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photo by Steve VanGunda
A carriage horse pulls a tour along State Street in the 90 degree weather Monday afternoon.
Carriage horses bred for work
Published Tuesday, June 24, 2008
NATCHEZ — As the heat of summer seems to intensify with each passing day, some working outdoors don’t seem to mind.
Those working hardest in the heat are the horses and mules employed by Southern Carriage Tours.
Each day the animals lug loads of sightseers back and forth across town, often in the hottest part of the day.
And while the labor may appear inhumane or excessive to some, the consensus seems to say otherwise.
George Vines owns Southern Carriage Tours and said the animals he uses were bred for labor.
“These horses were made for working,” he said. “They can handle it without problems.”
Attorney for the Natchez-Adams Humane Society Nan Garrison said she regularly gets calls from those concerned for the horses.
“We get constant complaints,” she said.
And Garrison and the carriage drivers actually have something in common.
The carriage drivers said they also regularly receive questions and concerns about the health and wellbeing of the animals.
“People always ask us if they are OK,” driver Cecil Folds said. “And they are OK.”
Folds and fellow driver Alan Gunn said the horses are watered regularly throughout the day and spend much of their downtime in the shade.
Gunn said when the horses are at the stables they spend much of their time just standing in the sun.
“That’s what they were bred to do,” Gunn said of the horses’ work.
Passerby Clinton Owens said he believes the carriage tours are good for the city and help the economy.
Owens said he does not have a problem with the work the horses do as long as they are cared for.
“They just need to take care of those horses,” Owens said.
Local veterinarian Dr. Byron Garrity said the hardworking horses are taken care of.
Garrity treats the carriage horses and said their owners are concerned with their care.
“It’s a business,” he said. “Those horses are their investments and they take care of them.”
Garrity said the carriage horses seen downtown are bred for working and cost more than average riding horses.
“Protecting those horses is in their best interest,” he said.
Garrity said he regularly receives calls when the horse’s owners think there could be a problem with a particular animal.
Garrity said when an animal is ill or unfit to work it is routinely given time off.
And the horses get more days off than many of their human counterparts.
Folds said the horses normally work one or two days with the one of two days off.
“They have a pretty good schedule,” Folds said. “And we’re only here from 9 to 4.”
Comments
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 7:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What about pasture? Do they ever get a chance to play in the grass and run in a field?
Posted by NoWireHangers (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I love the quaintness of the carriage horses too but I'm opposed to it. Go to this website if you want the full story on what is happening to horses, including draft horses, when they work pulling those carriages on pavement that can go up to 140 degrees F. It is cruel to have those horses working like that.
Holly Cheever, DVM who is an expert on carriage horses was willing to come to Natchez to discuss.
www.animalaid.org.uk/campaign/sport/omni...
Posted by mowen (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The web site listed isn't relevant to Natchez carriage horses. Just like with any thing, there are people that have no business doing what they are doing, be it a doctor, horse owner, sports coach, priest, parent ect…
I’ve known these guys that care for these horses a long long time and they DO care for these horses. The horses I’ve seen out there are taken A LOT better care of than a lot of horses in Adams County and Concordia Parish. If it’s hot pulling a carraige, it’s hot playing and running in a field (which last I heard these horses do get to do).
Posted by sandyman7 (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good Grief...Worrying about whether these guys take care of their animals...None of them appear to be starving, look well taken care of....But Not a word abour your 8 to 13 year old children working out in the hot sun to get ready for a ball game....Something doesn't seem right here.??
Posted by kpage (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
God made these critters to work for man. And the critters seem to know this. If you took one of these mules off the streets and into a pasture, he'd wonder what he did so wrong and feel useless and not loved... "why don't you need me anymore?". They LOVE to work...that's what they were bred to do and wouldn't be happy doing anything else.
