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Some signs promoting hotel tax declared illegal
Published Thursday, May 29, 2008
Photo by Steve VanGunda
Political signs on public property — like the signs in favor of the hotel tax —are illegal.
NATCHEZ — Signs promoting a “Yes” vote on the proposed hotel tax on public property are illegal.
The signs standing on the grounds of the Natchez Visitor Reception Center and Margaret Martin Performing Arts Center are in clear violation of the sign ordinance, City Planner Rusty Lewis said.
Lewis said the ordinance requires that political signs are kept off public properties, are to stand five feet from the street and should be kept away from busy intersections.
Lewis said it his department works to enforce the sign ordinance based on the severity of the violation, but that the political signs had not been addressed.
It’s not possible to always have everything perfectly in order, he said, especially when it comes to the signs.
“There are a couple of incidents,” he said of the illegal placements. “I guess in a perfect world there should not be. It’s like sprinkling pepper — a lot of it gets where it should but and a few grains of pepper end up off the plate.”
“I wish it were a perfect world.”
In addition to placement of the signs, some people are also upset about the message being sent.
The $2 hotel occupancy tax would create marketing funds for the city to promote tourism.
On the signs, it says the hotel assessment will create “jobs, jobs, jobs.”
Alderwoman Joyce Arceneaux-Mathis, at Tuesday night’s regular board meeting, claimed the signs were misleading.
“In no way is this assessment tied into creating more jobs,” she said. “I consider this false advertising.”
While jobs may not be the most direct result from the tax, tourism officials argue that more jobs will be seen.
Sally Durkin, media liaison for the Convention and Visitors Bureau, is the first to say jobs will be created.
“It’s not misleading when all of the new hotels and casinos and the new Office Depot and all of these things have new jobs to offer,” she said.
It’s also about retaining those jobs, too.
“We need funding in order to market Natchez to maintain those jobs,” Durkin said.
By bringing in money to create stability in those entities, it all makes Natchez more attractive to potential business, too.
Durkin said marketing dollars are key to the development of the city and the development in jobs.
She made reference to a 2006 study conducted by the state division of tourism.
“For every $1 spent on advertising, $13 was the return,” she said. “That’s very strong.”
The signs were paid for by the private sector.
Durkin said this includes business owners.
Director of Tourism Connie Taunton said some donations came from the Country Inn and Suites.
Director of the Convention Center Walter Tipton said the convention center has also contributed donations to help pay for the signs.
Comments
Posted by natchez1 (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 1:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Joyce you are wrong - more tourists will mean more jobs. Full hotels & B&B's, will need more staff, full restaurants need more cooks and waiters, full downtown streets will spur more businesses, more tourists will lead to more types of recreation, more golf courses, tennis courts, spas, swimming pools, water parks, casinos, horse riding, kayaking, fishing, hunting, weekend courses etc. Tourism is more than old houses, many people who visit Natchez never tour a house, they enjoy driving by, enjoy touring downtown, playing golf or just relaxing. Natchez is a pretty town, people come for destination weddings, because we have beautiful historic churches of all denominations, and beautiful homes to hold a reception.
People need to realize that tourists have kept Natchez alive, they are not the reason industry left, and they do not just help the old rich blue haired ladies.
Tourist dollars help everyone in Natchez.
Posted by johnwentworth (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 2:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree completely, natchez1!
Posted by ntzmom (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 3:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I also agree Natchez1.
I am all for the 21 to 50 year old tourists that come do the things you wrote about. Those people actually DO spend money!
And I don't think the signs are misleading.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 3:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Alderwoman Joyce Arcenaux-Mathis, the people of the hearth and the field, bound under the Great Seal of the State of Mississippi to uphold the spirit of Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, Revels, and King call out to you to remain steadfast in protecting the power to tax entrusted on the hearth and the field, a power so terrible only those of the hearth and the field can appreciate the confiscation of labor the taxing power holds.
Remain steadfast against those who would impose a tax of one nickel per ten dollars on the very morsels of food that sustain the labors of the plow and the stove and would not themselves contribute that same nickel per ten dollars of their own earnings, even in expectation of profits of 1300 per cent!
Good people of the land, remove those signs from your property and return them to their rightful owners, and present them with a bill for your time and expenses and so show them that though you wield the plow and stoke the stove, you are no lesser than they.
Who are these who offer jobs to the people who have built the houses of commerce the would be taxers now inhabit? Who are these who now tell the builders and insurers of debt these jobs are at jeopardy? Are they of the people who must make sacrifice, or are they of the people who profit from what others must do? Do they stand with He who overturns the tables of the moneychangers, or do they stand with those who must be overturned?
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 5:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Two times two is four, but two times the estimated total of hotel rooms Natchez will have in a year is potentially close to $2,000 a day."- Democrat Editorial Board 02/29/08
Reuther also said the tax would not hurt the pocketbooks of those who regularly dine out in the area. “On a $10 meal, it adds a nickel,” he said.-Warren Reuter 01/04/08
Let's do a little bit of math, and see if what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
The hotel tax could bring in as much as 730 thousand dollars a year.
