/Black Panther holiday?)

Please, no one start googling Obama Muslim Easter. :-)

Posted by wisdomseeker (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LOL @ sentas. Cute! LOL

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wisdom seeker ,you misunderstood . I was just trying to say that sometimes when the truth is too hard to accept , we tend to believe whatever we want to believe . It's really hard for some people to admit they could be wrong . My vote is still with McCain. But I will still worry about our country . There's a lot going on out there and we need his experience . He is tried and true . We need stability not more issues to rock this country . There will be a time for a woman president and a black one . I still think Condeleesa Rice should running for President . Even though I don't think she would make a better President than McCain at this time . She is one smart,tough woman,though. She has been a real asset to this country. Maybe next time.

Posted by wisdomseeker (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, I agree....truth can sometimes be hard...but remember....truth is perception.

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Swapmeet, your comments are completely out of place here. They show a willingness to engage in civil discussion, thoughtfulness, and an openness to other points of view. How dare you."

Surely you jest sentas. I would think that a person could come on here and have a civil discussion about issues. If we don't agree, then....we don't agree. The whole "we'll agree to disagree." I might tell you that you are completely wrong on an issue, but that doesn't mean I'll resort to petty, biting attacks and I will still respect you as an American and more importantly, one of God's creations. My Lord Jesus teaches me to love all, even my enemies (not saying you're my enemy, LOL).

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Our mission in Iraq was to go after Saddam and his followers so the people in Iraq could have a democracy without the fear of being murdered . Remember all the mass graves that have been found. Some even recently . And yes, Saddam probably hated the Terrorist as much as we do . He didn't want them in his country doing evil and maybe someday taking over his regime . But don't you think he used their evil to his advantage whenever he could ?Of course he did . The war is also still going on because we don't want our enemies fighting in our own country . We do enough of that between ourselves . Also we have a very sick economy that depends on foreign oil . Until we are using another form of energy ,we cannot do without it .

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay, southernbelle, thanks for the response.

I don't know what mass graves you are talking about, but if you will tell me where I can read about them I will do so.

The people in Iraq are primarily Muslims who believe in religous law, and not secular law. Their religous law is not democratic. There was a democracy in Iraq at one time, but the US assisted in it's overthrow. How do you personally propose we get a whole nation to give up their religous belief so they can accept the democracy we wish to give them? Will kiling more of them do the trick? They are split up into three primary groups. How much of each group needs to be killed so the rest accept democracy?

Please explain to me what Christian principles allow us to go and take the natural resource of another people because we need it. Would that be the commandment not to covet, not to steal, or not to murder?

Who put Saddam in power? Who funded and trained Bin Laden and Al-Qaida?

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And as far as slavery and history goes, New history says one thing and old history another . Believe whichever you chose . Lincoln freed the slaves in the south in the emancipation of the slaves . There was still slavery in the north until after the war . Slaveships were still being built in The New York Harbor . Many free men and women of color owned slaves themselves before and during the war . Maybe it was a small percentage but it was a small percentage of whites that owned slaves too . Many times the people held in bondage had a better lifestyle than poor whites . Every form of refuge has its price . Not every slaveowner beat their slaves anymore than every man beats his wife . It happened but it wasn't the norm

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

southernbelle,

I must respectfully disagree with your comment. I have supported Bush although he has made some decisions I don't agree with. Having said that: We did not go into Iraq to allow them to have a democracy. If that was the case, we would also be planning to go into Cuba, Iran, North Korea, China, etc. We went into Iraq because we thought that terrorists were operating freely there and that there were weapons in Iraq that we were afraid of them to get there hands on. Although I do believe that there were some weapons that could have been chemical or biological in nature, I don't believe it was on the scale that we originally believed. I think there was either false intelligence by accident or someone with a hidden agenda (and no, conspirasists, I'm not saying Bush, Cheney, and Haliburton, lol). I do believe that terrorists did have free run in parts of Iraq. I don't believe there was a connecton between Sadam and his ruling Bath Party with Bin Laden. Sadam was a tyrant murdering a lot of innocent people, but then again so has Castro, Kim, and Communist China. Although we might have went in prematurely, we are there. That is a reality, and to leave now without the present gov. being stable would make things worse than when we first went in.

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

George Bush, March 2003: "And our mission is clear, to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, to end Saddam Hussein's support for terrorism, and to free the Iraqi people."

Hm. No weapons, no link to Al Qaeda. One out of three... ain't bad?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/...

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

But, southernbelle, the question I would like answered is what is the objection to slavery? Do you feel it is wrong, and if so why?

Posted by sentas (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Pentagon, courtesy of Fox News:

WASHINGTON — A forthcoming Pentagon study has found no operational link between Saddam Hussein and Usama bin Laden's Al Qaeda terrorist network.