Posted by NoWireHangers (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
www.animalrights.about.com/od/workingani...
www.satyamag.com/sept94/jordan.html
Posted by southernbelle (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I know the carriage drivers too. They are very humane to those horses . These guys know what they are doing and they love their horses . They probably take better care of their horses than some people do their children . Work is good for animals too . I think they like having things to do .
Posted by kpage (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
A good example...force a man to retire before his time and his health and well-being will suffer. Stick him in a nursing home and he will die quickly from lack of attention and something to do to feel useful. And that's not inhumane? I guess what I'm trying to say is if we take away the purpose of man or beast, we mess up the balance. Know what I'm saying? If we're to give beasts the same importance and consideration that we do toward humans, then this example should hit home.
Posted by NoWireHangers (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Natchez laws, Division 5. Horse-Drawn Carriage Tours(Ordinance No. 1998-1 & 5, 1-27-98) are
poor. There are laws on routes, drives, tour guide, passenger loading and unloading, diapering apparatus required, liability insurance required(which is incredibly low at $100,00 per person; Cleveland requires $1,000,000.00). On the Natchez books, there are NO LAWS PROTECTING THE HORSES. Go look.
Then take a look at Cleveland's Carriage Horse laws....
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/clevelandc...
I find it interesting how the City of Natchez issues "Certificates of Appropriateness" to operate Carriage Horse tours(Section 18-191)
Posted by NoWireHangers (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This site will make you cry...........
http://www.banhdc.org/carriage_horse_iss...
Another good site:
http://www.equineadvocates.com/carriage....
Posted by NoWireHangers (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This movie was a winner at a 2008 Film Festival.
www.blindersthemovie.com
I hope it comes to Natchez.
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 11:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I wonder why people are always willing to pick on a small business. I have been a carriage driver for 12 years and I've also been a firefighter for the city of Natchez for 11 years. Do you actually think I would go risk my life to save animals and people in one job and abuse them in the other? Also I have never seen one of the carriage horses abused, mistreated, or malnurished. These animals have survived the sunshine for tens of thousands of years and guess what they are still here.If they were turned out to pasture, guess what they would still stand in the sun. If we were in a busy city where these animals did a lot of work it would be different, but rarely do they have to do more than two or three tours a day.
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
DahlingILuvUButGiveMeParkAve the carriage tours in Natchez have a $1,000,000 insurance policy. The city may not require it, but like everything else we go the extra mile to protect our riders and our animals. The reason there are no laws about the protection of horses is because any one with one tiny drop of sense would see that we would never abuse an animal that we have spent hundreds of hours training.
Posted by Kaintuck (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If they have regular access to water, the carriage horses, and mules in particular, can take the heat. Mules were quite popular in the South for two reasons: they can viably consume a wide variety of food stuffs, and they handle heat well. I own saddle horses, and prefer them, as they are safer to work around, and look ten times better!
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Kaintuck, if you drive by the depot you will see a blue bucket that is used to give the horses water.
Posted by whiterose (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree those poor horses will survive standing there on 130 degree plus heat from the pavement, but their still uncomfortable. During earlier times when horse & carriage was the main transportation, there wasn't much pavement then. Take a drive through the country, and notice all the horses & cows enjoying a nice shade tree during the extreme heat of the day. These poor horses with their dark hair standing out on the hot pavement, sweaty & their head hanging down with a sad look on their face dont have that option of a shade tree. Start a fund raiser for them & contribute to a nice looking canvas awning for the horses to enjoy some shade from.
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
white rose If it were 130 degree heat the drivers would not be there. These horses fall asleep stading up that is why sometimes they hang their heads down. They fall asleep because they are bored by not giving many tours. If you look closely the driver is probally doing the same thing.
Posted by NoWireHangers (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The pavement radiates heat up to 140degrees F. The horses are
closer to the pavement and feel it. The heat makes them lethargic and they hang their heads.
Posted by firered (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What about all the guys who work outside all day in the heat? The guys who work on our roads to make them better so we won't complain? They are close to the pavement. They are out in the sweltering heat. Why not pick on their companies as well?
