Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 1:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Put into the larger context of where this whole Rentech fuel technology is headed and why it exists that "woohoo" is going to become an "uhoh" despite the fact that jobs are needed here.

Rentech is born of the Green Economy. As the Democrat reported in the Trinity story of the Earth Day Celebration "Green is the New Black".

In the language of symbolic color of the ancient Egyptians the phrase "Green is the New Black" can adequately be said to represent perfect mastery of the earth. Perfect mastery of the earth cannot be achieved by men, though man has made well known past efforts do so.

Today's version of world empire based on perfect mastery is based on a falsehood, a deceit, a lie. The earth is not in peril of man made destruction. The earth is not overpopulated. Water is not dwindling, and man's demise is not imminent.

The Green Economy is setting into place mechanisms that will allow the economy to based on a commodity that is one of the essential gases needed for life on earth, and that gas is carbon dioxide. This economy will be based on a commodity that is freely available and the birthright of all men. God's breath of life into the body carried with it the emission of carbon dioxide; basing the economy on carbon dioxide more specifically bases the economy on the rationing of carbon dioxide. The new economy will be built on the premise that man's breath must be rationed, and man must pay to breath. Who will man pay? God? No, man will pay the world's central banking systems, who have are now in possession of the oldest commodity economy was based on, gold.

Such an unnatural construction on the natural order of life is bound for doom. Rentech will suffer a brief heyday before a backlash of good sense takes hold and destroy's Rentech along with the notion that man must pay to breath.

Will we let the central bankers hoard our breath in the same way they hoard our gold? At this point the answer is yes.

Posted by Iredeu (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 6:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

So who is right?
EnKiKur who predicts Rentech's demise because it wants to capture and sequester CO2
or
the environmenalists that say Rentech will never do it enough?

Well, the CO2 captured will not take our breath away, but it will create an extra revenue stream that will take our breath away.
Jobs for Natchez: Wonderful!
It seems there is enough CO2 to go round...

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 6:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

you will think great when your carbon allotment runs out and the price you pay for a gallon of gas doubles.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 6:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Because, you see Iredeu, the extra revenue stream created will in reality just be more taxes taken from your pocket. There is only so much of that stream. There is no extra revenue stream created in reality. That exists only in the minds of the indiscriminate and the hucksters.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Just to show how absurd this whole thing is, Maurice Strong's first idea was to turn carbon dioxide into dry ice and ship it to the poles to stop global warming. He's not completely crazy though, he managed to buy up a whole aquifer out in Wyoming so now anyone who uses his water has to pay him. And if he can get away with making people pay him to breath, well, why not? If the earth is populated with dummies, as he is betting, then best to accept that and become rich being surrounded by them.

Posted by Iredeu (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, EnKiKur, this is what I think we're talking about:
(And you put it under an article about Rentech)

Rentech plans to produce fuels here in the future.
And we're talking transportation fuels, so what you use in your car.
Rentech will have more cost because it will take out the C)2 from the production stream. But, in the current political climate, it HAS to, (no choice) because otherwise the whole project would not happen.
What will they do?
They will produce extra fuel, that otherwise would not be there, and thus releave the pressure on the high price you and I have to pay for our fuel. Then, that sell the CO2, to a company that will use it for enhanced oil recovery (Denbury) The contract has already been signed. Apart from earning back the extra cost (that the carbon capture will cause) that will also increase oil production in the region, and releave even more pressure on the price we have to pay for our fuel.
I admit, since we're just talking about one project here, the overall effect will probably not be significant, but the concept is great.

Now, I admit that I am very much NOT convinced that carbon capture is a good idea in general, and that it is necessary. So we may agree there. But I secretly think that maybe - even if carbon capture would not be a prerequisite for this kind of job creating projects - it would STILL be a good idea economically, because it creates extra revenue for Rentech, AND will create more oil production in the region, A double whammy, against one time extra cost in the production process. I think it may even be economically prfitable in the end (But that is speculation on my part, and I'm NOT an engineer SO my foot may be in my mouth here.)
EnKiKur, I think your point is valid, but just not in THIS case.

For disclosure purposes:
I am a shareholder in Rentech.
I live in The Netherlands, Europe, and I have visited your beautiful city in April. I enjoyed myself tremendously, and hope to visit again.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 7:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Great, I have a friend in Rotterdam. The amount of fuel Rentech is going to produce is extremely small.