At an average room rate of 90.00 one thousand hotel rooms would bring in gross revenue of 32 million 850 thousand dollars.
It costs at least as much to eat out when staying in hotels as it does to pay for the room, so that is another 32 million 850 thousand.
We already know the one casino brings in 43 million.
Add all that up and you get:
Hotels: 32 million 850 thousand
Restaurants: 32 million 850 thousand
Casino: 43 million
Total: 108 million 700 thousand dollars
If the core of the Tourism Cartel taxed itself at the same rate it says would not hurt your pocketbook it would raise 543,500 dollars, which is just about what The Cartel says it needs to promote itself. From this investment of 543,500 dollars The Cartel Spokesperson tells us a return of an additonal 7.7 million dollars can be expected, according to her 1300 percent return rate.
Why should this Cartel expect you to give up your power to tax on their behalf, when they are already heavily incentivized by tax money to be here? They would tax you just as soon as they would tax others; they already tried it earlier this year.
Is what's good for the goose good for the gander? Or are we just the goose?
There are serious issues the people of Natchez need to address. The hiring of Tipton by Reuter. Rushed legislation for the occupancy tax that includes more than the two dollar per bed tax. The aggressive sell that private businesses should be advertised by tax dollars. The portrayal of the St. Catherine Creek Utility Authority as only for Rentech when it has been given power over all water and land in Adams County, and under the control of five men.
Is anyone seeing any patterns here?
Are you feeling plucked or what?
Posted by blackwood (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 6:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I rarely put political signs in the yard, but I would have put up one of these if I had been given the chance. I too believe this will be good for jobs in the community.
Marc Blackwood
Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 6:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"People need to realize that tourists have kept Natchez alive..."
-------------------------------
this is true. so why in the hell would you place an additional tax on the VERY PEOPLE WHO YOU SAY HAVE "KEPT NATCHEZ ALIVE"???
lower the taxes, use your "limited" budget to advertise THAT.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 6:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Marc,
You don't think those who would tax others should tax themselves first?
It would be good for the community if you or I could institute a tax on tourists to fund a business to create jobs, but we don't think of doing that do we? Nor would we be supported in an effort to do so.
What makes us different from Warren Reuther? He is the one behind this, aided by Walter Tipton.
I would support taxing the tourists if the Tourism Cartel matched the funds, which would allow for more and better advertising. If there is to be a public/private partnership, when does it start? Didn't the taxpayers build the convention center and the hotel? Are the taxpayers just to provide the capital and allow the Cartel all the profits?
I don't think so. I think it is a dangerous precedence of deception that the voters should and can stop. It is not the elected officials and their corporate friends who hold the power in this country, it is the people.
Posted by maple (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 7:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Joyce, This will have an effect on the local economy by bringing in more tourists through advertising dollars.. I recently stayed in a hotel in New Orleans and when I got my bill there was a 14% tax plus one dollar. Natchez has a 10% tax now and will have $2 on top if passed.. This doesnt hurt the locals pocket book.. I think the alderwoman should look at what she has brought into the local economy and see if it is as much as she takes home every month in her salary .. that she voted to raise two years ago .. I dont think she has brought anything into our economy..
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
She brought and still brings the basic ideas of democracy that protect us from exploitation maple. Democracy doesn't work if it is not practiced. What Alderwoman Arcenaux-Mathis brings is more precious than money.
The argument you make is not valid in the household maple. If Billy says, "but Mom, Jimmy and Tommy and David do it...everybody does it!", Mom answers "if they jumped off a bridge would you do it too?" Mom sees Billy's argument as inconsequential in light of her greater experience and maturity.
Avarice has gained such a hand almost anything has become excusable. The temptation to participate in this greed to take from others is being spread among the people. The Alderwoman stands her ground forthrightly.
Posted by maple (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
EnKiKur,, My point is raising her salary for a part time job that makes as much or almost as much as a starting police officer was not valid at the time either.. where do you think that money came from the sky? TAX DOLLARS they should put the alderman and woman on a job performance pay.. if you can truly help our community in bringing the jobs here like they tout every election then you get paid for your performance.. this tax will not come from our tax dollars but the visitors that come here.. recently a friend of mine went to LA and rented a car and there was a $3 added tax to car rentals for tourism advertising.. it didnt stop her from renting a car..
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Vote her out then maple, but don't take from others because they take from you. It is not the job of government to provide jobs for the people. The job of government is to set the standards of weights and measures to be used for commerce, and to defend the people from attack.
Her raise was perhaps justified. If more people would be more involved and attend meetings and insist that upcoming matters be discussed with reasons given then there would be no cause for ill wil.
Tell me, do you think you should pay a tax for breathing? I am not being condescending in asking this, your point of view is yours and I respect that, but I disagree. I would like a little discussion with you.