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 12:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
To the people that have taken up for the carriage drivers and owners I would like to say thanks. To those who are so concearned about these animals, have you even bothered to take a tour so that you could see how much these animals love their work. Every year there are a few people that do not like the carriage tours. We ride tourist year round and they love it. We bring people to town because we're an attraction. We are one of the few things for kids to do in Natchez. Did you know that on Sundays and holidays we are out there when most of downtown is closed. I work after 4 in the afternoons when I'm not at the fire department.Most of the stores and tour homes are closed downtown after 5, if visitors need directions or something to do we are there. We constantly promote business downtown and give good reviews of resturants and hotels. Its always easy to pick on us and say things that are not true, but if you want to know the truth come by and visit we will be glad to see you. By the way ask for one of our carrots that we keep under the seats and you can give the horse a treat. SAVE FUEL RIDE A MULE!!!!!!
Posted by NoWireHangers (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Not a good analogy. Humans get up and get fluid when they are thirsty. Horses have to rely on humans to get water for them when they are stuck at the Depot all day and pulling heavy carriages.
Who from the City of Natchez is regulating the Carriage Horse businesses? Who double checks to make sure you have at least $100,000 liability insurance? Who goes to the stables and checks to make sure the horses are in proper stables? Who from the City is monitoring the log books and making sure the horses aren't carrying too much weight? Who oversees the Carriage Horse businesses to make sure the few laws on the books for this business are being carried out?
Posted by NoWireHangers (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Carriage Horse Debate...is it inhumane or should it be allowed?
http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news/200...
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 1:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
DahlingILuvUButGiveMeParkAve I did not know it was the city's job to inspect all private business. I thought private actually meant private. By the way does someone from the government check everything where you work? These horses have plenty of food and water. They usually live to well in the late twenties, which is old for a horse. My boss retires them and finds people with pastures and families that will play and take care of these animals. It is clear that you know nothing about horses besides what you read on one - sided web sites. One of these sites has several references to PETA. These sites have nothing to do with the horses in Natchez. I appreciate you being curious about the well being of the animals. I too want the them to be taken care of that is why I work there! These animals like what they do and people like to ride them. They are well taken care of. You do not have to take my word for it, read the article, the owner, the vet, the the humane society, and a passerby all say they are well taken care of. I guess you know better than a vet what these horses need. Maybe you could come hold an umbrella over their head to keep the sun off of them.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 1:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My horses have shade trees and still stand out in the sun. I have taken the tour and the horse had to be woken up because he was so relaxed. A horse does not feel the heat as much as humans do, so we cannot equate the horse, wearing steel shoes, walking on hot pavement with a human walking in thin soles. It just is not the same. I love my horses, these drivers love theirs. All I wanted to know was do they ever get a vacation and play in a grassy pasture?
Posted by MayJay (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 1:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Natchez Carriage Horses are beautiful healthy animals compared to others I have seen. The owners & operators seem to love , appreciate & genuinely care for their animals. I don't understand what the fuss is about!
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
freedom42 thank you for standing up for us. Yes they get a vacation, there are more horses than drivers and each horse gets days off. We do not want to over work them or get them burnt out on work. The only one that works more tan the others is Hal. He is new and he needs the repetition of working to learn how to walk right and to learn to stand. I work him 3 to 4 nights a week and its from 4 to 9 at night. We do not have a pasture, we have a big fenced in lot. The horses get turned out in it to eat grass (less for us to mow), the constant movement of their body while they are eating the grass keeps them healthy because it keep their intestines from getting tangled. The natural movement to lean over take a bite and move up for another is good for them. The barn is like a flower, It has a building in the middle and stalls inside. The stalls each have their own lot which is pretty good sized.
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MayJay thank you too!
Posted by kpage (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A dear friend used to work for the carriage tours and he took me on a tour of their facilities. I was impressed. He spoke with much love and gentleness for these animals. I don't believe they'd hire anyone who didn't love those critters. I just don't believe there needs to be any investigation into the well-being of these animals. They are doing exactly what they were created to do and if any harm was being done to them, I'm sure a red light would have been turned on by now.