Hemp oil would burn just as clean and be a whole lot cheaper to produce in much higher quantities. Of course, as you say, the political climate.

One bright ray of hope is that the Securities and Exchange Commission is investigating the carbon exchanges to see exactly where the money is coming from.

Feel free to email me. I'd like to chat.

Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Regardless, I am very happy with them and had the pleasure of meeting a couple of their people from Colorado back in April and learned a lot from them. Super smart people.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

To be fair to Rentech, Iredeu, you are right. My point does not apply to Rentech, but to the idea behind the politics that makes Rentech even possible.

Rentech can be thought of as a carbon dioxide generator, one that costs 4.5 billion dollars. It will produce about 400 thousand dollars worth of fuel per day at full production, maybe. The fuel itself, made from coal shipped down the river and processed using conventional fuels, may or may not be a net energy gain when coupled with the oil recovered from putting the carbon dioxide into the ground.

It is a cool idea though and who knows what ideas may be born from it? The most intriguing part of it to me is the possibility of using biomass to produce the fuel.

The politics though protect existing polluters and greatly inhibit the birth of new energy projects due to regulation. I've read about a clean burning coal fired electric generating plant in Texas being denied a permit because of carbon emissions. So the old guard that created the supposed problems stays in business polluting, and the competition is shut out.

Posted by RCBokey (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur , check your math. 29000 barrels of diesel per day ( which will be full production ) at 42 gallons per barrel at 4 bucks plus per gal. is much closer to 5 Million per day.

Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

EnK-Did you buy any stock yet?

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, you are right, I messed that up. But it won't be 4 dollars a gal. if the government uses it because it won't be taxed. It would only be that price if used on the highway. Still, it will be at least 2.5 million a day.

Do you know if there is a net loss or gain in the conversion process factoring in transportation and processing costs?

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No, but I am going to if it goes down some more Hudson because it should go up and down a lot for a while. What is it today?

Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

EnK-Yesterday, it closed at $1.96, right now it is hovering at $1.99!

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What did it go up to after the 175 million in GO bonds were okayed? Do you know?

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And does anyone know how many tons of coal it takes to make one barrel of syn fuel?

Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 11:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I talked to one broker, she's checking it out. I going to watch it for a day or two. With the selling of the bonds and I understand that they will have some government contracts coming up very soon. Now would be a good time to buy a bunch, although concerned about the future, have to take a chance though!

Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Also, I am very concerned about the Presidential RACE! I think that the markets will be affected very greatly if McCain does go in?

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 11:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Nah, I wouldn't worry too much about that Hudson. If anything green fuels will benefit. The Democrats want to build an army of environmental 'green collar' workers and the only way to pay for that is through war, so we should be safe. Nancy Pelosi has been waiting with her tongue hanging out to put Agenda 21 up for ratification so they can force it on the people... Chapter 18 of Agenda 21 calls for children and women to be recruited as environmental police.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

We still have Iran, Syria, and Venezuela to invade. So the future of green fuels for exporting democracy looks bright.

Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on June 5, 2008 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You made my day!

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on June 7, 2008 at 12:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

For those of you interested...the St. Catherine Utility Authority was set up specifically to supply Rentech with water for their manufacturing processes, to maintain the landfill, and deal with Rentech’s solid waste, which will be substantial when demolition of the existing IP buildings occurs.

It was basically created to facilitate this specific economic development and no other. The reason the Authority was created was to remove from the county any liability related to providing Rentech with water, storm drainage, sewer, or solid waste issues particularly with the EPA.

Rentech was supposed to buy their water from the Authority. Rentech then got cold feet when one of the members of the Authority convinced some others to hire a Jackson lawyer, who came in and mucked up the works forcing Rentech to opt to supply their own water rather than be at the mercy of a renegade authority and their outsider lawyer.

When Rentech opted out of the water portion, it left the Authority with only the landfill responsibilities. They have had their teeth pulled by the BOS, because they overstepped their bounds and now they have no substantial mandate except the landfill which will only be a caretaker function, i.e. grass cutting when Rentech fills the remainder of the dump with construction demolition debris. I might add that they don’t have jurisdiction over any of Rentech’s sewerage or storm drainage as they have their own water treatment plant, probably better than the county’s, inherited from IP.