Posted by blackwood (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
EnKiKur, I fail to see how you have a problem with voters (the people) making this decision. Its easy to thumb through magazines and see ads for other tourist destinations. Its NOT EASY to find ads for Natchez. Hopefully this will help. If not, we'll try something else. I vote "Yes".
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The problem is in who is funding it Marc. It is very simple. The people represented on the proposed council are the ones promoting the tax. It is not for the good of the people, it is their good. The argument that it will create more jobs is just a temptation to get others to go along.
As I said, I see no problem with it if they match the tax collected with their own funds, for which they would get a tax break. Then, having their own money in the marketing fund they would have a greater interest in seeing it was wisely spent than if the money was put in there by others.
By your own reasoning, if the proposed tax creates more jobs, then twice that amount would create even more jobs. Since the Cartel will profit so much, why should they not pay an equal share of the marketing cost?
Posted by sandyman7 (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Have we noticed that a way for people to be able to spend more of our money, they always cry " JOBS....JOBS....JOBS
And what kind of jobs are we talking about...Low paying minimum wage that a person cannot live on with out have two or three of them at the same time....Don't brag to me of jobs when the town officals let the best paying jobs factory in this part of the state CLOSE DOWN and leave
the state....
Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well I just think its a little to high. I know alot of people that are staying at the low end motels while working in town. This is going to hurt the little man more than the tourists. I would of like to have seen this tax as a % instead of a flat amount.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
That is exactly my point sandyman. If they want to do business on our land, then they should pay a tax to the people just as they ask the people to pay to them.
If we get enough people visiting then that will create the opportunity for the common person to start his own little business for extra income. And it will create the opportunity for common people to band together to create their own small corporations just like the big ones.
We should use our vote to tax them and make them respect us.
Posted by OldGrandDad (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Sandyman, Do you remember this from Bruce Springsteen?
"Now Main Street's whitewashed windows and vacant stores
Seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more
They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back to your hometown"
Was this from the 80's? I don't remember. But it was true and it was prophetic. Take it to heart. The factory jobs are going. You can blame the town officials if you want to, but that is only sad. You should face reality.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The town is not responsible OldGrandDad, and you are right, they are not coming back. The new thing will be tech and green industry and I expect we will get some of that.
It was globalization that took the industry from here. And Carlson Group hotels is a global corporation, with over 985 hotels worldwide. If those that support globalism want to come back to our town, they need to pay our tax on them. It is just good business on the part of the people who vote.
Posted by lambchop (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
short and sweet - I am voting NO!
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 9:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Excellent lambchop, a vote for no is a vote for fairness.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Given what we have seen so far, I think a no vote at this time is required. There is no need to hurry. The bill as is needs to be amended to include a watchdog group made up of the people including a people's shadow of the officers of the proposed new tourism advisory committee. The people should have a vote equal to half of all votes on the advisory committee.
Posted by fatherof4 (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No more taxes period. ****Vote NO****
Posted by snatchez (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
does anybody remember that in the 70's a tax was passed called the hamburger tax for the purpose of building a convention center out by Natchez High. It was built, paid for but the tax kept coming. Another tax was added for another convention center. The problem is not the tax but what happens to the money. Who benefits from all the taxes( people who own the antebellum homes, the hotels, restaurants). the people get more jobs that pay minimum wages and the rich get richer. Look how these hotels don't have to obey the sign ordiance (country inn and suites)
Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
These people wanting this, I imagine, don't mind paying an extra dollar or two for a gallon of gas. The signs are ugly. I think it's funny that people downtown who are told what color to paint their house(usually white) put a yellow red sign in their yard. Let me tell you what these signs really say. They say "HEY! WE ARE BROKE, GIVE US MORE". This should be one of the biggest RED FLAGS as to the health of the tourist industry in Natchez. Just saying New Orleans and other towns do it doesn't make it right here. These other towns have so much more to offer than Natchez. Anybody whith any business savy would be doing something to make it cheaper to come to Natchez not more expensive. Did anybody read that there was 30 MILLION, I SAID, 30 MILLION FEWER DRIVERS ON THE ROAD THIS LAST MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND! They say this tax will increase jobs. Well, this town is taxed to the hilt by a convention center that was to create jobs and bring more people to town. Shut it down, cut the lights off, send the people home for 2 weeks every month, there is your advertiseing money. Well wait I think they are having a big ole fish fry there in a few days. Far cry from what it was built for. These people in power know that for now and the very near future these hotels will be full of workers working on jobsites for the new casino. I don't know if anybody ever looked but all the hotels were damn near empty all the time until construction started on some of the projects downtown. How many more times are the people going to sit back and listen to a select few in this tourist industry say we need this or we need that to get more tourists here.IS there ANYBODY, ANYBODY in this so called tourist industry that can stand up be accoutable and say we built this, we built that, we changed this and we changed that and it still has not worked or brought more people in. This starting to sound like a Britney Spears song ( OOPS, I DID IT AGAIN,HIT ME ONE MORE TIME). How long are they going to beat a dead horse. They need to cut back, clean up their tourist industry house, run it like a real world business before asking for a tax to get more money. What's wrong with this tourist industry in Natchez is the local goverment is involved in it. And everybody knows what happens when the goverment gets involved in things. WASTE, WASTE,WASTE,WASTE.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I remember snatchez. Thanks for reminding me of it.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Be patient NE. I think we are about to see a big new golf course suddenly appear, in the next twelve to twenty four months. The golfers can fly in on 727's to the airport and gamble and play golf.