If we are to focus on injustices in this world, look further than a beast of burden...find a homeless person. Listen to their story, which is probably much more horrid than any imagined story about animal mistreatment.
Posted by firered (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You should see the horses across the street from where I live. Those people don't take care of them at all. There's really no room for them to run around and they are constantly out in the road. We've called the Sheriff's Dept. So many times that they know exactly where to look for them now. They get their horses taken away and go right out and buy some more to mistreat. Those are the animals you should be taking up for. Not animals that are clearly healthy and loved.
Posted by kpage (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
fire...remember the Vidalia lady who recently got into lots of trouble for not taking care of her horses on the levee? I wonder what happened with that situation. Now THAT is a serious problem that merits serious attention. The carriage horses are in heaven compared to those critters. I think I'll drive by Canal Street today and look at those sweet animals.
Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have to say I actually know guy2co and this is one of the finest men in this town and would nothing to hurt a human or an animal! ALL he does is help in this town and if some of you knew how much these guys "baby" those horses you'd calm down tremendously!
Posted by itsjustme (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Maybe Dahling needs to go down and help out for a day or two to see how things are being handled. Maybe that would put her mind at ease.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think that's a good idea, she should call and request a tour of the facility if she's concerned about it. I for one trust the opinions of the vetereinarian and the Humane Society but if it will help her sleep at night...go for it.
Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Right! Don't bitch about something you know NOTHING about!
Posted by fire39212 (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't know alot about horse but, Those horses downtown look very healthy to me.. I have never saw any of those people being mean to there horse. Why would anyone even assume something like that Look at them they are brushed and feed well it looks like...
you want to talk about heat..Let's talk about the men who work in the oilfield.Now thats some heat....It's hot they get salt water or oil all over them and even makes it hotter....
Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 2:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
These horses look fine, in Amish country I have seen buggy horses that looked like they could drop at any second.
Posted by fire39212 (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 2:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That's right beammeupscotty...
Posted by mowen (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
DahlingILuvUButGiveMeParkAve I would imagine I could find a website to support a theory that a green mouse pad will make my computer last longer. One of the owners brother, Pat, taught me to ride and take care of horses many years ago. Had I done something to hurt or put my or his horse in jeopardy he would have not wasted another minute on me. Those horses aren't only cared for, they are cared about. You are finding extreme cases to compare these horses to. You are looking at facts true, but not facts about these animals.
Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 3:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
couldn't have said it better mowen! Like I say, they actually "baby" these horses and anyone who has been around them will see that....driving by and making observations isn't knowing anything at all.
Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sayitloud - "Don't bitch about something you know NOTHING about" - Has that ever stopped you before? LOL
I do agree with you though. These horses are treated fine, there is nothing wrong with what they do, and I have never seen anything but nice treatment from the operators.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 4:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In all fairness I went to the sites dahling listed and they were shocking. However, we have to remember that is New York, and we are Natchez, that was in the north, we are in the South. Also when talking about the accidents, you have to take into consideration the amount of traffic, and the overall number of carriages compared to those here. I am probably the most vocal animal lover on here, but I think these horses are doing fine, and doing their job.
Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 4:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
no it hasn't mike8427 just like it hasn't stopped you from expressing your opinions.
Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It hasn't stopped me, but I try not to "bitch" or "sayitloud". I have found that I don't know it all, so I try not to always "sayitloud", ya know what I mean.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 6:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I went by there one time because my daughter wanted to stop and pet the horses. The man out there was super friendly and let Gracie "pet" on one of the calmer horses.
About six months later, me and my daughter (she's 3) were at the library doing our Saturday thing. She saw the horses come by with people actually riding on them. She had to go ride them. I am a poor, poor I say, college student so when he told me the ride for the full tour, I told him I couldn't afford it. I told him I was a native and already knew a lot of the history stuff. When he found out that my daughter was just wanting to ride, he offered me a shorter ride without the tour that became very affordable for me. He even went a little further up the street than he probably had to.