They also serve at the pleasure of the BOS which can, and I’ve been assured will, shut them down or change the makeup of the Authority if it is deemed necessary.

The BOS has received from Rentech not only the funds mentioned and a SECURED promissory note, based on the collateral contained in an escrow account that Rentech has, but also has received several parcels of land some containing buildings and other improvements that were formally IP property that Rentech didn’t need, but the county could use for various purposes.

I have had some communications with players involved and have been quite and surprisingly impressed with the savvy and acumen of some of the BOS in this deal…I’m much relieved and I hope you will be too. I wish though that this was more publically well known, too many people are suspicious of politicians...sometimes they're just citizens trying to do right by their fellow citizens...I think that's the case here.

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on June 7, 2008 at 4:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There's no doubt in my mind that Rentech is a good venture for the country and for Natchez.

We talk of jobs and economy, but there is a more pressed need. SURVIVAL> We all know the facts of survival, liquid hydrocarbon we need to survive. Some people don't understand that we are at war and oil is an integral part of that war. There is an enemy that expresses intent to destroy our way of life. Oil is one of their weapons. That is why the price will stay high and Rentech has an opportunity.

We all know we need all the sources of energy possible. Anything to shake off our dependency of foreign and especially OPEC oil. OPEC oil is being used as a weapon against the USA. Rentech is one beginning tool to gain more knowledge of large scale production of alternative fuel.

I support Rentech and will buy stock, I wish I had the extra money a few weeks ago when the stock was down to 80 cents. But I think any price right now is a bargain as I predict it will go past $20 quickly in a few years when production actually starts. At that time oil could easily be $200 a barrel and gasoline $10 a gallon. Maybe even higher if Obama gains the Presidency and Iran creates a larger empire in the middleeast by taking control of Iraq, Kuwait, etc and destroys Israel. Other muslim countries, out of fear, ( Saudia Arabia, United Emerites, Libya, etc) will all line up and form a huge force of united Islamic Fundamentalists with a focused intent of destroying western civilization, not only the USA but also Europe. Maybe I'm a little paranoid in some regard, but it could happen if we let it. Even if McCain gains the Presidency, still there is nothing on the horizon to pull the price of oil down. Only if China and India had a massive population decrease would the price come down. Maybe if OPEC decided to open up and pump more oil would the price come down, but they will not do that now. I think OPEC has realized they have a finite source of oil and are being influenced by antidemocratic philosophies to restrict oil flow and keep the price up for the specific purpose of hurting our economy and influencing politics.

Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on June 7, 2008 at 9:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Krogers- very good points! RTK dropped to and closed at $1.97 Friday. I also understand that "things" are "gearing" for a situation that could happen in the Middle East! I feel that Owhampy will not go in! Gut-feeling! I bought a "bunch" at $2.09 at the beginning of last week.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on June 7, 2008 at 10:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Interesting historical note...we, the US, basically forced Japan to attack us when we embargoed oil from them as they were starved for it...now, even though we have tremendous reserves of energy of various types, many which aren't petroleum based, we've been brought to heel not by OPEC, which really doesn't control the supply of crude like they used to, but by home born and bred environmentalists which have crippled our refining capacity, nuclear development, offshore and onshore drilling, coal, shale and many other energy opportunities...all in the name of a pseudo-science theory of man-made global warming.

Another historical note...the Germans perfected the synthetic fuel process during WWII when all their supplies of natural crude except from Ploesti were cut off...it was a time when natural crude was either too costly, too rare or even unavailable...oil from coal, of which Germany had a surplus, became their near sole source of supply for three years of all out war...why can't we take a page from their book and make something good from something that first had a sinister aim?

Posted by xenon314 (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 10:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

EnKiKur -

You, buying stocks? For shame - recall your post from May 27:

"I regard market speculation as usury for sound reasons. Only those who have no basic understanding of how our system works would regard it as anything else. When one person gains, another loses in the markets."

Tsk, tsk...what is buying stocks but market speculation? And here I thought you were a man of conviction...

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes Xenon, I am going to capitalize on this bubble. When Rentech gets down to a nickel or dime, i am going to load up and go short.