McClatchy Newspapers reports that the study, expected to be released later this week, is based on an extensive review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents that were seized after the U.S.-led war in Iraq in 2003.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,3367...

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 4:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur,

I don't agree with your point that Iraq is run by religious law. The Bath Party (and Saddam) who were Sunni Arabs, ran a secular government throughout his reign. Saddam did not consult Supreme Ayatollahs like Mahmoud has to do in Iran. Iran is a model of an Islamic nation. Turkey is a model of a secular nation populated by muslims. There is a huge difference.

I do agree with you on the three types of people. The Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds. The Kurds are not Arabs so they are different ethnically. The Shiites and Sunnis are both Arabs but stem from different sects of Islam that occurred after the "prophet" Mohammed passed away. They were fighting over who should be in succession for running Islam and the two fighting parties formed these two sects. This is a deep seeded ideological difference from before 1000 A.D. The reason this problem exists is because Great Britain drew up the lines of demarcation following WWI in 1918. They were splitting up the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire had these three groups in three separate "caliphates" which was smart. The British should have formed three separate countries with the Kurds in the North, Sunnis in the central and west, and the Shiites in the south, which is pretty much how they split of geographically. Instead the put them all together. Now you ask the question, "Well why can't they just form three parties now?". The reason why is that oil was not a factor in 1918. The Kurds and Shiites have plenty of oil in their geographic areas. It is bone dry of oil in the western, Sunni part. There would have to be some sort of resource sharing agreement between the three. Whew. Sorry if I bored you all.

Posted by tcauthen (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

perro you got off cheap at $749. I went in got four stiches and it was $1100.00 dollars. And you had insurance pay half.
My insurance has a $5000.00 deductible. Run the numbers and you see i paid all 1100.00 for two hours worth of emergency room service

Posted by wisdomseeker (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 5:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You're right, southernbelle....it's okay that own you and count you as if you are a piece of property...as long as i don't beat you. Hey, maybe I should come take you from your home so that you can work for me for free...as long as I feed and clothe you! :-) Just a little light humor to remind you...people are not and should never be looked at as property.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No, that is very good Swapmeet, not boring at all.

My point in that is that I don't feel we have the right to impose our style of government on others, and furthermore, it is impossible to do so unless we stay in constant occupation and force it under threat.

Hostility between the Sunnis and Shiites should not be a concern of ours.

If oil is our goal, we should just declare it to be so, kill as many of the resulting "insurgents" as it takes to promote their submission, and get the wells flowing.

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

southernbelle,

I stand corrected. The third part of the mission in the speech by Bush was to free the people of Iraq. I mentioned the first two in my comment but didn't think that was one. I will say that that would not have been the only reason to go in. It was just a by-product of going in for the first two reasons in the speech. If it was just to free people then we would be heading to Cuba and China to free those poort soul's.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 5:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I know we went in there to get rid of Saddam . But you know and I know it wasn't just about that . If it had been we would have been out of there and gone within no time . I wish it had been that simple . It's like saying the Civil War was fought over slavery . Money and Power had a big hand in it . Freeing all Iraqs from the tyranny of its government was another . Read the book"A Thousand Splendid Suns" by Khaled Hosseini . if you wonder about how the Iraqs feel about our being there . We are too diverse in our own religions in the United States to even want to change someone elses. I, for one respect their right to chose . We had soldiers die for that right . EnKi , of course I don't believe in slavery and I do believe in equal rights for everybody .

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 5:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Suppose they do choose a religous leader, southernbelle, who imposes religous law. Will you respect that right of choice?

I really would like to hear why you don't believe in slavery, what you think is wrong with it.

Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I see your point Enkirk

I have since changed my views a lot on the war. The problem is that we are there. We can't change that. It is a reality. Whether you agree with the original decision or not, we are there. The question we have to ask ourselves now is what is the best thing for our country from this point forward. Should we remain and make sure the gov. is stable and can make sure Iraq doesn't become a breeding ground for terrorists or do we just pull out and risk the possibility of anarchy becoming the rule; creating a conducive environment for terrorists to form. It is possible. I know you don't think it is, but look at Germany. Those people were full of hatred after WWII and had been brain-washed, but look at Germany today. A stable, economically independent picture of democracy. I know comparing Germany to Iraq is like apples and oranges when it comes to the pretenses of war along with the ethnicity of the people, but I'm saying look at the possibility of recovery. If they are immersed in democratic ideals for a while, I believe they will come to love them as we do here.

Posted by Hardcorps (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Back to the thread subject. From what I hear the Sanders' have been listening very closely to what the Right Rev. wright has been saying.
I will not vote for any American that hyphenates himself.
I'm an American, not English-American or European-American. If you put a country or continent before "American" then that's where you should go. Don't stay in America.

Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on March 20, 2008 at 5:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Swapmeet you are pretty sharp . Thanks for the info . Wisdomseeker , get real. I did not say it was okay to own slaves if you did not beat