I hope he doesn't mind me saying this because not everyone should get a deal if they are rich tourists, but he knew it was extenuating circumstances. Customer service is rare these days so it goes a long way more than it use to. I have nothing but good things to say about my experience with this company.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 6:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I went by there one time because my daughter wanted to stop and pet the horses. The man out there was super friendly and let my daughter "pet" on one of the calmer horses.
About six months later, me and my daughter (she's 3) were at the library doing our Saturday thing. She saw the horses come by with people actually riding on them. She had to go ride them. I am a poor, poor I say, college student so when he told me the ride for the full tour, I told him I couldn't afford it. I told him I was a native and already knew a lot of the history stuff. When he found out that my daughter was just wanting to ride, he offered me a shorter ride without the tour that became very affordable for me. He even went a little further up the street than he probably had to.
I hope he doesn't mind me saying this because not everyone should get a deal if they are rich tourists, but he knew it was extenuating circumstances. Customer service is rare these days so it goes a long way more than it use to. I have nothing but good things to say about my experience with this company.
Posted by speaknoevil (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My husband drove a carriage for Southern Carriage Tours for many years, and the many years he worked with them he helped care for these horses. I have seen first hand how these animals are cared for . If people would learn from George Vines ,how to care for animals ,we wouldn't need the Humane Society . He not only cares for the horses the way they desreve to be cared for , he loves these animals. If you can not look at these animals and see that they are well cared for ,then maybe , just maybe you should be more concerned about your failing eyesight.
When my husband worked on an asphault machine , and would go through a pair of boots a month because they would melt , where were you people at then, did you stop and say something to his employer about being inhumane , no I think not .
One more thing I would like to add George not only cares for these horses very well , I have seen stray cats that would come up and he would feed them and love them just like he does his horses. He would never do anything inhumane to these animals and neither would the drivers!!!
Posted by ProNatchez (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 6:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Come on people. Do we have to beat this dead horse every summer?
Well. Someone had to say it.
Posted by speaknoevil (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 6:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Swapmeet ,those guys standing on that street corner are some of the nicest people you would ever want to meet . That is not the first time they have been so kind and I am sure it won't be the last . Anyone who has never taken a carriage tour I encourage them to do so . I thought I knew alot about Natchez until I took my first tour . There are little details that I learned from my carriage tour that I may have never learned had I not taken one. I have taken many, many since then and it never gets boring.
Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 6:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Got it mike8427.
Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 6:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
speaknoevil I agree with you about George, he is super nice to both animals and kids....he has a very kind nature about him and would do anything for someone in need. That's just the way he is and always has been. ALL those carriage drivers are the kindest guys.
Posted by wondertwin (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 6:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with you ProNatchez! Obviously the reporters at the Democrat have nothing better to do than to pick on George and his horses! I am sick and tired of people like ParkAve who don't know anything about animals but have a bunch to say. She (or he) should probably do something more constructive with their time such as volunteering their time and money to the Humane Society. Help those animals who actually need it and leave the others alone!!
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't think the Democrat was picking on anyone. There have been 3 articles this week so far about horses. I think it is a series of a sort, you know - horses in and around Natchez. They could come see my babies anytime, but they don't do anything special. LOL
The picking started when the park ave. lady wanted to ban the carriage rides because of the way things are in New York. And actually I think she is the only one picking.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 7:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
wondertwin: I agree with what you saying if the the ND had bad intentions. When I first read the article though and asked myself why they would write on that, I thought that maybe some people had been complaining to the ND and the ND thought they would clarify the situation. It didn't seem as if the ND was trying to make them look bad. I thought it gave George and them a platform to show how well they cared for their horses. I guess it's just two different ways of looking at it.