And Sam, the oil companies are funding the environmental movement. It serves only to drive up the price of oil. Al Gore, Maurice Strong, David Rockefeller, and the British princes are all oil men, and they are the ones ramming this environmentalism down everyone's throat.

Synthetic fuel from coal is not viable and all the wishing in the world will not make it so. Producing fuel from coal creates twice as much pollution as producing fuel from oil. Coal-to-liquid is neither viable nor cleaner, pollutants removed from the ctl process must be disposed of somewhere and I'm guessing it is not going to be hauled into outer space on our antiquated shuttles. That means it will be stuck right down here in our environment.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Creek Authority was not set up just for Rentech Sam. The Supervisors may have been told that, and may believe it to be so, but it is not so. The Authority is the pollution control agency for Adams County and is set up to liason with the EPA. The Authority itself may not even know it yet, but that is the simple truth.

If you visit http://www.msgulfregionplan.org/index.ht... which is the homepage of the Gulf Region Plan and read the links you will see that the bill that created the Gulf Region water authorities is the model for the bill that created the Creek Authority. After establishing county authorities in each of the six counties in the Gulf Region, a single Authority for all six counties was created and took onto itself the power to set rates, fees, assessments and to control devlopment in that Region.

You will also notice three little e's arranged in a triangle on the lower left of the Gulf Region homepage. These three e's are the e's of Sustainable Development as set forth in Agenda 21 Chapter 18, dealing with water. One of the jobs of the Authorities, which have been established all over the world, is to first catalogue all the water supplies so they can be put into inventory and managed centrally.

Agenda 21 was developed by Maurice Strong, Al Gore, the Duke of Edinburgh, Mikhail Gorbachev, David Rockefeller and many others of strong socialist leaning. If you don't read about these things, the actual documents themselves, you won't know these things. But the documents are prepared by national and international governing bodies and published on their websites and they plainly state what the plan is. Fully enacted, the masses of the people will be allowed 40 liters of water a day, about ten gallons, for which they will pay dearly.

You can try to debate me on the specifics of this if you wish, and that is okay, but you will not win the debate. I can convnincingly support my case with the words of the federal government you so dearly admire.

Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Back in the "Groove"! Enk!

Posted by xenon314 (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 5:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

From what I've been able to find from research:

4,790 tons per day of coal yields 6,083 barrels per day using the Fischer-Tropsch process of coal liquefaction.

One project that seems to have value is a joint venture that will take the CO2 from the T-P process, use it to grow algae, with the byproducts being O2 and biomass. The biomass can then be used further as fuel. There will still be carbon emitted but first estimates seem to show that there will be less than with either T-P coal liquefaction alone or with traditional oil consumption.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 6:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And of course one volcano eruption will undo several hundred years of any carbon savings created by this process, making man's contribution insignificant. This is the real intent, SB 2191 which is the bipartisan America's Climate Security Act of 2007. What does this bill want to do?

"The bill would also establish a nonprofit private corporation called the “Climate Change Credit Corporation” that would essentially collect money based off of carbon credit auctions. This is outlined in Section 4201 of the bill which is shown below.

SEC. 4201. ESTABLISHMENT.

(a) In General- There is established, as a nonprofit corporation without stock, a corporation to be known as the `Climate Change Credit Corporation’.

(b) Treatment- The Corporation shall not be considered to be an agency or establishment of the Federal Government. "

The bill wants to set up a new non-elected taxing authority, and most likely this piece of socialist garbage will pass because America is edcuated through 'America's Funniest Home Videos', 'American Idol', 'MTV', 'Dancing With the Stars', 'Judge Judy', 'Oprah', and the public school system where "earth sciences" is being taught.

Taking a page from the Roman slave owners manuals, Agenda 21 wishes to put women and children in charge of environment policing; environment taking precedence above all else men will therefore be under the rule of women and children. Environmentalism is based on the elements of earth, wind, water, and fire which are familiar themes on pagan and neo-pagan religions. It is a new religion disguised sometimes as science and sometimes not disguised at all, nothing more than a tool for promoting world socialism.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 7:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Holy cow EnK...this is the most bizarre bunch of, well, biomass, I've seen you utter to date...do you REALLY think that the little ole St. Catherine Utility Authority is part of a grand conspiracy including such people as Mikail Gorbachev et al? Do you really think that there is a level of sophistication or consipiracy that could be summoned from the folks at the Adam County Board of Supervisors, The St. Catherine Authority or even the Gulf Region water authorities to rise to the heights you suggest?