If I were building one I would put it between Lake Concordia and Lake St. John.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Two years ago NE, I ran into a fellow up at Lula's One Stop in Fayette. He had just returned from an economic Summit in Greenville that was hosted by the head of the Federal Reserve Bank down in New Orleans. I think that would have been Mr. Boh, who also served as president of Boh Brothers Construction, or did at that time.
This fellow was very excited, but couldn't remember very well the exact nature of the presentation, for he said the man I believe to have been Mr. Boh turned it over to a female analyst who went through a long dissertation that went over everyone's head.
However, what he did understand about the Summit, and I forgive him for not being able to understand the financial aspects as he identified himself as a financial advisor and gave me his card, was that Mississippi is going to be developed as a retirment and second home community for rich people from other states. He also told me that International Paper was selling all its timberland in Mississippi so the owners could do other things. I have seen some of the things he said come to pass. He said Natchez was on a list of 19 communities to be developed in this way.
Build it and they will come is not a forecast of the future, but a statement of foreknowledge. That is why all this apparently unexplainable activity. As you know, all money originates with the Fed. It happened in Oxford and now it is happening here.
Posted by firered (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It bothers me that the same people that I see going on and on about Republicans being those who are out to get the rich, richer are the same ones for this tax. Snatchez is completely right, that's all this tax is gonna do. If it does bring in jobs its gonna bring in low paying jobs. And I totally agree with Alderwoman Arceneaux-Mathis, those signs are totally misleading. I commented about these signs yesterday on the poll question. There is a banner outside the Country Inn and Suites on the fence that caught my attention. I understand that if more tourist come there MIGHT be more jobs established, but to say JOBS JOBS JOBS is misleading. There is no guarantee that these places that will benefit will hire more people. And like I said if they do they won't be paying very much at all. I guess who ever said that Natchez has cheap labor was right. People are all for jobs, especially minimum wage ones. Rich people don't care about the lower classes all they care about is how much more money they can get all for themselves.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm pretty sure Mr. Reuther would guarantee a certain number of new jobs against a lien on his personal assets, aren't you firered? We just need to ask him, is all.
The EDA provides corporations like Carlson Group with detailed information on the residents of our community. I feel the residents should be provided with full financial disclosure on corporations like Carlson and how their relationships with Hotel Consultants and the NCVB are structured, so we will know better what to vote for and what not to vote for. How do you feel about that?
Posted by firered (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I totally agree. If they want us to vote on an issue they should present us with any and all information they can find for us and make it easily accessible. That way we make an EDUCATED decision, not just the one they WANT us to make.
As for Mr. Reuther guaranteeing jobs, yes I'm sure he would guarantee those jobs, but how long will they last. Can he guarantee these jobs to last a lifetime, or will these same people whose jobs he are guaranteeing gonna be out on the streets in a couple of years when these businesses flop?
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
fire, what would you say if I told you I drove through a town out west, in Texas, near I-35 that had six big box stores just sitting in the mesquite, painted in identifiable colors but no doors or windows at that time, with no nearby town? Coming up on them there was a sign that said "you are entering a free trade zone." in red, white, and blue.
The roads between the stores were dirt and the buildings brand new. There was construction equipment sitting around, but no people because it was a weekend.
That appeared to be a planned community being built to me. Do you think it is possible communities can be planned?
Posted by firered (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 11:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Perfectly planned? No. I do not think so. There are too many variables to plan something as vast as a community. There are no guarantees in life. You can plan and plan and plan and have it all worked out with no kinks on paper, but not all plans go through, not all plans work out like you expect them to. Just like this tax. They can plan all they want but they cannot predict the outcome. It may or it may not bring jobs, it may or may not bring tourists.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What you say is true, and is the reason the Soviet economy crashed. You can't predict what would happen in the future. If the Soviets made too much toilet paper, then they didn't have enough tractors, so there was food shortage. If they made too many tractors, there were toilet paper shortages and the people had to stand in long lines in the ice and snow waiting to get their allotment.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The question is, why do people keep trying it? There is a plan for the whole world right now, to be developed a certain way. You can read it yourself from the UN website. It is called Agenda 21, just google it. I have a friend in Holland who works on implementing it. She is what you might call a socialist. Oddly enough, I am what you might call a conservative. We fight like cats and dogs, because we are both right. She is organizing a big conference for Rotterdam right now, for July. Want to see what she's doing?