Posted by wondertwin (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 7:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The reason I feel that George is being picked on is b/c the article didn't begin with how beneficial the carriage company is to tourism. it seemed as if they were fishing for complaints, although everyone interviewed seemed pleased with the company. And the Democrat has in the past written unfavorable articles about the horses and the drivers.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok wondertwin. I wasn't trying to argue just offering another viewpoint. I didn't know there were past articles.
Posted by speaknoevil (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I took it the same way wonertwin did mainly because of this statement "Those working hardest in the heat are the horses and mules employed by Southern Carriage Tours." Well dealing with the heat is not a walk in the park for the carriage drivers either. Wondertwin you are100% correct ,this is not the first unfavorable article the Democrat has written.
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The last article was them picking on us saying that we need uniforms. Can you imagine the Natchez Democrat and the city of Natchez coming in your place of work and telling you to wear a uniform. It just seems like every once in a while they could have a positive article about what we do for the city and how we help the visitors. When everyone was talking about downtown staying open on weekends, we were already open.Thank you everyone for defending us, it's nice to know that people actually care about the horses and the drivers.
Posted by sayitloud (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
YOU were harder than most in this town and deserve our support and know you have it guy2co.
Posted by wondertwin (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 8:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
thanks speaknoevil! Seems like the Democrat could write something nice about a business that has been around for 18 years ( or longer). There aren't many places here that can say that.
Posted by blessed_momma (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 10:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey Uncle George! Hey Guy!
Hello to all.
Horses were created by God to work! If the horses werent happy, they would not cooperate! Noone can honestly say that ANY of Uncle George's horses arent well cared for. Look for yourself! George Vines is a WONDERFUL man. He has a HUGE heart! If you dont know him, you should get to know him! Uncle George would NEVER mistreat an animal! Look at those horses! Do they look malnurished to you? NO!!! George Vines is a very kind and loving man! He is my great Uncle and Im very proud to say that! Guy is a great guy as well! He too has a huge heart and does all that he can to help people! PLEASE, go meet Uncle George and Guy and look at the horses before you cast stones.
Guy, please tell your wife hey from me. Uncle George, I love you! God bless all!
Posted by blessed_momma (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 10:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey! I saw some squirrels running across the street on the 140 degree pavement! Someone better call the Humane Society! The squirrels are treating themselves inhumanely. Ha Ha. Come on! Horses are work creatures! Their hoofes are created to walk on the hot ground or cold ground. Hard ground or soft. Dahling, I dont mean to be ugly or disrespectful but if you are truly that concerned about the horses being thirsty, may I suggest that you stop and offer them a drink of water every time you pass? God bless!
Posted by djarum_black (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 11:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Carriage horses in most places ARE worked way too hard and not cared for properly. The horses in Natchez have it pretty good, but if you have knowledge of the conditions that most other "work horses" are subject to, it is understandable that someone would find it a terrible practice.
I'm NOT coming down on the carriage tours in Natchez. I think that the horses here are doing pretty well. All I'm saying is that I understand why someone would get upset over ANY carriage horses working, given how other horses in other areas are treated.
Posted by him2her (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 11:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
where was the humane society and all these people at when those 8 cows was left to drown below ip in the high water. those that was left drown i seen the cows dead.was anything done to the owners of the cows. those horses got it made someone cares about them. govt. not going to give them money for them if they die.
Posted by speaknoevil (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 11:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
djarum, No disrespect to you , I am speaking about the simple minded people you were referring to. If someone judges a person ( and there is alot of that in the MisLou area) for the way someone else does , I really feel sorry for them . Just because my neighbor may beat or mistreat their child don't mean that I will. Just because there is a very disturbed woman in Vidalia that hoards these animals, does not mean everyone else in the area is like that . I know what you say is true but it is so sad that such a good guy as George has to reap what other people have sown.
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 11:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
djarum_black I agree with you and i think all of the other drivers and owners do to. We do not want the mistreatment of any animals. As with everything in life there are exceptions to the rule, some people do not care about their animals. These people give the others a bad reputation, but to say that these horses are mistreated because of something that happened in NY is like saying all dog owners are cruel because some people fight pit bulls. I think it is cruel to treat any animal bad. I was raised up to respect people and animals and I can tell you so were my co workers.