The BOS was simply trying to get water to Rentech and take care of their construction debris at the landfill without assuming the liablility...end of story...these people wouldn't and probably couldn't create such a megalomaniacal scheme as you suggest.

In this case, democracy worked, taking an over-reaching utility authority off at the knees...end of story.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 7:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I know damn well it is Sam. That is what all the permission for boring is about. That is outlined in Agenda 21. And you are right, the BOS didn't concoct this scheme. Many think tanks dreamed this up and have been working on it since 1945. Carroll Quigly announced the plan to the public in 1968 in his book 'Tragedy and Hope'. Michael Rothkopf just wrote an updated version called 'Super Class- The Global Elite' talking all about how socialism is the answer to the problems of corporatism.

It is all in the public record. You just have to read to see. If you don't read, you want see. These authorities are being set up world wide.

The Creek Authority hasn't been stopped yet though. It is still there. What the supervisors and voters need to do is to get it repealed. As long as it is there it can do what it was set up to do, one way or another.

And quit saying conspiracy. It is public policy. SB 2191 is real. Go read the Commerce Dept. Economic Development Administration website and you will see. This is just public policy but the publc is too busy being entertained to keep up with what is going on. Too busy voting for fake smiles and catchy slogans.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 8:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A small sample of articles on water authorities:

http://www.freedomadvocates.org/category...

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 8:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Reading is the only way to learn. Sorry but I lost all my files in my computer glitch so I am having to rebuild them from memory. But take a look at this and I will explain how it is relevant:

http://www.freedomadvocates.org/articles...

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 8:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Enk...no need get all worked up...look many utopian schemes have been espoused, broached, even instituted as governments in some countries...none have ever really done well or lasted long, even the communist (the longest lasting utopian idea) has to all intents and purposes fallen of it's own weight.

I told you the Authority is still in existence to monitor the completion of the landfill from Rentech construction debris, monitor for hazardous leakage into the ground water, and cut the grass...I'm sorry, but I just don't see a global conspiracy there...and yes, Agenda 21 must be a conspiracy, everyone that I've read who comment on it negatively calls it a conspiracy. Agenda 21 may be a UN conspiracy for global dominance of a centralized socialist welfare world state...but, c'mon the rednecks here in Mississippi aren't gonna let it happen on St. Catherine Creek without a shotgun getting involved...lighten up a little.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 8:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sam, the rednecks here in Adams County are all but full fledged socialists since the depression of the 1930's starved them into submission. The outposts of traditional American thought are still there, but sparse.

And I don't care what you told me, I have read the bill and others like it and I know what it is there for. It is there for control. I don't care what somebody told Henry Watts. I've been studying this stuff for a couple of years now.

Local authorities are how Agenda 21 is carried out on the local level. The local program itself is called Local Agenda 21. Look it up.

And who created the UN? Does the name United Nations bear any resemblance to the name United States? Where is the United Nations headquartered, and who donated the land? It is in New York, on land donated by the Rockefeller family. Is Concordia Bank a bank for Concordia Parish? Then, if names mean anything, what is the World Bank for? The World, maybe?

And I am not worked up. I just see very clearly what is happening and I think the founding ideas of America deserve a chance to work. That vision is so blurred people in Natchez cannot even see that voting in a tax to help a small business segment is totally against those founding ideals...just because they are exercising the democratic power to vote themselves a gift from someone else's pocket.

I am a Mississippian by birth and by God, an American by geographic location, and a United States citizen by federal occupation and force of arms. That is my stance, I will defend the land of my forefathers and the land of my birth against the threats our constitution set up bulwarks against.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 9:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnK...man, that's courage...I don't think I'm gonna be telling any rednecks to their face that they're socialists anytime soon...LOL.

I've read the bill too and Agenda 21 and some commentary on both sides of the UN resolution...nothing in the bill is in anyway related to Agenda 21 unless you are very paranoid...in fact, in the bill the local democratically elected government is encouraging economic development, without exposing the people of Adams County to the associated liabilities by formation of the Authority, through providing water, waste water and solid waste removal, and storm drainage...all of which became moot, with the sole exception of solid waste to a dump soon to be filled, when Rentech said NO, and then so did the BOS.