Posted by beamreach (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I just want to clear up something about a statement that was mentioned from a Warren Reuther quote in January about the food tax. Initially, the Tourism Council wanted the legilsation to assess $1 per occuppied room per day and increase the hamburger tax from 1.5% to 2%. There were a lot of complaints from local folks about increasing the food tax so that was removed from the legislation and the hotel assessment was increased by a dollar to make up for the revenue that would have come from the food tax. And, the way the new legislation is written, those funds will be protected from being used for any purpose other than promoting Natchez and the state will audit the funds every year. Everyone should call the State Legislature and request a copy of the legislation like I did. It cleared up a lot of questions that I had. It's Senate Bill 3191. Also, I think some people don't yet realize that the Convention Center/City Auditorium/Natchez Community Center, and the Convention and Visitors Bureau, are now two separate entities. I just recenlty traveled to New Orleans as well, and paid closer attention to my bill than I had in the past and they charged me 13% plus $2 per day and right now I think tourist only pay 10% in Natchez. That's 3% room tax on top of 7% standard sales tax. And I think only part of that 3% goes to the CVB for marketing. I'm going to the fish fry at the convention center tonight to find out more. And if the jobs that these new businesses create are mostly minimum wage jobs, so what, they're still jobs that weren't there before and you have to start somewhere. Most of these chain type hotels have management training programs that people can move into after a short period of employment too. I feel that this money will be well protected from city officials spending it on anything besides marketing the city and I'm going to vote for it because tourism is the biggest industry we have and people who travel are used to paying these additional fees. If we wait to get these funds we will lose out to other tourist locations around the state like the gulf coast and Tunica that have more gaming. I own a small bed & breakfast and I'm going to support the assessment.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
SB 3191 does not define marketing or advertising. It leaves it very open. That is something that needs to be amended before the tax is passed because Kevin Cooper has already suggested using 40 thousand a year to hire a house policeman to go after the owners of the rundown houses. Kevin defined this as marketing in his article and brings to light the looseness of the language.
Your remarks still don't change the fact that the Cartel is not willing to tax itself at the same rate they wanted to tax the people on their food, and the 2.00 per day rate works out to almost the same one nickel per ten dollar tax. I already figured it both ways.
It is not necessary to call the legislature and wait for a copy. You can just go to mississippi.gov and go legislature and search for it there. Anyone wanting to read it just let me know and I will provide the link.
I keep my money in Natchez and pay 50 percent of my income in taxes and I am going to encourage people to vote no until the Cartel agrees to tax itself at the same rate is says won't hurt anyone else.
Posted by firered (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So what? Minimum wage jobs require gas to get you to them. After paying all your bills, buying groceries to feed your family, clothes for your children, where is the money from a minimum wage job to put this outrageously priced gas into their vehicle?
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If our town wasn't being marketed as a source of cheap labor the people would have to leave and go to places where they could find well paying jobs and be better off. That is what all my family had to do.
Posted by beamreach (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 11:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Please explain EnKiKur to whom you are referring as the "Cartel" and how they should tax itself at the same rate? And marketing and advertising are pretty self explanatory terms.
Posted by beamreach (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And I got my copy of the legislation from the mississippi.gov site... but it's no longer available for download as SB 3191 under the regular session.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Cartel are the Hotels and Casinos and Restaurants who altogether can carry any vote. In law nothing is self explanatory. It is a maxim that deceivers deal in generalities. If you sign a contract to market something for someone it spells out exactly what that marketing consists of.
The Cartel can also make donations, give gifts and gratuities to a seperate fund and thus leverage themselves against grants the proposed advisory committee is empowered to seek and disburse. This allows a mechanism for a casino to fund an event targeted at a demographic likely to use their casino, and to have part or all of it paid for by the taxpayers, and make profit off the event and the gambling. Pretty rotten if you ask me. That part of the act needs to be amended too.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 12:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I wonder if I will be able to get the same grants and gift, donations, and gratuities to fund the event I want to hold for the Las Vegas Casino Workers Union.
They are a fine bunch of people and I would love to show them our area and the Forks Project and all that. I think it would go over very well with the people.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The way they should tax themselves is to fund a private corporation that takes one nickel per ten dollars of their gross and puts it into a fund, to be used to match disbursals from the taxpayer's fund. No disbursals allowed from the taxpayer fund without matching Cartel funds.
It would be tax deductible for the Cartel and they shouldn't mind it at all. After all, one nickel per ten dollars doesn't hurt anyone's pocketbook.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 12:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Had so many around here not been so controlling already, I could already be sending you customers for your B&B, without asking for anyone to fund my business.
Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Beamreach, did you sponsor a balloon last year at the balloon fest? Isn't that a form of advertisement for Natchez? Do you advertise your business in any other states or publications? Or do you just want the tax payers to do it for you so you and not me can make more money. If this is all about getting more jobs in Natchez, how many people do you plan to hire if this tax is passed or have hired in this booming tourist industry in Natchez? I am for tourism in Natchez don't get me wrong. But what does this tax give back to the non tourism sector.Imagine if every hotel and historic home that runs a tourist business sponsored a balloon how big the fest would be. I am sure you get perks already for being a b+b or historic inn. But, I don't blame you, If I had one I would want the tax to pass also. It must be nice to get free advertisement at the expense of someone else. I wish they would pass a tax to advertise every business in Natchez, not just the tourist biz. I could support that. I have been in business over 20 years and spent hundreds of thousands of $ advertising mine.Tell me why you deserve free adverising and I don't? Pie in the sky brother. Greed and selfishness comes in many forms.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 12:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Anyway, beamreach, this economic shakeout isn't nearly over, so the Cartel might as well hold its horses. No need to advertise to people who can't afford to come right now.
Let's get the wording right in the tax act first so everyone's interest can be served, and then we will agree to let the Cartel share the tax revenue the voters control. We need to see their money first. They know ours is there.
Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Is it just me or has anyone else heard the strange sound of silence by our downtown tourist bisiness bretheren? I think these signs up all over town speak of the one sided single mindness of the tourist industry in Natchez. BOY! you will hear a big ooooolaaalaaaa if you paint your house a certain color, or put a big vent on your business like fat mamas. The histerical society will come running wanting to know where your permit is, even shut you down if you don't have one or step over it a little! I wonder what would happen if any non tourist business put up a yard sign or big banners advertising their business at the visitors center or up downtown? For all those who say there is not a double standard in this town when it comes to tourism, look no farther than this article. I commend the Democrat for exposing it and finally shedding some light on it! GOOD WORK DEMOCRAT KEEP IT U!P. I WILL RENEW MY SUBSCRIPTION. And can someone please check on the permit numbers for these signs downtown and let me know what they are who signed them and who is supposed to be enforcing the law. FIRE THAT PERSON WHO IS ON THE PUBLIC TAX PAYROLL, THERE IS SOME MONEY FOR YOUR ADVERTISING. GOOD LUCK AND GODS SPEED!
Posted by beamreach (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Just curious, and no I didn't sponsor a balloon last year, I can't afford it, but NatchezEnema, are you telling me that not one single solitary tourist spent a dime at your business last year? I have one full-time and one part-time employee, and I pay plenty of taxes bretheren! What businesses do you consider part of the "non tourism sector"?
Posted by beamreach (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Also, I advertise on my own plenty and I have a web site that I pay for out of my own pocket too. These people that you are talking about are going to spend this money to promote NATCHEZ... the whole thing! Not just me, or Monmouth, or the balloon race, or the blues or music festivals.... ALL OF IT.... and that takes money... don't you advertise? You must get off pretty cheap if you don't have any idea what it costs to advertise in magazine's and other publications. I have an ad budget of $5,000 a year and believe me, bretheren... it doesn't go far at all. I'm still voting FOR the assessment because EVERY NATCHEZ BUSINESS stands to gain from tourists either directly or indirectly through increases in general sales tax. Maybe even you will benefit by more people coming here.
Posted by firered (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I won't benefit from tourists at all. What i would however, benefit from is a decrease in taxes for Natchez. How bout that? Lets vote on a decrease, in corrolation with your Increase. Someone pointed out earlier that a tax was put in force in the 70s to pay for the "convention center" behind the high school and it was still being paid for when they again increased the taxes to pay for the new "convention center" downtown. So if there was already and increase in there lets take that last increase off.. Decrease to what it was before... Or at least use that money for something other than the city's general fund. Like a raise for the police officers and firemen.... They are more important to me than some stupid convention center that I will never use!
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 3:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hotel rooms, meals, and casinos will consume the largest part of the tourism money spent in town, with that amount being reasonably at least 110 million. That does not leave much to be spent in non tourism sectors.
I have never noticed the slightest increase in my economic well being from tourism, nor have most I know. Most people do not work in the tourism industry.
You say that all of Natchez will be promoted but every Natchez add I have seen sports the old standby, the homes, or mentions by name some restaurants, and now the casinos.
Greed does not justify greed. Greed just is greed.
Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I feel your pain beamreach. I have 10+ employees being paid over 17 an hour with dental,health, and drug card insurance. So I know a lot about taxes too. Last year I spent over 50,000$ promoting my business across the country. That is a lot of business trips, business dinners, and handshakes, and that is a lot! One difference between you and me. None of it was paid from the tax payers pocket! I have to cut back in lean times, shuffle money around and work long hours to make things work. And no, I didn't have one tourist walk through my door. When things were tough I didn't say no to Sally when she said she wanted me to sponsor a balloon, for the fourth time I might add. There is a saying if it's too hot, get out of the kitchen, and, the Lord helps those who help themselves.If you want something you have never had do something you have never done.I applaud you for your business, we need every job we can get. But, from the sounds of it, it sounds like things are tough or a little rough for the "tourist industry" in this town. Why? I have been in business long enough to know you don't throw money at a problem without a game plan and that is what is going down with this tax. I will give you an example. You say you have a b+b. Has anyone from the visitors center,cvb, or any tourist panel in Natchez ever contacted you to ask how many people stayed with you lastnight, last week, or last year? Or asked how they could help your business grow? I highly doubt it! Looks like they would want that info or give you that support since you are part of the "tourist industry". Information is power, and these people in the goverment over tourism here want the MONEY first and then ask questions later. Natchez had a booming tourist industry in the 70's and early 80's. And you know what? We didn't have a visitors center, a convention center, a Natchez Trace entrance on liberty rd. or all of the things that millions of $ have been spent on beautifying this place. One more thing we didn't have when tourism was booming in Natchez. You know what that was? THE NATCHEZ CITY GOVERMENT! I think if we get them out of the biz there will be enough to go around to promote the tourist biz without a tax. They have just about destroyed the industry because of waste and a astronomical burden of lazy workers, mismanagement and lack of vision. You pay to advertise your business like I do mine. And if you or I can't pay it or make it work without putting our business advertising expense on the masses. I will move on to something new,and I hope you do to. Taxes and handouts have just about crippled this country.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Amen NE. That is the absolute truth.
Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 5:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Good thinking NatchezEnema!
Posted by ITSME (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 5:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mathis sure didn't have a problem voting for her own raise when already overpaid. This will help the city no doubt about it. Mathis should have been gone she is an embarrassment.
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 6:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Preach on NE. I have two employees that live in Natchez and my mother lives there. They are all voting NO on this tax idea. They all believe that it is ill-conceived and that it will be wasted like any other tax.
I believe that the advertising dollars need to be spent courting more prison industries and any smokestack industry that will talk to you. You may even need to call on more alternative fuel makers and try to get them to locate their. How about a solar panel manufacturer? Has anyone from the City of Natchez ever knocked on their door and discussed the fact that they may consider something of that nature in Natchez?
Tourism jobs will not keep the average family off of welfare. Try courting companies that offer jobs to people that can help them get off of welfare for a change.
Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 6:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you. One more thing, we didn't have, all these hotels or a casino for that matter when the tourist business was booming in the 70's early 80's. What happened to it? It's a damn shame that a few have messed it up for Natchez, then expect a tax to help cover for the free bleeding. PUT A BAND-AID ON IT AND START OVER. THIS INDUSTRY NEEDS AN ENEMA!
Posted by fire39212 (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 7:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Amen firered.........Just vote NO!!!! If they still can not tell you where they are going to spend this tax money other than on tourism..Why would you vote yes??? Just like Enkikur said it has already been mentioned to use 40,000.00 and that wasn't for tourism...Would you just hand someone $2.00 everytime you stayed at a hotel and not know why??? NE you are so right...
Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you Fire39212!
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My business is not dependent on tourism. Many many businesses in Natchez never see a tourist. Why not just put up donation boxes in the hotels, restraunts,and casinos. "If you enjoyed your stay, please donate to the Put Natchez Forward Fund" or something like that. As someone said earlier - if we are so dependent on tourists, why would we tax them more?
Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
so New Orleans charges 13%+.....yea, that's just what i'd do.
let me get this straight....the tax rate (inc. hamburger tax and "diverted" tax) is at 7%, PLUS an EXTRA 3% for tourism/CVB, etc. (10% total).
a 10% tax on a hotel room, mainly borne by tourists whom have chosen to come to Natchez and spend their money isn't enough???
what is enough?
Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Good Point Niderbip! Don't you just love the way someone spends your monies! The more they have, the more they want?
Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 8:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Vote No to all taxes! Except, to Law Enforcement Personnel and Firefighters! There needs to be better management and better presentations of proposed "spendings" of taxpayer's monies!
Posted by redusmfan (anonymous) on May 29, 2008 at 9:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Lets rescend the taxes that are already being plundered for personal uses( See Glen Allen ) and earmarked for particular industry( See Tourism Taxes) and get back to the basics with the government. This includes but is not limited too local officials, but state and federal also.
Posted by truthseeker (anonymous) on May 30, 2008 at 12:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
vOTE yES..i live in S LA. But i have family and friends that live in that area. When I come andstay in a motel,as lomg as it is Safe,clean, confortable. Dont mind paying a extre .50centsa night .To see your Beautiful sity.Also I am a Member of our local chamber of commerce.And they are always in need ofmoney to keep tourist coming to our town.I am not Rich and Ido not own a business.I am a volinteer,like most members. I know money is tight for most of us,But .50 cents a night ,every now and then WON"T break any travilor
Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on May 30, 2008 at 4:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
it's $2.00 a night per room.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 30, 2008 at 7:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
truthseeker, 500,000 a year from an industry that can reasonably expect to gross over 100 million a year won't break that industry either. Let them pay their own bills.
Posted by beamreach (anonymous) on May 30, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks truthseeker, and this comment does not apply to you... it would be nice if people who don't even live in Natchez, would keep their comments to themselves and not try to sway people politically or otherwise when the issue you're commenting on doesn't concern you in any way.