Posted by blessed_momma (anonymous) on June 24, 2008 at 11:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Not to be rude or ugly.....(Im not judging!) to the persons that feel that the horses are being mistreated by George Vines, Do you also feel the urgency to speak against the cruelty to chickens that are raised to have their heads whacked off or to be electrocuted to death and bagged up to be bought and cooked and served?What about the cows who are raised to be slaughtered for steak and burgers and etc.. Is that cruelty too? No, thats the reason God created them. EVERY living thing has a purpose. And just in case, you dont eat meat, what about the poor farmer who has to plant and harvest in the heat in the cold in the rain? Is that inhumane? Every creature has a purpose. If the horses are sick and bony THEN i would agree that something needs to be done. But really.... The horses owned and worked by George Vines are fat and healthy. Please, stop and see for yourself. May God bless you all!
Posted by speaknoevil (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 12:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
blessed momma I agree , if you haven't met George or Guy (Happy as I like to call him), make a trip to the depot and sit and talk with them a minute it won't take long to see what nice people these men are . Go meet all of the carriage drivers ,they are all great men. While you're there make sure you let one of the drivers introduce you to the horses.
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 12:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
With the fuel prices like they are, some of our critics might be riding a horse drawn carriage themselves before too long! Actually we are enviromently friendly when you think about it.
Posted by blessed_momma (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 12:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
speaknoevil,I would like to thank you and everyone else that has said the wonderful TRUE things about Uncle George! I am proud that George Vines is my uncle. He is a good man. He has a heart of gold! My grandmother was his sister. George Vines is a very unselfish man. I agree that not everyone is good to their animals. BUT, just as speak and Guy have both said, Uncle George shouldnt be judged by other peoples actions. God bless you all!
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 12:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
good night and thank you for your support or criticism, either way I know that there are plenty of people who care about these animals like I and the other carriage guys do. No one wants the mistreatment of these animals and if there were any sign of it I would not work there. George Vines has found a way to give these animals a home a purpose and a friend, isn't that what we all want?
Posted by blessed_momma (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 12:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You are EXACTLY right Guy! Just sit back and watch! Great point!
Hey to you wife.
Posted by danielsbasketry (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 2:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I had a shop in the Depot for six years and the horses stood just outside my window. They were treated very well. The buggy drivers were harder on themselves than on their animals. One of the horses trotted to the tune his driver whistled. To hear the horse doing "Little brown Jug" with his hooves was a treat. You could tell the horse was a showman and a happy one at that. Many times I watched the drivers start to eat their sandwiches at lunch. Usually the horses got half along with their apples and carrots. They were watered frequently and rotated often when it got hot outside. They know the routines as well as the drivers and won't let him shortchange you on history. They know how long the spiel should last. When the roads were being resurfaced, the drivers came in my shop to study the Natchez books and devise new routes to take to protect the horses' hooves. My shop has moved up on Main Street now, but I still see the horses often and know that they are well taken care of.
Posted by momoftwo23 (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I used to sit in my aunt's shop Daniel's Basketry and watch the horses. I remember how well treated they were. Also, the drivers were very nice men. They would let us come out and feed and pet the horses. The were given water very often. I have been on many carriage rides when I would get tired of sitting in the shop and I loved every single one of them. These men would never abuse nor mistreat those horses.
Posted by BurningStar (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 2:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes, a horse is a working animal BUT: Horses are NOT meant to STAND STILL on hard, hot pavement ALL DAY, breathing the fumes of auto tailpipes. - I don't care what you say!!!
I worked near those horses for about a year- I could see them from where I worked. They didn't get water ALL DAY, as they stood there, motionless, except for picking up their feet, to switch the weight around. Waiting for people to carry around. They SURELY didn't get any type of food, because they would've had to crap, then.