OMG...the socialists have taken over the grass cutting responsibilities of a dump!

I don't like the UN either, nor do I like the World Bank and I'm not generally in favor of quoting renowned Democrats, but in this case I think Tip O'Neil was correct when he stated that "All politics are local."...that kernel of truth is what will defeat the big conspiracy take-over-the-world types...it always has...much of the rest seems to me to be the stuff of Chicken Little.

Fight the fights that ARE really scary and can potentially become reality...like Hillary and Obama in their quest for nationalized, single-provider healthcare that will bankrupt the country.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 9:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sam, Agenda 21 is forty Chapters long. I will break down the similarities in the local bill when I have time with excerpts from Agenda 21. Economic development is one of the three e's of Sustainable Development. It means public/private partnerships, which we see plenty of locally.

Why is a body concerned with cutting the grass at a local dump also the same body in charge of Economic Development? Because the two are very closely related. The Creek Authority, if left in place, can direct where development in Adams County can and cannot take place. It is a central planning tool and with all the talk about city/county consolidaton, also an aim of Agenda 21 and Commerce Dept. doctrine it is very clear to me what is happening. The local supervisors may not know iit, even the local EDA may not know it, but what happens in Natchez is decided at the Regional level under the Commission of eight governors and the federal co-chair. You just haven't read enough.

Posted by xenon314 (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 9:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sam -

I'm right there with you - EnKiKur, I promised myself I wouldn't get sucked into something with you again, but you are one bitter, paranoid individual. You are an American only by geographic location? A United States citizen by federal occupation and force of arms? Spare me. Nobody's got a gun to your head making you stay here.

Your stance is arrogant - you make it sound like you are the only person who can see what is really going on...and your sources that you cite...first Rex Curry, now freedomadvocates.org...the latter having articles with such titles as:

"Santa Cruz - The Gestapo of the West"

Quite frankly, I am offended. I would venture to say that the worst that Santa Cruz could do would not approach anything that the Gestapo could do. My dad was a WWII vet in the Pacific, and his brother a P.O.W. in a German camp. These are your sources of information?

Perhaps you've forgotten what happened in WWII.

Read the Nuremberg Trial documents:

http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/doc...

I've tried citing peer-reviewed articles for you on other topics, to no avail. You've cited them in return, though apparently without reading them thoroughly, because on further inspection, they refuted, rather than supported, your positions!

Your main sources of information seem to come directly from the Internet web sites that have just as bitter & paranoid tones as you yourself do. If someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of impugning your character.

I presented a valid scientific approach to Rentech's CO2 emissions, and you write, "And of course one volcano eruption will undo several hundred years of any carbon savings created by this process, making man's contribution insignificant".

Wow. Cynicism, paranoia, and bitterness all in one package. And only you have the answers for all of us poor ignorant folk. You really are something else.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 9:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnK...don't bother, I've read the chapters...I don't need my hand held.

Economic Development would be a part of any development plans whether they were sustainable or not...the public/private part locally is just a tool to create development and limit public liability.

The Authority is not in charge of nor can it direct economic development...the BOS can discharge any and all members at its discretion and even abolish it altogether.

City/County consolidation is a red herring that gets tossed about every four years but has zero chance of succeeding...particularly since the Mississippi constitution for all practical purposes prohibits it.

As far as the regional control of eight governors and a federal co-chair goes...you saw what happened after Katrina when only four governors and one federal officer were involved...I seriously doubt that governors in predominantly conservative states, divided by two parties and political philosophies could agree on anything to the extent that an Agenda 21 would require for success.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 9:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am not surprised you are offended Xenon, and I don't recall you citing any peer review publications. I believe it was I that pointed out to you that Rex Curry's source on the baby seat story was a peer review publication, the BMJ.

I know what happened in WW II A bunch of right wing Christian National Socialists had a dream of building a perfect world populated with perfect people and set about enacting policies first codified in the Virginia Sterilization Act of 1924, used by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. to try a test case involving forced sterilization of a native American girl.

The Nazis were aided in their efforts by many western capitalists, including some right here in the US such as the Fords, Winchesters, Bushes, Kennedys, Duponts and others too numerous to list.