Posted by whataboutit (anonymous) on May 30, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Acutually, the truth seeker is another one who is trying to pretend to be a visitor. From the misspelled words from a chamber member of any city is pretty unbelievable. Sounds like a local trying to play dumb. Which is exactly what they accomplished.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 30, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
beamreach, I have spent several thousand dollars bringing people here to work on private projects. Sometimes I pay for rooms in Natchez for them. In additon, if you take the time to read, the EDA no longer recognizes traditonal state and county boundaries, we are bound together in development regions. I am in the same region Natchez is in.
Federal and state tax dollars from the eight states in our region are directed in the form of grants and loans to various sub-regions, counties, and municipalities in the Delta Region; all under the direction of a federal co-chair in Clarksdale, Pete Johnson, along with the governors of the eight states who form a commission. I have a direct and vital interest in every state in the eight state region because of this, and an even more direct and vital interest in what happens in Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, and Wilkinson Counties and Concordia Parish.
This is the "moving forward" and "visioning" and "progress" and "regional development" local politicians keep referring to.
If you are interested in learning what moving forward is, the Delta Regional Authority is sponsoring a conference in New Orleans this summer.
Posted by beamreach (anonymous) on May 30, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And for all of those who say there is no plan as to where the money will be spent... Sally Durkin said yesterday in the online chat session that the draft of the marketing plan for the money is available at the CVB, or the democrat has a copy, and that anyone is welcome to review it. And NE... just fyi, the CVB serves as a very good support system and they send the lodging industry a lot of business that we might not otherwise get. And yes, they do keep track of bookings and it's to make sure they know what kind of return they are getting from the advertising dollars. Look... the bottom line here is that no one locally is getting taxed and they're having to go with the $2 because no one was willing to pay an additional 5% on food. The CVB has struggled for a long time and if they take a "wait and see" position, it will go back to the legislature again next year, probably with the 5% attached for food tax increase, and the money won't be there for another year and a half. We can't afford to wait that long I guarantee you... I've seen businesses open and close in this town like the blink of an eye. And if you're business doesn't garner revenue from tourists, perhaps you should stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about those whose livelihoods very much depend on tourist business in the retail sector. Think about Darby's and Pearl St. Pasta, think about Go Mart, Shell and Exxon stations around the city. And here's an idea... if you're such a successful business person, why not start a business that will capture some tourism revenue for you... then perhaps you'll understand how the rest of us feel. This tax doesn't effect you in any way then you don't need to be trying to get people to vote against it. I'm quite confident that the money will be well safeguarded because the legislature and the state auditors office will be watching the money this time whereas they didn't in the past. It still has my vote.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on May 30, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The hotels, casinos, restaurants, and b&b's are not willing to pay a 5% on their food, which is their profit, to provide the same amount of advertising funds. Why should the people let their food be taxed? Or why should the people allow the taxing of the food for our visitors when those who will profit most won't pay the same tax on themselves?
Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on May 30, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree EnK!
Posted by NatchezEnema (anonymous) on May 30, 2008 at 2:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Beamreach, there you go again. I don't want my freinds, family or anybody else paying for your advertisment or mine. I wouldn't go in the tourism business in Natchez in the state it is in for nothing. I want to make money not loose it. Don't get me wrong, tourism is good for Natchez. But the " industry" is in a survival mode on the verge of collapse, not a succeed mode. Sally might as well been speaking arabic in her answers and the way she dodged direct questions. Lets see she said "It's a little premature to have a solid plan in place before you even know the money to fund it will be there too. The cvb has been cautious about trying to put a "new" plan together for this fund because they'd get accused of spending the money before it's even there. Why would they be accused of such? Poeple don't trust them? Wonder why. She said "It's a little premature to have a solid plan in place." In other words, there is no plan, plain and simple. Go to the bank and ask for a loan on a new business without a business plan in place. Do you know what they will tell you or me without one? Wanna take a guess? They will tell you " It's a little premature to be talking about a loan without one, come back when you have one"! I wonder why, if it's such a good idea, why don't they take it to a local bank and borrow 400,000$? Try that for one year, then see how it works. Know why they wont? Because their neck would be on the block and they are out of credit.They want someone else to pay, and if it flops, oh well, wasn't our money "The committee members will serve a two year term and just as an added bonus, the state is going to audit the funds every year. On the ballot the terms are very clear and I sincerely hope you will vote in favor". Who are the committee members? Who do they think will be the members? What bank will the money be put in? Beamreach, you say " I'm quite confident that the money will be well safeguarded because the legislature and the state auditors office will be watching the money this time whereas they didn't in the past. It still has my vote". You want the state to watch our money? How much was wasted in the past because no one watched over it? Even our country had forefathers with enough vision that a new bill of rights and a declaration of independace would need to be in place before our country could move ahead. Show me the playbook of how this tax will work. I don't need a link to the bill. Putting the law on the books is the easy part, putting it in action is the hard part. Oh, I love the pasta at Pearl st. Eat there once a week. Cliff is a good host.
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