I'll stop myself there and try not to say anything about the guys who run the horses. At least they don't beat them.... but they aren't nearly as nice as I've seen them described.
Posted by speaknoevil (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 2:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BurningStar, These horses do get water and the do get food . As far as them having to "crap" , its not like the animal has to excuse themselves to the restroom. They have a bag on each one of the carriages that catch all the "crap" . And as some people may find this is common with the horses they are full of "IT".
Posted by mowen (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
NO ONE can say a thing against those guy’s character. I’m sure that just like anyone they have their days, but they are good guys. The horses are rotated out, the guys work longer than the horses. From what I remember if the horses stood a while they walked them around the block. I work in the depot a few years and NEVER saw them without water. Horses that are kept in stalls usually eat around 6 in the morning and again at 6 at night. During the day I saw them eat apples, carrots, ice cream, snow cones.... And they always had water. I guess my window was at a different angle than BurningStar’s.
Posted by overthehill60 (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 8:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't believe the horses are mistreated, but they do look awfully sad on hot day just standing there.
As for the treats they have during the day I'm sure they would be much happier grazing in a cool pasture.
Posted by fire39212 (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 10:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Shoot my husband looks sad on a hot day outside working as well as my son and son-in-law do...I do not see anyone running to there job bashing them.....
Those horses are beautiful......
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 10:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My horses always look sad until it's feed time. Then they look sad because I'm starving them. NOT. They are so fat it feels like my feet are sticking out when I ride.
I remember the horse that trotted to Little Brown Jug. His name was Cody and he was a paint.
Posted by blessed_momma (anonymous) on June 25, 2008 at 11:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I couldnt help but to laugh as I read the comment above by burning star. Bless your angry lil heart. I never said that horses were meant to breath fumes of tail pipes all day. The horses arent out there ALL DAY long. 4 or 5 hours isnt all day. Im sorry that you dont care what I say. Im sorry that you got so angry. God bless you! I pray that you have a better day.
Posted by BurningStar (anonymous) on June 26, 2008 at 1:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They were out there for 6 to 8 hours a day when I saw them, they were NOT getting "rotated" and they DID NOT get ANY water, from the very CLEAR view I had.
And Blessedmama - I wasn't speaking directly to you.
Speaknoevil - I know they have a bag for "it" but I'm sure it's nice if they don't do "it" all day, or AS OFTEN. I never saw them getting fed. Maybe they do now? I wouldn't come on here and straight LIE like that. If I had ever seen them feed or water those horses, I'd say so.
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on June 26, 2008 at 11:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Horses? what aboutt those fat out of shape, cigarette smoking carriage drivers? isn't any one worried bout them?
Posted by speaknoevil (anonymous) on June 26, 2008 at 11:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Burningstar ,did you stand by your window the whole time the carriages where out there? I doubt it . Just because you didn't see it don't mean it didn't happen.
Humorme, it says alot about you ,talking about someone's appearence . Your statement was not meant in concern , it was meant to cut down these men . Wasn't you taught in grade school its not nice to make fun of others? Apparently not!!!
Posted by guy2co (anonymous) on June 27, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Burningstar you have not seen the horses being feed on the street for a reason. They are feed each morning and in the afternoon. It does not make sense to bring a feeding trough, oats, and hay on the street. I can assure you the horses get plenty of food and that the bag behind the horse is always full. If you don't believe me I'll be glad to let you empty it any day of your chosing. To write on here about someone else's character just goes to show what type of person you are. I hope that one day you will learn to not be so mean spirited. To hide behind a screen name and make fun of someone's character must get you a lot of respect in life. I hope you go far with that! I have clearly done everything I can to prove that the horses are treated great and that they have good working conditions.I have asked for people to not only take my word, the vet's word, the humane society's word, and a passerby's word, but to also come check for yourself. We are out there everyday, come check for yourself. Several people already have and they do not see anything wrong. These animals are like our pets. We spend a lotof time with them and sometimes get attached, in a way they are our friends.
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