Their synthetic fuel industry was financed with credit issued on all the gold the Nazis went around stealing from the banks of countries they occupied, plus what they stole from all the undesirables they could catch. That gold was stashed in Swiss banks and some of it not returned to its rightful owners until late in the last decade, and some of it never returned.

You haven't presented a valid scientific approach to Rentech's participation in the global warming scam. 33,000 scientists worldwide say global warming is not man made. Three hundred of the scientists listed on the Kyoto papers say their names were used without their permississon. That is 33,000 to 3.000. Believe in fraud if you think it will make you rich.

Volataire said if you can make people believe in absurdities you can make them commit atrocities. That is what happened in Germany prior to WW II and that is what is happening in America today. The polar bears are still amorous and they haven't forgotten how to swim. Florida is not going to be underwater in twenty years.

By the way, I do have some inside knowledge on your coal figures I thnk you will find interesting. Regarding the loss of energy involved in converting coal to liquid. You will find it fascinating.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 9:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If the BOS does not go along with EDA dictates grant money will dry up for Adams County. That is the way it works. You get money for going along.

Posted by xenon314 (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 9:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ah, yes...I did misspeak. I quoted from Thomas Hobbes' "Leviathan" and Karl Marx's "Das Kapital". My apologies...I read the BMJ article that refuted Rex Curry's arguments...

You are so wrapped up in your yourself, though, that you didn't notice:

I never mentioned global warming.
I never mentioned the Kyoto protocols.
I never mentioned polar bears.

And OF COURSE you have inside knowledge on coal figures. You have inside knowledge on everything, it seems.

No, I really don't think that I will find anything you have to say interesting. Perhaps I did at one time, before I read enough of your posts. I'm just going to go back to my ignorant little life, work on my obviously worthless Ph.D., and leave the Big Picture to intellectually superior beings such as yourself...

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 10:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnK...an over simplification of the Nazis, their rise to power, the underlying reasons for it, but basically correct.

The statement about financing the Nazi synthetic fuel industry was slightly misleading in that the Holocaust gold and captured gold financed many other portions of Germany's war effort as well...synthetic oil was a necessity since Germany had been cut off from all reserves of natural crude with the exception of Ploesti and lost them in 1944-45.

I too think that the global warming scam is a scam. There are too many scientists arguing with some even saying that we're not looking at a warming trend, but a cooling trend since the sun has receded from a particularly active cycle. I think Rentech should be able to make a buck if their process is viable financially...if they can sell their byproduct again turning a buck to someone else who can turn a buck putting it back in the ground, hey...go for it...but creating a false economy based on a scare about something that is so scientifically disputed, THAT is fraud.

Polars bears still don't need Hillary and Obama to issue Viagra?...we can't go fishin' for marlin out of Bainbridge, Thomasville, or Valdosta...Floridiots will still be Floridiots when they drive around downtown?...LOL

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 10:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Xenon, this is what I am talking about. A month's production at Rentech will require, according to your figures 20 barge loads of coal. Bringing that coal from dock to dock down the river from Illinois will require at bare minimum 2300 bbls of diesel fuel. It will require diesel and electricity to get it out of the ground and to the dock, to load it on the barges, to get if off the barges, and to get it to the plant in Natchez. There will be a net loss of energy that will be sizable. The only customer capable of absorbing that loss will the government because they will just take the money from taxpayers.

Further, if they treat this fuel like ethanol, then the Rentech fuel can be mixed with regular diesel and called clean fuel, for which the diesel refineries will get a 30% tax break. One gallon of ethanol makes several gallons of the mix qualfying for the tax break. This is another form of public/private partnership.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 10:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnK...as I recall Rentech was going to be making jet fuel and other superclean, high octane fuels for military and specialty use...such as the M1A Abrams big gas turbines...also there was supposed to be biomass fuel produced, of which we have a lot of potential locally...like I said, if it is financially lucrative go for it...if it has to be subsidized by the government I'm not for it.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 10, 2008 at 7:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, Sam, jet fuel is high grade diesel. All the NATO and soon if not already all the OCED countries have agreed to use the same fuel for their war machines. This is TQM standardization. The intended customer for Rentech is the military. That is paid for by the taxpayers under the leadership of the same Pentagon who buys 750 dollar hammers, pays 100 dollars per load of clothes per soldier in Iraq to Haliburtion, and who cannot currently account for 2 billion dollars in Iraq.

Mixing the Rentech fuel with existing fuel will let existing suppliers into the market; the environmental impact will be the same if the fuel is spread out and will enable existing suppliers to qualify for the tax breaks of clean fuel. It's another win/win for Rentech, existing suppliers, and the American people.

A curious thing about using biomass to make fuel is that biomass is what replenishes the fertility of the earth. So, in order to keep producing biomass the forests and fields will have to be fertilized with chemicals instead of the organic fertilizer of degrading biomass. Fortunately Rentech is also in the chemical fertilizer business so no worries there. And I am sure they have a secret patented process for curing the growing dead zones in the gulf caused by nitrogen runoff from the Mississippi basin.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 10, 2008 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh yes, noneya, that is an original I call 'Monmouth'.

Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on June 10, 2008 at 7:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EnK...gotcha, jet fuel is either kerosene or naphtha based, not diesel, and it's been pretty much standardized through out the world for decades...it tickles me when I catch you saying something that is incorrect because you seldom are in your facts...it's just how you put the facts together sometimes that worries me.

NATO has used the same jet fuels, and there are differing types for differing jets, but the most common is Jet-A, used in most military and commercial jets, for years.

OCED countries?...did you mean OECD?...why wouldn't they use the same jet fuel as the rest of the world...it makes sense...TQM has been around for years as well...is it supposed to be somehow sinister to ensure quality control for products and study user satisfaction of those products in order make better products?

I agree, it sounds like a win/win for the American people, because it's just that many more gallons of fuel we don't have to buy from outside sources...I just hope that they can make it financially viable...I'm in somewhat of an agreement with you I think, in that primary military usage could become a hidden government subsidy of synthetic fuel production.

Alternative fuels such as ethanol, biomass diesel, coal and shale, etc. seem to me to be rather transient power sources...I look for some expansion of solar, wind and geothermal, but I think the fuel of the future is hydrogen, particularly promising is the fuel cell, which as I'm sure you know, following combustion gives off oxygen and water as by products.

Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on June 11, 2008 at 2:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sam, to be absolutely correct, jet fuel comes off a higher place in the column than diesel. It has a lower boiling point, so you are right. In common usage we think of diesel, kerosene and jet fuel as being in the same part of the distillate cycle though each are specific hydrocarbons.

OCED and OECD are used interchangeably by some people, since OCED is easier to say, but by that I mean the Organization for Co-operative Economic Development.

About standardization under Total Quality Management, all the NATO nations are trying to make all their military machines run off fuels of the same specs and to get away from gasoline as much as possible. Even the motorcycles the Army uses, the Kawasaki KLR 650 has been converted to diesel which gives it the performance of a 450 cc bike instead of a 650, but makes fuel more available. We can steal fuel from any UN force and keep on going, and that is the point behind the standardization.

A particular country could elect to use more ethanol, like Venezuela. NATO and OCED want to act as one, down to many minute details in line with Agenda 21. What makes someone a "bad actor" on the world stage is not going along with being one of the guys. Like Sadam wanting to put more oil on the market and price it in Euros, and like Chavez wanting to do the same thing.

I don't really think of Rentech as a win/win, and I guess you know that. It is a very expensive process and involves a net loss of energy, so only by government subsidy can it survive. It will also have neglible impact. I am of the opinion that there is plenty of oil still available and that pollutants can be removed from the refined products for less than they can be removed from the Rentech process. Though the process was developed in the '20's there are only two or maybe three plants worldwide making fuel this way so the impact is neglible.

I don't get the hoopla about hydrogen either. It takes electricity to produce hydrogen and that takes carbon based or hydro based energy to produce. I just don't see wide scale conversion to hydrogen happening and I wonder about a city full of cars travelling in the heat island effect emitting water vapor. That sounds like an awfully steamy city to me but maybe it will work.

At any rate, peak oil has been predicted since about 1910. We've been running out of oil since then, and from 1910 till about 1970 or so the price of oil stayed relatively level. All this push for other energy comes from the "consensus" that the earth is in peril from man made gloabl warming and so we must reduce carbon emissions by 60 to 80 percent by 2050, and that is what Agenda 21 is all about. The most efficient way to get to that level is to eliminate 60 to 80 percent of the people, but that idea is not very popular.